Topic: Question re: food/caloric intake, esp in Protomyxzoa
BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
Diet has always had a major impact on my symptoms.
I am carbohydrate intolerant due to poor blood sugar regulation. Following a very low carb diet dramatically improves my symptoms.
I may react to amylose with inflammation, as suggested by Dr. Shoemaker's model of biotoxin illness. I cannot tolerate grains. I can have small amounts of sugar in a dairy/fat medium, like ice cream or a mocha. I cannot have sugar in grains or starches. I become incredibly ill.
Fats are no problem.
Babesia has always been my problem pathogen. When I had an 18 month Babesia remission, I could eat whatever I wanted. I still had Lyme and Bart.
Here's the weird part:
I had a complete remission in summer of 2004, years before I was diagnosed. I had a light load in grad school. I relaxed and exercised. I ate very little (for no particular reason, just wasn't hungry) and lost quite a bit of weight.
My symptoms disappeared. With no treatment whatsoever.
The low stress may have been a factor, but I think the major factor was my diet. I was calorie-restricted without trying to be.
There is tons of research on restricting calories and reducing inflammation. It is a proven correlation, with significant reduction in all classes of inflammatory molecules.
It is also known to increase longevity, probably due in part to this mechanism.
Throughout the chronic portion of my illness, skipping meals and/or eating lightly has always improved my symptoms.
In the early years, I was hypoglycemic and needed to eat constantly. I still lost ridiculous weight.
Here is my question:
Obviously, reducing inflammation will improve our symptoms. Duh.
But what about the direct relationship between food intake and pathogen population?
Dr. F says Protomyxzoa reproduces rapidly in fats and uses them to make biofilms. And patients improve on the low fat diet. Fair enough.
What about plain old calories? Does this stupid protozoan just like to eat? Fat is calorie dense. But so are simple sugars.
I eat cheese and feel the same. I eat grains and feel like crap. I eat sugar and want to die.
I eat nothing and feel great.
WTF am I feeding?!!! Because it seems like more than blood sugar and inflammation!!
I have not been able to repeat the great non-food experiment of 2004, as I need plenty of food to take antibiotics.
What have others experienced, just in terms of food/caloric intake? How does amount of food and number of calories relate to your symptoms?
People with Protomyxzoa - What foods make you better or worse? Do your symptoms go crazy with fat? What about sugar? And just plain old calories?
People with Babesia - Food = good or food = bad? (Humor here.)
Please no food lectures. I know how to eat. I'm trying to find the direct connection between food and pathogen reproduction, or something very similar.
BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
On malaria and caloric intake:
Aust J Exp Biol Med Sci. 1983 Oct;61 ( Pt 5):589-97.
Interactions of protein calorie malnutrition, malaria infection and immune responses.
Bhatia A, Aggarwal A, Sehgal S, Chakravarti RN, Vinayak VK.
Abstract
The course of parasitaemia and certain immune responses in protein or calorie-deficient albino rats infected with Plasmodium berghei (NICD) were studied.
Wide variations observed in the course of parasitaemia in protein-deficient animals were (a) prolonged prepatent period, short patent period with low parasitaemia (50% of animals), (b) short prepatent period and an inability to resolve the infection (14% of animals) and (c) no patent parasitaemia at any stage of observation (23.5% of animals).
The calorie-deficient animals had significantly lower parasitaemia (P less than 0.05) compared with well fed animals.
Protein deficiency resulted in depression of T-dependent immune responses in uninfected as well as P. berghei-infected animals.
The outcome of the parasitaemia in protein- as well as calorie-deficient animals seems to be the combined result of deficiencies of certain essential nutrients, proteins and calories in the diet as well as the immune responses of the host.
Multiple factors involved, but this stood out: "The calorie-deficient animals had significantly lower parasitaemia (P less than 0.05) compared with well fed animals."
surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
You didn't mention gluten- instead grains make you sick, low carb better-
Have you tried 100% gluten free? Gluten's a biggie on creating inflammation (a lot of us)
Too much carbs/ or a day filled with eating a lot, my stomach gets backed up, and I pay in pain. Even with digestive enzymes.
I don't know about the fat- this one doesn't affect me- Sugar = bloating and yeast merry-go-round.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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nefferdun
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Member # 20157
posted
Restricting fat keeps me in remission. Period. I like to tell myself I can eat fat and loosen up on the diet restrictions but whenever I do (like the holidays) I get sick again.
It is not an overnight thing. You can't expect to see immediate results the day after you restrict your dietary fats to 15 grams. It takes months, but it is like coming out of a fog - things lift. You get better.
Sugars don't bother me now because I am not on antibiotics. I eat natural sweeteners like honey and maple syrup. I eat a huge amount of food. I am not calorie restricted, that is for sure. I eat more than I ever have in my life but I have lost 20 pounds and am at my ideal weight
I eat carbs, lots of them, but I do not eat processed carbs and I don't eat high on the glycemic index. I eat whole wheat and I have non fat milk. I am ok with all of that. I am not ok with the fat, any kind of fat.
My brain function is as good as it was before I got sick. I have most of my energy back. I am certainly not starved for "good fats" or "proper amounts of protein". I look younger, I feel well. I have a plan for my life again other than the plan of trying to live one day at a time.
I am not well however because this remission is tenuous - completely dependent upon how much fat I restrict myself to. When I eat too much fat, symptoms return in about 3 days. I get headaches, twitching, nerve pain, insomnia and frequent urination. If I ignore the first symptoms, it all comes back on and it comes back quick.
I KNOW protomyxzoa is what is keeping most people sick. I KNOW it can only be controlled with a low fat diet. I see no hope for people who have it but continue eating high amounts of fat. I read everyone's complaints about staying sick while on massive amounts of abx or anti-malarials - something I know all to well from my own experience.
I don't expect anyone to recover until they come out of denial about protomxyzoa and follow the diet. The most outspoken opponents of the diet are the people who have been sickest the longest and accept their disability as a way of life. How can anyone offer advise that obviously is not working?
There is no cure. You can only control it. Following the low fat diet is how you control it. The choice is feel ok most of the time or feel horrible - maybe even die.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
Well, I have been off all antibiotic and herbal treatments since January, and I am doing pretty good, and I don't eat low fat.
I had a low positive protomyxzoa test- all that said or means: Detection of biofilm.
I treated biofilm for a long time during active Lyme treatment. I never had babesia, maybe this factors in.
My 2 treating LLMD's advised me NOT to go low fat. And, since I weigh 100 pounds, I agree.
I am more active and engaged than I have been in years, and have improvement in short term memory and neuro sharpness after treatment.
No body pain issues. Yes, my digestive system is not 100%. But honestly, I don't know too many people
Lyme or not, that have perfect intestines. Perhaps that's GMO. I am also 100% gluten free.
I do my best to remain blatant sugar free, because for me, who used to have a large yeast issue,
those nasty little yeast buggers will multiple and feed if I pour sugar on them. So I try to keep them down and in check.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
P.S. I did treat protomyxzoa and parasites. I was on Ivermectin for months, did rounds of Albendazole, Alinia,
pyrantel pamoate, Tindamax 2 weeks on/ off for 7 months, rounds of Humaworm, some time on salt/C, other herbs, etc.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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nefferdun
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Member # 20157
posted
Surprise, I wish I could eat fat. I wonder why you are ok eating it and most people with PR aren't. Maybe you just didn't have it as badly as the rest of us so your immune system can take care of it.
Or maybe it was all the treatment you did for parasites. I did not take that many drugs - just ivermectin for about two months and then only when I felt symptoms.
If there is anything that can get rid of it, I would sure like to know what it is!
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
Maybe I am not eating as much of it- again, I am a small person (always have been, about 100 pounds now)
But only eat meat for dinner- usually lean, a lot of chicken- and if red meat, not a huge portion, and hate 'fatty' meat-
But I don't pay any attention to fat grams, and don't eat 'low fat' marked items- it's enough work with the GF, and I really don't cook
But I do eat cheese, Mexican type foods, so...Maybe it is the parasite and biofilm treating I did.
By the way, I am not swinging from the chandeliers partying all night ;-). (and I don't drink, ever)
But, I am exercising, and have had a lot of improvement. I was chronic for so long, I really don't know what
100% looks like for me.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
The LLMD that my kids are seeing tests for protomyxzoa and treats with a rotation of artemisinin, ivermectin, alinia, etc.
One of my kids was positive for it and is now on artemisinin (among other things). We are doing a low fat, gluten-free diet as well.
Posts: 348 | From NJ | Registered: Sep 2011
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nefferdun
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Member # 20157
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Bitten, what other drugs does your LLMD prescribe for your kids besides ivermectin, alina and art? Could you pm me specifics?
I am off all drugs right now. Occasionally when I feel symptoms coming back I take 6 mg of ivermectin.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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