BoxerMom
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posted
Here are my faves. Feel free to add.
Strong: Artemisinin and its derivatives, Artesunate and Artemether Grapefruit Seed Extract Byron White A-Bab and A-P Complex Beyond Balance Bab-1, Bab-2 and P-Z Cryptolepsis Sida Acuta Black Walnut Hull (antiparasitic) Colloidal Silver (not an herb) Most antiparasitics, especially antiprotozoans
Less strong but still very good: Nutramedix Enula Nutramedix Quina Jernigan antimicrobial tinctures (strong if dosed high) Most antifungals
Some killing activity: Coriolus mushroom Neem Meriva Curcumin Quinine (again, it's the dose)
Most herbs are synergistic with each other, meaning they boost each other's effectiveness. They are also synergistic with antibiotics and protect against resistance.
Work up SLOWLY in dosing, especially in the strong category. Consider one or more from each category, depending on how much killing activity you can tolerate.
You must detox when treating Babesia.
ALWAYS take probiotics one or more hours after killing herbs. The stronger the herb, the more impact it has on the gut flora.
Please feel free to add your own experiences. There are many herbs I've never tried, and many I've probably forgotten.
seekhelp
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posted
Thank you SO much BoxerMom. I truly appreciate this.
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MannaMe
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posted
What are the ways you detox?
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BoxerMom
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posted
Nothing unusual.
Sweating is my best detox. FIR sauna. Exercise.
Any movement that gets circulation and lymph moving. I have a Chi swing machine. Some like rebounding. Swimming, yoga, pool aerobics.
Glutathione. Alka-Seltzer Gold. Lemon water is too acidic for my stomach, but I can drink some.
CSM has been rough but very effective. Apple pectin, too.
I'm trying Diatomaceous earth and liking it.
Previously chlorella, activated charcoal.
I can't take detox baths as our bathroom is in a construction holding pattern. But I've heard they are incredible, esp when done regularly.
While I do not agree with all the herbs on your list I think herbs are a good addition to meds as you mentioned. Do not think herbs alone are enough for babs.
I would also add that enzymes such as wobenzyme and things such as lumbrokinase for hypercoagulation are an essential part of any babesia treatment.
If you can not take a full bath then you can simply soak your hands and/or feet in a tub of water and add Epsom salts, baking soda, salt substitute (for the potassium) and powdered mustard (for improved circulation)to the water.
Other herbs that I feel could be somewhat helpful include noni and the new one Buhner mentioned in his seminar. Also ECGC (green tea extract) if the dose is high enough.
Also for detox the herb celandine as described in Buhner's seminar. Hubby used this to lower his bilirubin. It is a very strong herb and just a few drops may work.
Also need to add that I agree with Keebler that liver support is essential with babs treatment -- milk thistle and the herb dan shen are both good. Also spleen support -- red root tincture is the best for that.
Artemesia and its derivatives need to be pulsed -- different docs suggest different pulsing schedules. But in my opinion all other babs treatment needs to be continuous for a minimum of 4 months. The herbs or meds can be rotated as long as you stay on continuous treatment. I do not think pulsing meds or herbs for babs will work.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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BoxerMom
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posted
Yeah, I'm not trying to offer a comprehensive treatment plan. Just information based on what I've tried.
I could not get to remission with just herbs, but some people do. This disease has so many variables, it's absurd.
We have limited access to care and limited resources, so every bit we can glean from others' experiences is helpful.
CD57
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posted
Bea, what is considered a high enough dose of EGCG? Looks like this stuff doesn't really get absorbed into the bloodstream.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Cd57 -- search for the thread I posted about the Buhner seminar and babesia for dosing of ECGC. According to Buhner adding quercetin helps with absorption of ECGC.
One of hubby's former LLMD's had him on quercetin for awhile and I remember he said that supplement is not well absorbed -- but I can't remember what the brand was that he suggested was the best. Quercetin is supposed to be good to help reduce allergies. Hubby was not taking it as part of babs treatment at the time he took it.
I don't think he ever took ECGC and quercetin together.
I do remember at least one ER visit when he tried to ramp up the dose of ECGC too quickly. Think he was on malarone and doxy or mino and I really can't remember what else at the time.
Pretty sure a search of LymeNet will bring up several previous discussions of ECGC.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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I added my comments for the simple reason that I think many people do not take high enough doses of herbs to be effective if they rely solely on herbs. Also it can be so hard to tell which infection is producing which symptom that especially people who self treat may not stick to babesia treatment long enough.
Hubby never took either the Byron White or Beyond Balance herbs, but he did try everything else on your list at some point during his 12 year illness.
Bea Seibert
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BoxerMom
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MichaelTampa
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posted
I am currently taking Cryptolepis and Brucia Japonica. This was something that Bea reported that Buhner mentioned as a good combo.
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BoxerMom
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posted
Michael - thanks!
I also found benefit from Quercetin and Vinpocetine, but only when my pathogen load was very high.
I liked them mostly for the mast cell stabilizing (Quercetin) and cerebral vasodilation (Vinpocetine).
Brucea javanica has demonstrated a variety of antitumoral, antimalarial, and anti- inflammatory properties.
As a Chinese herbal medicine, Brucea javanica is mainly used in the treatment of lung and gastrointestinal cancers. Pharmacological research has identified the main antitumor components are tetracyclic triterpene quassinoids.
However, most of these active components have poor water solubility and low bioavailability, which greatly limit their clinical application. Nanoparticulate delivery systems are urgently needed to improve the bioavailability of Brucea javanica.
This paper mainly focuses on the chemical components in Brucea javanica and its pharmacological properties and nanoparticulate formulations, in an attempt to encourage further research on its active components and nanoparticulate drug delivery systems to expand its clinical applications
It is expected to improve the level of pharmaceutical research and provide a strong scientific foundation for further study on the medicinal properties of this plant.
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posted
Does anyone know if we are supposed to take the herbs in water and if so, why? Does it affect how our body absorbs the herbs?
I've just had a nasty flare up of Babs when we started Bab3. Herxs so bad, was taken off. Won't do that ever again. Suffocating from inside is not what I ever want to do again. Starting Crytoplus, Arteminison SOD, Aligno, and Yarrow Root Stem to get what dr thinks is new species that Alinia, Mepron, Zithro, and Omnicef didn't get.
Any suggestions on timing and how to take, I'd appreciate. I don't have much appetite and am just trying to get things in to my system at this point. Drinking only lemon water, trying to sweat(getting cool outside, not helping) just ordered FIR sauna.
Posts: 1 | From Chapel Hill | Registered: Sep 2013
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posted
Buhner suggests taking herbs in either decoction (tea) or tincture. Each method extracts different chemicals, and then stomach acid can extract more as well.
Because of their alcohol content, alcohol-based tinctures can be absorbed through the mucous membranes of the mouth.
If you are going to be concentrating on herbals, I would suggest getting 2 of Buhner's books: The first, "Healing Lyme Disease Coinfections: Complementary and Holistic Treatments for Bartonella and Mycoplasma" explains a lot about many of the herbs he uses, not just for bart/myco, but for other things as well (I have heard that he has a babs book coming out next year).
The second is the updated version "Herbal Antibiotics, 2nd Edition: Natural Alternatives for Treating Drug-resistant Bacteria" in which he explains in detail the making of decoctions, tinctures and glycerites.
Thanks for the heads up on Babs3. We may begin a babs protocol in the future. Although our daughter tested negative for it she did very well on malarone, which keeps me thinking "protozoan infection".
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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GretaM
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I have a hard time with alcohol so I put my tinctures in a glass of quite warm water. (not boiling, but nice bathtub kinda temperature warmth).
Then I let it sit for 12 hours. Most of the alcohol evaporates.
This may not be the right way but I can't handle the alcohol.
I take the "tea" away from my abx, and away from a big meal.
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Rivendell
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GretaM
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Started A-BAB and CSA yesterday.
Pushing this up so it is easy for me to reference the next few days Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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Judie
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I take artimesia annua tincture (30 drops 2X a day). I try to drink grapefruit juice or take a break once every month or two for a week so the enzymes that make it not absorb go down.
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Keebler
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- Similar thread with some complementary discussion:
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