posted
my pain management doctor wants to do si injections as a diagnostic tool to see if that's where my pain is coming from. He
said he has to do at least two with good results and then possibly doing oblation. I spoke to my LLMD this morning to get his take
on this. He said that the injections for fine but he would wait on the oblation. I asked him if it was okay to do the injections
because it does contain steroids. He said this was fine because it was localized but I'm very nervous.They said they could do
injections without the steroid.does anybody have any experience with these injections or have any input thank you.
Posts: 67 | From Delaware | Registered: Jun 2013
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- No. No. No. A million times: No.
Either way, no. For several reasons.
That doctor is not likely an ILADS educated LLMD at all. Steroid injections are NEVER localized.
Any steroids must be avoided - even skin creams - unless a life threatening emergency.
Any good LLMD would also never allow such an invasive and futile diagnostic procedure just "to see where the pain is coming from."
Pain comes from everywhere with lyme, it can rotate all over the place, too. There are so many OTHER ways to approach the pain, so many.
First, treat infections. Second: magnesium, fish oil and antioxidants to help reduce inflamation. Third: safe body work by a truly LL professional. Forth: assess body mechanics. Fifth: assess food influences.
And there are other things to consider as well such as exposures to mold or chemicals, etc. Foam mattresses that offgas or can get moldy, etc.
Please review the credentials and experience of the doctors you work with. If they don't know this vital point, they will likely mess up in other big ways, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Find a new LLMD because this one is clueless.
Any steroid injection (or pill) goes all over the body and it will bring you down. If you do this, you may never be able to get well. (aside from the fact that it will flare up your symptoms worse than before)
Do NOT do it!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- LymeToo and I were both typing at the same time. The echo is loud and clear.
Please listen, to literally save your life, get a real LLMD. This doctor is not one. Drop that pain management doctor. A new, real LLMD will have suggestions for pain management.
What kind of doctor has to stick needles and harmful chemicals in you to diagnose? Not a good one.
Topic: Minor surgery and steriods - complications from steroids that were not supposed to be administered. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I'm not sure anyone has yet taken the time to explain what it's like to have lyme. This article can be sad, still, it's vital to know the range of things that lyme can affect -- so that you can roll with the punches but also not have other doctors who are ignorant lead you into harm.
After skimming this article, be sure to then see the links below for what can help along the way.
LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Acupuncture can be very helpful to ease pain and also helps increase circulation, reduce spasms, etc.
When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
(Be aware that those in some categories can have zero or various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients (be sure to NEVER, EVER let anyone twist neck or spine, very dangerous with lyme).
Etc. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
This is an iliads llmd. I did check his credentials.
Posts: 67 | From Delaware | Registered: Jun 2013
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I doubt he is, really. Does he attend all the ILADS conferences? Does he follow Burrascano's guidelines? That clearly states: avoid steroids.
He may say he is an ILADS member but he does not know what he needs to know. And that could cost you your life (or at least years of your life), quite literally, where steroids are involved.
And, if he missed that "day in school" what else has he missed or not kept current with? -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
I had the pain med injection without the steroid in a different area of my back. It didn't really help. It was a test to see if ablation would work as a treatment for my painful condition.
The injection itself did not make me sicker. It was just a numbing med that lasted a few hours. It was supposed to last days...
I would go ahead and get it if you are having severe problems and this is the next step in treatment. Just ask no steroids, it will still work as a diagnostic tool. The numbing will just be for a shorter period of time than it would have with the steroids.
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Numbing agents often contain epinephrine, and that is to be avoided by anyone with lyme. It's just good to know that for ANY kinds of procedures that require a numbing shot.
You can get it without it, but ask in advance.
Ask that "NO EPI" be written inside the cover of your chart at the dentist and tell others along the way if a numbing shot comes up for any reason. Any LLMD should have also told you this.
And it's why other doctors need to also be somewhat LL (at least in these basics) or referred by a real LL doctor so we don't get into trouble. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Let them know you have a condition that involves adrenal dysfunction and fatigue and that your adrenal system is likely too weak to tolerate the stimulating effects of epinephrine (ep pri nef frine) - EPI (pronounce eppie, for short).
"EPINEPHRINE" (EPI) is in a lot of the anesthetic drugs, numbing agents. It also help to retard bleeding during surgical and dental procedures.
Google: epinephrine, anesthetics
For those with lyme and weak adrenals, the effect can be just awful for days afterward. First, the icky agitated high; then the crash & fatigue.
Epinephrine (also known as adrenaline or adrenalin) is a hormone and a neurotransmitter.[1]
Epinephrine has many functions in the body, regulating heart rate, blood vessel and air passage diameters, and metabolic shifts; epinephrine release is a crucial component of the fight-or-flight response of the sympathetic nervous system.
. . .
In local anesthetics
Adrenaline is added to injectable forms of a number of local anesthetics, such as bupivacaine and lidocaine, as a vasoconstrictor to slow the absorption and, therefore, prolong the action of the anesthetic agent.
Some of the adverse effects of local anesthetic use, such as apprehension, tachycardia, and tremor, may be caused by adrenaline.
Epinephrine/adrenalin is frequently combined with dental and spinal anesthetics and can cause panic attacks in susceptible patients at a time when they may be unable to move or speak due to twilight drugs. [20] . . .
. . . Adverse reactions to adrenaline include palpitations, tachycardia, arrhythmia, anxiety, headache, tremor, hypertension, and acute pulmonary edema.[21]
Use is contraindicated in people on nonselective β-blockers, because severe hypertension and even cerebral hemorrhage may result.[10] . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Thanks for the info. I already plan on telling them no steroids in the injection. But I've had severe pain for over a year now and has
been on pain medication that I would love to get off of. I've been out of my work for 6 months and we're about to lose everything. If
there's a chance that this could lead to a treatment that it's something that I have to try. Sammy did you end up getting the
oblation. they said it was pretty much just lidocaine which I had with my spinal tap with no problem.
Posts: 67 | From Delaware | Registered: Jun 2013
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- You might want to consult a doctor trained in the UPLEDGER TECHNIQUE of cranial sacral therapy.
Most insurance will cover that. You can find a list on their website of those trained in this (safe for lyme) method near you. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Ellen101
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 35432
posted
I feel your pain, literally. SI joint pain has been my number one issue since contracting Lyme. I've tried PT, acupuncture and chiropractic with no success. I have stayed clear of injections even though they were suggested. After going through testing with an integrative practice I discovered numerous food allergies.
I met with my nutritionist who developed a safe diet for me to consume for 12 days based on the results of my testing. Only these foods can be consumed. This means absolutely no dining out during this time period. Also no supplements should be consumed during this period, but prescription meds are fine. Its only been a few days on the diet and My pain is much lower.
I'm hoping this is the answer..
Posts: 1750 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2011
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Have a question. I have posted before but wanted to touch base in regards to this topic.
I haven't been to see a LLMD yet but have an appt in early September. My symptoms and positive lyme bands (4 bands on two separate blood tests)came on full force after a surgery. With the surgery I had two courses of prednisone (the 6 day packs) within 3 - 4 weeks of each other.
Since the lyme came out with the prednisone and weakened immune system, do you think I will have a much harder time treating the lyme (because of the steroids?)
I am worried that it is going to be a longer fight because of having taken them.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Joaconnor,
I'd like to put your mind at ease. What is, is. Most often, though, yes - steroids can cause lyme to become much more difficult to treat and take longer. At least you survived steroids (especially of those not yet diagnosed some do not, sadly, but it's true).
However, that is in the past and there is no point worrying. What's tougher or a longer time can be like trying to nail jell-o to the wall. Each person with lyme has a different case. Lyme is never just lyme and each body is different, too.
Be sure to tell your new LLMD about the steroids, first thing, as he would need to know as he both assesses you clinically and designs your treatment plan.
The best we can do is take a good breath and move in style and grace, with the best educated and experienced professionals we can find. There is always hope. And many, even the toughest cases, have achieved good strong remissions. Some have varying degrees of that.
There are things you can do now, while you wait to get into the LLMD. See the articles at the "How to Find a LL ND" thread for support suggestions.
Magnesium & Liver Support are key. You might also consider seeing a LL ND, if possible, while you are waiting for the LLMD appointment.
For you, adrenal support may be more important as steroids can derail that system as much as lyme can.
Topic: NATURAL SLEEP & ADRENAL SUPPORT -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Speaking to Ellen's post, indeed, certain foods (and especially food additives) can cause all kinds of pain. When I gave up gluten, pain in my SI Joint improved tremendously.
The excito-toxic food additives can cause tremendous nerve pain, anywhere, too.
In addition to the link Ellen posted (and possibly other similar ones), it is important for everyone to see the video here, along with articles.
GMO foods can cause lots of body pain in some folks, too. Here's why:
I have purchased alot of the supplements off of Burrascano's list but did not purchase "CordyMax". I believe that is what you are referring to that I should purchase.
There were a lot of links attached on the other string so I wasn't sure if there were other supplements.
Yes - agreed. It is what it is and I can't go back and change it so I will have to address and deal with whatever I have. I am learning every day that everyone's lyme path is different (though alot of similarities too).
Thanks for your reply
Posts: 29 | From Boca Raton, Florida | Registered: Jul 2013
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quote:Originally posted by jnathan: This is an iliads llmd. I did check his credentials.
- Doesn't matter. Not all ILADS doctors are good. Sorry to say. If this doctor thinks a steroid shot is OK, then he is seriously lacking in judgment and knowledge regarding Lyme disease.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Jaoconnor,
Yes, Cordyceps (the key ingredient in CordyMax) is a good adrenal support. I could never afford that brand and have always found other ones that work just fine for me.
Good detail in that adrenal links set. Be sure to get Wilson's book, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Is the si pain something that will ever get better with treatment, or is this permanent damage?
Also this dr. Only uses oral antibiotics, is this also bad judgement?
I hate to have to have to find a new dr. It took me so long to get diagnosed and that was only because I took the time to do research, none of my doctors believed I had lyme.
Ive read a couple books, is there any suggestions so I can educate myself further.
Posts: 67 | From Delaware | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
jnathan... I've had that SI pain too. It can be horrible. I would say it is from inflammation and proper treatment would reduce or eliminate that pain.
Another consideration is going gluten free because gluten can cause inflammation and pain.
Also look into natural anti-inflammatories like curcumin or mangosteen, etc.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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