quote: CDPH has been doing surveillance for B. miyamotoi in ticks since 2000. Approximately half of adult ticks testing positive for Borrelia were positive for B. burgdorferi sensu lato and half have been positive for B. miyamotoi. Nymphs tested show a 2.5x higher prevalence infection of B. burgdorferi sensu lato than for B. miyamotoi.
So if the standard test is based on the B31 strain and is sensitive to strain and does not catch other species, how does one know if one has a non-Bb species like miyamotoi or bissettii?
I also read a study from Europe that found the C6 peptide test can catch all 3 European species at 88% while the US B31 was a miserable 51%. The paper claimed the C6 had 100% specificity meaning it had no false positives in this study.
So couldn't people in the US try the IGenex C6 if they come up negative on the standard test but have some suspicious antibodies? That is what I did and it came up positive. My doctor confirmed it by sending out for a Stony Brook repeat C6 and it too came back positive. It seems in the absence of a real bissettii or miyamotoi test, the C6 seems the only practical alternative besides the culture that has a chance of being believed.
Posts: 51 | From California | Registered: Aug 2013
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You know, when you first joined us on 30 August 2013, and said:
""posted 30 August, 2013 07:14 PM Profile for miyamotoi Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote What are the best tests to confirm Lyme? I've hear horror stories about the ELISA and Western Blot and what does this CDC thing mean for the culture? Any advice appreciated. "
... I actually thought you were a newbie who was just beginning to learn about Lyme!
I see that in fact you actually are very very familiar with Lyme issues, and even know about Borrelia strains like B. bissettii which are somehwat obscure and which many long-time patients may not be aware of.
So I am surprised that an experienced person like you would make up your mind so quickly in just a couple of days, and decide that the NIH and CDC are giving us good advice, and the C6 elisa is a good Lyme test.
I think you may have been unduly INFLUENCED by the lies recently told here by Dr McSweegan. Do you know of him?
He came here under the guise of a fictitious "patient" called LHCTom, pretending to be "on our side" , wanting to warn us that the CDC were right in their fraudulent condemnation of Dr Sapi's excellent culture test, and urging us all to use the C6 elisa test instead.
I have covered this issue in detail already, but here's a snippet from the LymeNet discussion before LHCTom fled:
LymeNet Contributor Member # 13680
Icon 1 posted 25 August, 2013 11:36 AM Profile for Eight Legs Bad Author's Homepage Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Monster (LHCTom/Ed),
Stop misrepresenting me. I clearly stated that my info was from as ILADS presentation by Dr Nick Harris, not from any other site.
Anyway, let's look at the quote YOU yourself have posted. It includes this information:
"In a set of 30 patients with late Lyme disease, all having CDC-positive IgG and IgM Western Blots, the C6 ELISA was positive in ONLY 10% OF THE PATIENTS. It is NOT A GOOD TEST FOR LATE-STAGE Lyme disease."
(my capitalisation)
Look at your membership number, Mr "LHCTom" aka Monster from the NIH. It is Number 41,709. Now, as you have just joined Lyme Net the other day, we know that it is a very recent number. In other words, this group has over 40 000 members.
Do you not comprehend that the VAST MAJORITY of those 40 000 plus people are here because of the issue of "late-stage" (or rather, CHRONIC) Lyme?
And this is just ONE, mostly US-based, group. Do you have any idea how many people are out there in the world, who have had to join groups like this one, because their CHRONIC Lyme is not recognised?
Do you think there was a Worldwide Lyme Protest, for the first time ever, because of something other than CHRONIC Lyme being ignored?
And then you recommend to us a test which you imply Igenex are RECOMMENDING, which is only TEN PERCENT SENSITIVE for chronic Lyme?
Are you out of your tiny mind?
Igenex offered the test not long after it first came out, in 2003. I believe the study they refer to, which was 73% positive in finding VERY EARLY Lyme cases which were also CDC blot-positive, is from 2003.
Actually, as YOU KNOW WELL as you are a scientist yourself, 73% sensitivity is a pretty lousy figure.
My reference from Dr Harris is a lot more recent than yours.
The Americans are unfamiliar with the C6 Elisa, as I gather it's not widely in use in USA. And you are trying to con them into thinking that it's a good and sensitive test.
If you have chronic Lyme, it might just pick it up. But it is FAR MORE LIKELY not to, and then you will have an official, FDA-endorsed BIG FAT NEGATIVE on your medical notes that will just prejudice doctors even more against you.
ALL Antibody tests are useless in Lyme, because of the myriad ways in which Lyme dysregulates and suppresses parts of the immune system.
We need antigen-based tests, and GOLD standard tests like blood culture for chronic Lyme, such as Dr Sapi and her colleagues worked hard to produce, and the Monster and CDC are working hard right now, to discredit.
Elena
quote:Originally posted by lhctom: Below is the actual quote by Nick Harris from IGenex.
Lisa aka Elena, would have you believe the test is 10% sensitive. But she is conveniently leaving off most of what Nick Harris actually said. The test has been shown to be 75-90% (other studies have shown 96%) except late stage infections where a small study at IGenex showed only 10%. Since this is the only other test offered in the US that is recognized by ID doctors, if you want to get a diagnosis that is believed, the C6 is one way to try. Its very dishonest to partially quote someone or a study just to give the impression you want. We all know this is exactly what the IDSA does. So isn't this the same? Lisa, Elena or whoever she is is giving out information intentionally altered ..."
quote:Originally posted by miyamotoi: I have read that Borrelia Bissettii has also been found by Dr Lane of UCB in patients in Mendocino California.
quote: CDPH has been doing surveillance for B. miyamotoi in ticks since 2000. Approximately half of adult ticks testing positive for Borrelia were positive for B. burgdorferi sensu lato and half have been positive for B. miyamotoi. Nymphs tested show a 2.5x higher prevalence infection of B. burgdorferi sensu lato than for B. miyamotoi.
So if the standard test is based on the B31 strain and is sensitive to strain and does not catch other species, how does one know if one has a non-Bb species like miyamotoi or bissettii?
I also read a study from Europe that found the C6 peptide test can catch all 3 European species at 88% while the US B31 was a miserable 51%. The paper claimed the C6 had 100% specificity meaning it had no false positives in this study.
So couldn't people in the US try the IGenex C6 if they come up negative on the standard test but have some suspicious antibodies? That is what I did and it came up positive. My doctor confirmed it by sending out for a Stony Brook repeat C6 and it too came back positive. It seems in the absence of a real bissettii or miyamotoi test, the C6 seems the only practical alternative besides the culture that has a chance of being believed.
quote:Originally posted by miyamotoi: I have read that Borrelia Bissettii has also been found by Dr Lane of UCB in patients in Mendocino California.
quote: CDPH has been doing surveillance for B. miyamotoi in ticks since 2000. Approximately half of adult ticks testing positive for Borrelia were positive for B. burgdorferi sensu lato and half have been positive for B. miyamotoi. Nymphs tested show a 2.5x higher prevalence infection of B. burgdorferi sensu lato than for B. miyamotoi.
So if the standard test is based on the B31 strain and is sensitive to strain and does not catch other species, how does one know if one has a non-Bb species like miyamotoi or bissettii?
I also read a study from Europe that found the C6 peptide test can catch all 3 European species at 88% while the US B31 was a miserable 51%. The paper claimed the C6 had 100% specificity meaning it had no false positives in this study.
So couldn't people in the US try the IGenex C6 if they come up negative on the standard test but have some suspicious antibodies? That is what I did and it came up positive. My doctor confirmed it by sending out for a Stony Brook repeat C6 and it too came back positive. It seems in the absence of a real bissettii or miyamotoi test, the C6 seems the only practical alternative besides the culture that has a chance of being believed.
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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I should have clarified. The reason I think you have allowed yourself to be unduly influenced by Dr Edward McSweegan's disinformation activities here on LymeNet, and in particular the lies he told us about the C6 elisa,is because you have ended up using the exact same phrasing he used ie:
"if you want to get a diagnosis that is believed"
In future, I advise you to be more cautious about what sources of "information" you believe. Dr McSweegan is the Denialists' Internet Lyme Disease Disinformation Officer-in-Chief.
as for a diagnosis that can be "believed" - we know the public health agencies will continue to do everything in their power to make sure we are not "believed" - regardless of which test we use.
The goal is not to hope and pray that we will be "believed". The goal is to expose and bring down the Denial, and replace the Denialists with officers who genuinely want to do the job they were employed to do:
PROTECT PUBLIC HEALTH!!!!!
Then our worries about being "believed" will be over.
Elena
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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lax mom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38743
posted
"So couldn't people in the US try the IGenex C6 if they come up negative on the standard test but have some suspicious antibodies?"
Well, my immune system is shot (in the words of my ID dr) "for some unknown reason, probably stress" (proven by sepsis with no immune system activation to fight it off), so it's not making antibodies to anything.
Since the C6 Elisa and Western Blot are all negative, I guess that means I'm healthy as a horse then.
lax mom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38743
posted
To the government employees and Drs who know the deal with Lyme in our country and come on this site full of sick people and feel it's ok to pretend to also be sick:
I am not a conspiracy theorist, never have been. I am just a mom whose 2 kids need me alive. Please stop this craziness and nonsense. People are dying. I almost died. My husband almost died. My son had lyme induced autism. This could happen in your own family.
If something doesn't change, it will happen to your family too.
Unless you are ok knowing people are dying on your watch, then stop it. Someone somewhere has got to have the courage to be honest. We all only get one life. At the end of that life, are you going to be ok knowing peoples' lives could have been saved had you spoken up? The truth will come out eventually.
GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
Laxmom-i agree with what you say exactly.
I pray everyday for someone in one of the disease centers in north America to do the morale thing and whistleblow.
I think they are spineless and needed to grow a set to speak out, but now I wonder if they are between a rock and a hard place as well.
I don't believe in conspiracies either but I wonder...
What if there IS a cure. But at the CDC they're told it's for national security to keep the cure hidden.
What if the people at the disease centers in north America are being threatened to keep quiet about lyme and co?
It doesn't make it right and I've probably just watched too many Hollywood movies, but it is incredible difficult for me to imagine any situation where one person would CHOOSE to humiliate and demean people infected with lyme.
Aren't we suffering enough? I certainly feel like I can't take much more. Not only am I in pain constantly, losing my memory and losing my vision, but because of the misinformation from the disease centers, I don't have the support of my peers or family either.
So to be on this forum with impostors is like kicking me while I'm already down.
It is hard to wrap my musshy brain around the fact that there may be people that EVIL in positions where they are supposed to be helping people.
It makes me sick and ashamed to be part of the human race, if this is what we do to each other.
Just sickens me.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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lax mom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38743
posted
Greta: I think at this point someone could realize that they need to mitigate the damages.
Impersonating a sick person just goes beyond the pale. It's an us vs. them mentality that does not belong in a medical discussion. This isn't a game. People are dying.
I was thinking this afternoon. The Tuskeegee experiments were using syphillis. Now, it's Lyme. What's the deal with playing around with spirochetes?
When I had surgery (well, an ERCP with sphincterotomy and some biopsies) 2 weeks ago, it was in a major University's cancer center. I was shocked at how beautiful the center was. It was all meant to soothe the senses of the cancer patient to help them heal.
Then when I had the surgery, everyone was so supportive and helpful. I couldn't help but contrast that with how we all are treated with Lyme...as panhandlers on the medical community's street so to speak.
posted
Sad. This man sounds like more of a troll than a "Dr." It's odd to me that a "Dr.", who spent so many years learning and training how to help people would spend so much time and energy as a weasely keyboard troll. He should try Reddit... He'd find millions just like him. There must be some reason this guy and others like him want us all shut up....hmmm. What could it be? Stop calling yourself a doctor, or try being one. You might like yourself for it.
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posted
this happens in sweden and norway too, two very lout doctors blogging and giving interviews, telling the press that chronic or persistant lyme is imaginary and getting doctors that prescribe antibiotics shut down.
Strange enough they are involved in vaccines, like pandemrix , and the other one is very much for ritalin (ADHD drug) They blog and twitter awful things! Just like trolls.
posted
Also, the LymenetEurope connection makes total sense now. I had been to those forums numerous times and couldn't figure out where the anger was coming from and why they hated Lymenet so much. NOW I get it. Jeez what sad human beings. Too bad they are sitting where they are.
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
I agree, laxmom.
What is it with the freaking spirochete experiments!
Geesh!
And also agree with the panhandling comment.
My old doc, who looked at me with concern when she thought I had lupus, did a 180 and looked at me with disgust when I mentioned lyme.
"oh Greta, you don't want to be labelled as one of THOSE people" she said.
She looked at me like I was something she just scraped from the bottom of her shoe.
Aside from locale, how is alienation of lyme patients any different than leper colonies back in the day. So we're the non-living living, walking amongst the living.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
Lymeboy, Mcsweegan is not a medical doctor. The "Dr" title is because he has a PhD. He is a biowarfare scientist, microbiologist and parasitologist.
However, he WAS trying to give medical advice as the fake patient "LHCTom", and to find out private info about patients' health - which is why Dr Macdonald asked him which medical school he graduated from.
All this can and MUST be exposed - so all those of you who were here before he deleted his posts , please SAVE copies in both electronic and hard copy form.
They could be submitted to the Senate Oversight committee on CDC along with the other evidence of criminal tactics to discredit the new culture test offered by Advanced Labs.
Elena
quote:Originally posted by lymeboy: Sad. This man sounds like more of a troll than a "Dr." It's odd to me that a "Dr.", who spent so many years learning and training how to help people would spend so much time and energy as a weasely keyboard troll. He should try Reddit... He'd find millions just like him. There must be some reason this guy and others like him want us all shut up....hmmm. What could it be? Stop calling yourself a doctor, or try being one. You might like yourself for it.
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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There could well be a cure, and they could be sitting on it.
No rational person can look at all the facts of this coverup and see how it could serve the purpose of "National Security".
McSweegan, Baker, Barbour, Steere, Klempner, etc etc undoubtedly have a very broad definition of "national security" which amounts to this:
"If the US public and the world finds out what a bunch of negligent morons have been working in the field of WMD, and how our negligence has given rise to such a horrendous epidemic, they will lose confidence in DOD and the public health apparatus and that would endanger the American people.
It's absurd.
Ken Alibek, the leading Soviet biowar scientist who defected to the US, once said that the US, unlike USSR, only worked on agents for which they had either an effective vaccine, or a cure.
A good vaccine is unlikely for a bug that practises so many antigenic tricks as borrelia.
So if Alibek is telling the truth, they may well be sitting on cures.
At the very least they are stopping all decent and humane scientists from discovering cures by telling them chronic Lyme does not exist. Elena
quote:Originally posted by GretaM: Laxmom-i agree with what you say exactly.
I pray everyday for someone in one of the disease centers in north America to do the morale thing and whistleblow.
I think they are spineless and needed to grow a set to speak out, but now I wonder if they are between a rock and a hard place as well.
I don't believe in conspiracies either but I wonder...
What if there IS a cure. But at the CDC they're told it's for national security to keep the cure hidden.
What if the people at the disease centers in north America are being threatened to keep quiet about lyme and co?
It doesn't make it right and I've probably just watched too many Hollywood movies, but it is incredible difficult for me to imagine any situation where one person would CHOOSE to humiliate and demean people infected with lyme.
Aren't we suffering enough? I certainly feel like I can't take much more. Not only am I in pain constantly, losing my memory and losing my vision, but because of the misinformation from the disease centers, I don't have the support of my peers or family either.
So to be on this forum with impostors is like kicking me while I'm already down.
It is hard to wrap my musshy brain around the fact that there may be people that EVIL in positions where they are supposed to be helping people.
It makes me sick and ashamed to be part of the human race, if this is what we do to each other.
Just sickens me.
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Yes, I'm sorry Susank advised people to go there. Two people here are now reporting computer problems. I have no doubt that LNE is use to hack people as well as many other nefarious purposes.
Elena
quote:Originally posted by lymeboy: Also, the LymenetEurope connection makes total sense now. I had been to those forums numerous times and couldn't figure out where the anger was coming from and why they hated Lymenet so much. NOW I get it. Jeez what sad human beings. Too bad they are sitting where they are.
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Bakken is one of the authors of the useless IDSA Lyme guidelines that have hurt patients around the world.
Elena
quote:Originally posted by n.northernlights: this happens in sweden and norway too, two very lout doctors blogging and giving interviews, telling the press that chronic or persistant lyme is imaginary and getting doctors that prescribe antibiotics shut down.
Strange enough they are involved in vaccines, like pandemrix , and the other one is very much for ritalin (ADHD drug) They blog and twitter awful things! Just like trolls.
posted
Greta, you have raised some very important issues in your post.
Can the Denialists whistleblow? Are they spineless, or is it too dangerous for them? Have they been threatened, or are they just psychopaths who enjoy hurting millions of people?
I think the answer is very complex. There are a range of people involved, who each find themselves in different circumstances.
A very high-up person in British politics told me that at the top levels of government here, they are fully aware that there is a Lyme cover-up, but they are afraid to speak out for fear of "losing their pensions".
To me, that is no excuse, and is a sordid disgrace. After all, these are people whose pensions allow them to live fantastically luxurious lifestyles. Even if they lost those pensions by having their positions in govt removed under false pretext, no one could take away the basic state pension, which is pretty low, but is what milllions of pensioners in this country have to live on anyway.
So rather than live like millions of other elderly people in Britian, they would prefer to keep their mouths shut, let millions of people suffer (and an unknown proportion of that figure die),just so they can maintain their decadent greedy lifestyles.
Ihave no sympathy for people like that.
Then there are others, scientists, health officials etc, who ar not DIRECTLY involved in the coverup, but nevertheless have been made to feel they should not speak out or complain if their work is denied publication because it confirms the existence of chronic Lyme, the link between Lyme and ALS/Motor neurone disease etc etc.
This is a much more complex question. Some may have been made to feel they or their families could suffer consequences. Others will just realise they will no longer receive research funding.
I dont believe there are tens of thousands in fear of their lives - some of these people CAN speak out, or at least refuse to be part of it anymore.
McSweegan, IMO is a psychopath, which is why he was a suitable recruit for biowarfare work in the first place.
The NIH scientist who was ordered to try and censor Under Our Skin's interview with Willy Burgdorfer, and to stop any discussion of persistence, did not want to do what he was ordered. He therefore did it badly! He miht be a brilliant scientist, but he turned out to be a lousy bouncer.
They find it hard to find enough people willing to do the hateful things they need done to us.
Down in Hell, the Devil has a staffing crisis, you see!!!
Elena
quote:Originally posted by GretaM: ...I pray everyday for someone in one of the disease centers in north America to do the morale thing and whistleblow.
I think they are spineless and needed to grow a set to speak out, but now I wonder if they are between a rock and a hard place as well.
I don't believe in conspiracies either but I wonder...
What if there IS a cure. But at the CDC they're told it's for national security to keep the cure hidden.
What if the people at the disease centers in north America are being threatened to keep quiet about lyme and co?
It doesn't make it right and I've probably just watched too many Hollywood movies, but it is incredible difficult for me to imagine any situation where one person would CHOOSE to humiliate and demean people infected with lyme.
....
It makes me sick and ashamed to be part of the human race, if this is what we do to each other.
Just sickens me.
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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lax mom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38743
posted
Well, eventually their own families will get infected.
posted
Laxmom, this may not be the case. Their family members may have access to immediate diagnosis, instant curative treatment, or preventive measures that civilian medicine has no idea exist.
One example might be a tick repellent which performs far better than any we know of.
Also, a few of the Denialists, such as McSweegan, are true psychopaths in the medical sense, in my opinion. This means they do not care about ANYONE'S suffering - possibly not even their own families.
Elena
quote:Originally posted by lax mom: Well, eventually their own families will get infected.
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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lax mom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38743
posted
Wow. I was never a conspiracy theorist. I was quite naive.
Last night, when I couldn't sleep due to insomnia, I googled McSweegen. That will give you nightmares.
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
That's why he had so much time to troll on Sci Med under several different monikers.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
That's why he had so much time to troll on Sci Med under several different monikers.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
I think the "Man with no Work" story was probably deliberately put out in the media to provide a cover for the REAL WORK he has been doing since being transferred from his post as NIH Lyme Programme Officer.
His REAL JOB (still funded by NIH, at least partly) is Head of Online Covert Lyme Disease Disinformation Activities.
The job description is flexible and includes additional "offline" activities, such as personally stalking Lyme disease campaigners and researchers.
And at this job as Disinformation Officer he has been working VERY HARD, night and day, for years!
Elena
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Would you all believe, McSweegan is STILL trying to fool people on other Lyme forums that he is a Lyme "patient" called LHCTom (Thomas Eames) even AFTER he confessed here on LymeNet that he was McSweegan!
The dialogue below is from the forum MDJunction:
Here is McSweegan commenting about himself, then pretending nt to be himself:
"A few days ago, Dr Edward McSweegan, formerly the NIH Lyme Programme Officer in the US, and author of many papers promoting the view that chronic, disabling persistent Lyme Disease does not exist, suddenly confessed on a Lyme Disease discussion forum that he had spent the last year PRETENDING to be a Lyme sufferer, using the false name and the internet moniker LHCTom.
I am not Edward McSweegan. I speak for myself."
He then wrote a long diatribe containing the same lies he wrote here before we blew his cover, plus some embelllishments and some new lies, even more farfetched than the previous ones.(see below)
He then panicked and deleted everything except the paragraph above stating he was not McSweegan.
Betty G, forum organiser at MDJunction then wrote this:
"so tom, If you're not McSweegan, why do you say exactly the same things he did, using the exact same moniker? bettyg"
And she restored the material he had deleted(caution, do not go to the LymeNet Europe link he included unless you are certain you have above-average anti-malware software on your pc):
"It appears the real Edward McSweegan may have reacted to the
negative
reactions to my culture posts. Its not possible to know if
he actually
made this post. I apologize for any confusion or difficulty
through every ALS isolate and compare it against both the
CDC sample and
then against all NCBI database Borrelia pyrG sequences
including full
sequences. I was not trying to show its 100% contamination
but that as
much as half appeared suspicious due to the 27 garinii which
is rare in
the US. I did confirm the CDC table was correct with the
exception of
the "y" substituted in their Bb 603 pyrG sequence.
The "y" and 602/603
match can be ignored for the purpose of contamination
likelihood. It was
just a dumb error by the CDC but irrelevant to the issue I
was
exploring.
There remains some mysteries. Alan reports that the
garinii species samples were geographically isolated. That
doesn't
change the 27 garinii found in the US with most identical
and matching
the CDC samples being a big problem. Even if they didn't
use garinii in
the lab, the 27 garinii that were almost all equal should
not happen.
The source of the garinii contamination must have either
found a way to
get to the other site or there was one garinii patient that
was the
source. These 2 labs most likely had people driving back and
forth
carrying various components of the culture. The garinii
FujiP2 must have
slipped between labs as it seems unlikely ( but possible) a
patient was
the source.
Another Mystery is why ALS did not realize finding
27 garinii isolates was a red flag. Its shown in their paper
in their
phylogenetic tree. This should have gotten their attention.
ALS also
says all isolates were identified with the Bb B31 monoclonal
antibody.
The garinii and azfelii should have failed the monoclonal
antibody test
but passed the polyclonal test. This should have been picked
up by the
polyclonal and that to should have raised a red flag. They
did say the
monoclonal antibody and ployclonal antibody tests worked
correctly. They
picked up the burgdorferi=monoclonal and
non-burgdorferi=polyclonal
correctly. Garinii in the US would have been a BIG
discovery. It should
have come with fanfare since the presence of European
strains in the US
is a controversial point. It happens occasionally but not
50% as in the
study. Many believe the serology tests for all three species
should be
available in the US. This discovery could have changed
that.
So the challenge to ALS is as follows:
Explain how 27 Eurasian garinii strains showed up in
patients distributed across the US and
Explain how 20 ( + 7 near identical) of these US rare
garinii isolates had identical pyrG partial sequences and
Explain how the majority of all samples were identical or
near identical to the 3 ATCC strains purchased for culture
testing
The odds of these genes being accidentally matched is
vanishingly small.
Nearby genes are more likely DNA sequencing errors than real
genetic drift when they are random.
A 603 sequence of 4 letters has 4 exp. 603 possible
combinations is more than the number of stars in the
universe.
Because of this, a Borrelia individual sharing an identical
pyrG sequence must share a recent common ancestor.
The
probability of a pyrG sequence drifting and then returning
to a value
is in the 1/billion odds after just 3 changes. They just
don't
accidentally match after evolution causes them to drift
away.
Because
of this, once they drift they never return - they further
diverge
rapidly. This is why these housekeeping genes make good
genotype
identifiers when combined with their uniform slow forward
mutations.
I'm
sad and unhappy to have to report this and don't enjoy
the negative
response to me. But I feel its important for all Lyme
sufferers to have
access to all sides of the science - something the CDC/NIH
and
mainstream medicine has concealed behind their dogmas.
Again, I apologize if anything I said was inappropriate. I
truly believe my analysis is correct. I am truly unhappy of
this.
Tom"
Good God, McSweegan is crazy! Dr Macdonald has already disproven all those lies he tells above, and clearly stated that there was no transfer of lab strains from Ct to Pennsylvania, yet McSweegan thinks he "knows" people took it back and forth by car.
Maybe Advanced Labs can sue him for libel? We have the proof he confessed he is "LHCTom".
They are simply showing how scared they are of Dr Sapi's culture test, as it will prove not just chronic Lyme, but likely prove the miltiplicity of species and strains infecting Ameicans.
Elena
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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lymeboy
Unregistered
posted
This man is the troll to end all trolls.
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posted
It's interesting that reports are emerging to the effect that not everyone in CDC is willing to go along with Barbara Johnson's sabotage of the truth and false allegations against Dr. Sapi's culture test.
Elena
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Cold Feet: A reminder: test kits are based on ONE strain of the B31 Borrelia -- there are at least ONE-HUNDRED strains of Bb. Why isn't the CDC informing us of these germane facts?
Cold Feet,
The new test coming out this year will test directly for all strains of Bb. It will test for antigens and not the immune response as well and should work with all stage of infection. They will also be adding more outer surface proteins from Bb in 2015 as well as other tick infections.
This is the nanotrap antigen test developed by George Mason University in Virginia in partnership with Ceres Nano. It will also be FDA approved and should be reputable.
If people start testing positive on this test it will be very interesting. If we can confirm the cause of these symptoms and treatment isn't working then of course a new cure will have to be made as well.
We can't do any of that of course without a reputable and reliable test.
Posts: 136 | From arlington, VA | Registered: Jun 2010
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
I hope so.
It would be great to have a test where the "real numbers" of patients is indesputable.
Especially in Canada, where the BC CDC says there have only been just under 300 cases of lyme in BC.
Which is bologney.
And the survey they did, docs admit to under report, even with seropositive tests.
Ok now I'm fuming. Sorry to rant here.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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