posted
My son did it for 1 month when antibiotics were affecting his blood counts - can't say it did anything for him at all - no herxing and did not improve.
Posts: 749 | From State full of ticks | Registered: Dec 2008
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
I thought the HH2 capsules (high dose Houttonyia herb known for Bartonella co-infection)
were very effective at either taping down or helping to eradicate Bartonella while I was doing high dose multiple antibiotics for Lyme Borrelia.
I don't have experience with any other Zhang products.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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- I did fabulously with the Zhang protocol for the few months I could budget - twice, several years ago. Had I been able to continue, I would have. Were I to be able to afford it now, I would.
But, not just this or that here and there, the full protocol. That's what really helped in so many ways. So many.
It is well worth it and for the excellent quality control, fair trade with all who grow, gather, and other ways put it together for us, it's very reasonable, actually. Just wish I had known abou this long before all my money was depleted by other stuff that did not even come close to the effectiveness of this.
I met at workshop of his, another person with lyme who had been very active before, a travel photographer even . . . very debilitated by lyme for many months if not years. He was 95% better with this, doing the full protocol for many months but felt he just couldn't quite get back to 100%.
After the workshop, there was time for discussion and good insight that seemed to make sense for each person there.
That workshop had been designed for those in the Hepatitis protocol but it was graciously altered to include lyme. I learned SO much about the liver that day and it was good to see so many there from many states (even another country) who were doing very well with the Hepatitis counterpart. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- Be sure to get the book. A LL ND would be best to guide you for individualized treatment.
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Be aware that integrative doctors can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first. Some have learned on their own from experts in the field. There are many ways to acquire knowledge and most are eager to share basic details about their training. You want someone with a deep knowledge.
Some of the specialities above may not actually treat lyme yet, for things such as physical adjustments, it is just good that they are also LL, at least to some degree (to know never to suddenly twist the neck or spine).
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,
LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail,
BIOPHOTON - BIONIC 880 (& PE-1) links, and
RIFE links, etc. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- The Hepapro Allicin - the best I've ever used - can have you smelling of garlic. Depending upon your social situation, work, etc., that may be just fine - just tell everyone you had an "Italian" or "Mediterranean" lunch. Get them to eat garlic, too.
And / or CHLOROPHYLL -- I find going right to certain greens powders that will pull not just double but multiple duty to work better. Some chlorophyll is made from Stinging Nettle, so many as well go right for that since it's so very good in many ways.
- I get Chlorella & Spirulina here. I mix with Gotu Kola powder and Stinging Nettle powder.
These might also be very helpful for your purposes. Stinging Nettle can help lower cytokines, helpful during a herx but also helpful for anyone with a cold to help them feel better and less achy.
The herb, STINGING NETTLE may serve to compensate for the reaction by calming the the cytokine storm that is often part of a herx reaction. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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- Not everyone can process garlic / allicin, although some may experience a herxheimer and not realize why. If a MTHFR methylation issue is suspected, allicin may not be the right fit.
With this protocol, it's essential to also take Circulation P and AI #3 for liver support, as well as other things specific to the protocol such as HH capsules, etc.
(there is an alternative protocol here that does not use garlic, rather Coptis, but it's better to use that just for breaks where you'd want to avoid garlic, IMO. Allicin is the heavy hitter here).
Topic: Garlic vs Allicin -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- As excellent as Zhang, is Buhner. However, very different design. Buhner does not suggest garlic / allicin but has others which are also strong considerations.
[I've not been able to afford any resemblance of a full protocol but have used many things suggested and they have benefited me. Just think it's best if one can do the full-deal, so to speak, if possible. Items suggested from a few select vendors are of top quality and fair price, all things considered.]
Just so you also know about this option. Even if you don't do this, his books are full of fabulous research and insight, regardless of which path one has chosen.
Rivendell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19922
posted
On Dr. Weil's website, he recommends the Zang protocal for Chronic Lyme.
I have never tried it.
Let us know your results if you do.
Posts: 1358 | From Midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
quote:Originally posted by Keebler:
There is an alternative protocol here that does not use garlic, rather Coptis, but it's better to use that just for breaks where you'd want to avoid garlic, IMO. Allicin is the heavy hitter here.
I did the Zhang protocol using his brand of Coptis, for three months in 2004. I felt better on it, but stopped for other reasons.
I started Berberine during the summer of 2012, and saw alot of improvements in my symptoms. Then I found out that Coptis has Berberine in it!
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- I'm so glad Carol reminded me of Berberine. I've been using that lately, too (as my major assist), and do much better in many ways with it. The best pain / inflammation reliever, ever, for my body.
BERBERINE – LINKS SET -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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MannaMe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33330
posted
Keebler, how much berberine do you take?
Is it muscle pain / inflammation that eased with berberine?
Posts: 2252 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Yes, for me, that deep all over body pain (previously misdiagnosed as "fibromyalgia") / all over inflammation is helped. Also helps very much to stop hands' "trigger joints" from catching - and from being painful even when they are not catching.
Read ALL about it first, discuss with your doctor in reference your overall protocol and how this might work with it. Start with just one a day for a few days, gradually work up to your optimum does.
I take two capsules, 3 x day and that works for me.
This is NOT adequate as a solo agent to conquer lyme/TBD. Other things would also be required. But this is certainly good for me and about all I can afford. Neither sedating nor stimulating in action, either.
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