posted
Anyone used this or hear of it? I'm trying it for herniated discs, but feel as though I'm herxing. Not sure if I should continue, as it was recommended by the gentleman who runs and owns the local herb/vitamin place, not an LLMD.
Thanks for any thoughts!
-------------------- Getting older is when we would rather not have a good time than have to get over it. - Oscar Wilde Posts: 386 | From Radnor, PA - where the ticks run free | Registered: May 2006
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Keebler
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posted
- My advice: stop it.
Drink lots of water. Just in case.
Can you post the brand name and maybe find a link to list the ingredients of the brand you have?
Is the packaging intact? Do the pills or capsules look good?
Are you absolutely positively certain that this is from a quality source? The owner of that store, is he a trained naturopathic doctor or does he hold any degree in the field?
There has been a reported problem with one batch, but I cannot take the time to sort out the validity of that right now.
What you have might be quite fine but if you feel worse from it and you were taking it only to feel better, I would stop. Stop and study a bit more more either about this &/or other options.
Even if not to a LL ND, for any herbs it is best to be guided by a ND or someone with a formal education.
Independent vitamin and supplements shops have their place and can be valuable. It's just that some of their products are not always the best and are more prone to fakes and contaminants. And the owner may not even be aware if this happens.
Full consideraton of your diagnosis and complete thought to all possible treatment options is also nearly impossible in such a setting.
To help feel better from this "event" - but I'd wait a while just to be sure you don't get an overlap of the other herb. Water will help that move out right now - and some food. This evening, then:
. . . Tests conducted by the SCFDA found that packaging of Yunnan Baiyao (云南白药 or Yunnan white medicine) pills and capsules was faulty and that defective seals led to water contamination.
In addition to rendering the medicine ineffective, the tested products were found to be tainted with mold. . . .
Its exact formula is a closely guarded secret. The company website mentions that the steroid progesterone is in the formula, in addition to several saponins, alkaloids and calcium phosphate.[2]
The separate herbal ingredients are reportedly made up by thirteen separate teams, none of whom have any knowledge of the ingredients the other teams are mixing.
The individual mixed components are then combined by a further team, who have no knowledge of what constitutes them but knows the proportions in which they are combined.
In December 2010, purported lists of ingredients were published on the websites of Amazon.com and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).[6]
The list supposedly containing eight active ingredients of a liquid form of the drug were found in a document published on the FDA website[7] that contains correspondence between the FDA and a distributor of the drug.
Ingredient lists were also present in the product information sections for the powdered and capsule forms of the drug on Amazon.com.[8][dead link]
The proportions and exact manufacturing processes are still unknown. . . .
--------- - full entry at link above.
back to poster's voice now:
If your package contains a full list of ingredients and the amounts, that would be of help but, according to one of the earlier articls, some ingredients may not be declared.
The steroid progesterone, is of concern. That may be fine, in certain amounts but you'd want to know more about the source and EXACT amount. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
(Be aware that those in some categories can have zero or various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients, . . . -
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Keebler
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- In the meantime, from a search at this excellent Chinese Medicine research site for: herniated disc -
Find a ND (of course, if possible, try to find a LL ND)
You might also seek out an ACUPUNCTURIST, they are trained in herbal medicine, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
You're amazing. I'll spend some time tonight looking at these links.
The packaging was intact, and I do trust this gentleman as he has been trained as an herbalist and also has two Master herbalists with whom he consults. I was there for supplements to help my Hashimoto's and mentioned my back pain. He used the yunnan baiyao himself a few years ago for herniations and did really well, so I thought I'd give it a whirl.
Nope. No ingredients. I think I'll stop and swing by to see him tomorrow and see what he thinks.
Thanks again for all the links!
-------------------- Getting older is when we would rather not have a good time than have to get over it. - Oscar Wilde Posts: 386 | From Radnor, PA - where the ticks run free | Registered: May 2006
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Keebler
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posted
- Well, glad to hear of the shop owner's education and background. You can breathe easier on that count, then. Still, he won't have the time to fully assess your case but at least you can hope his supply of good quality and his advice has good foundation.
It's important to know that some instances of contaminants can by valid and some not. And/or that some may have been just an isolated instance but then someone wants to drag that into more turmoil.
Searching this at Amazon, can't find a list of ingredients. FWIW, I would never - ever - take anything unless I could have a full list -- and I prefer exact amounts of each (although that can be tricky even with some excellent brands, understandably, wanting to protect their business).
So, back to Amazon - linking directly to reviews, search the term, "ingredient" and that took me to a review from a name I recognized.
. . . It contains several forms of tienchi ginseng (hemostatic, heart tonic, anticholesterol) an herbal popularly called "dragon's blood" used for reducing bruises, myrrh and a few other astringent herbs. . . .
[Keebler's interjection: all those sound fine from what I know, as a amature - but what are the "other" ingredients - and something is making you not feel well with what you have there, so . . . ]
To figure out if that customer knows what she is talking about, click onto her bio:
- Letha Hadady: "the best-known blonde in Chinatown" (Newsday)
Letha, raised in New Mexico, sang opera in Europe, and has a Masters in psychology from the University of Paris.
She is nationally certified in acupuncture (NCCAOM) after studying at Tri-State Institute of Traditional Chinese Medicine, New York and the Institute of Acupuncture and Meridian in Shanghai.
The San Francisco Chronicle wrote, �Letha Hadady, one of the nation�s leading experts on natural Chinese remedies . . . -
[ 07-18-2013, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
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posted
- I've gotten stomach upset and even a sort of flu feeling from MYRRH. It just doesn't agree with me if the proportion is too high, or on an empty stomach.
Maybe you just need more food in your stomach before taking.
Some types of ginseng can be far too excitatory for those with chronic illness. If so, food can help but so can a calming agent added (if this formula is so good in other ways to help with the discs).
I would still not take another until further examination.
From that first link above, ask the shop owner about this:
. . . Hong Kong authorities ordered a comprehensive recall of the drug maker's products on February 5 due to safety concerns.
The following day the corporation released a statement disclosing some of its products contain organic components extracted from plants of the genus Aconitum � referred to collectively as 'wolf's bane'.
Plants of this genus contain the toxin aconitine, which has been used for centuries as a poison by hunters around the world. In strong enough doses, aconitine causes an accelerated heartbeat that can lead to cardiac arrest. . . .
--------------- Key term "in strong enough doses" . . . more study is needed to fully figure all this out yet it's something to consider. A tiny amount could cause issues for some folks.
And you have the right to know EXACTLY all that in this. That's a key point here. -
[ 07-18-2013, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
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- When you stop by to talk with the shop owner tomorrow, take the package of pills with you so he can look at them. Fakes do get by. Even if all seems to look okay, he might be able to spot any differences.
You'd also want to be sure that a package of bad batch did not make its way back onto the market. See if you can find any date stamps.
You could also request a refund and a different approach (one where you can see all ingredients).
You'd want to search out several educational sites for each ingredient, of course. For a start:
"other" ingredients? - hope you can find out more.
GLUTEN can be included in some herbal formula, so can some dyes (although sometimes from plant source). Whatever you take should be gluten-free, of course. -
[ 07-18-2013, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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posted
I returned to the shop today and explained what had happened. The owner was surprised and was very quick to refund my money for the unopened bottles I had purchased. As accommodating as he was, I'm not sure I'd go back without a specific product request.
I'm feeling better now having dropped the herb and added back the houttuynia tincture that I had stopped taking. I did exactly what you shouldn't and changed two things at the same time, so I'm not sure if the herb caused the increased back pain or if dropping the houttuynia did. At any rate, the herb made me feel strange, so that had to go.
Thanks for the links. Great material!
-------------------- Getting older is when we would rather not have a good time than have to get over it. - Oscar Wilde Posts: 386 | From Radnor, PA - where the ticks run free | Registered: May 2006
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Keebler
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- I always felt better with Houttuynia, I used the Hepapro HH formula (regular dose). It's an excellent herb, indeed.
Glad you are feeling better. I hope you can find a good expert to help with your back issue. -
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Keebler
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Native Americans also used boneset in the treatment of aches and pains of the structural system and in the healing of bones that had been broken. Many of the early uses of boneset were in the form of poultices or topical plasters. . . . -
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Keebler
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