Summer3
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 35286
posted
I am currently seeing a cardiologist over an irregular heartbeat that first occurred with my initial Lyme infection two years ago.
I'm on an event monitor and had an echo but no results yet. A doctor thought he heard my heart in A-fib which started this referral to the cardiologist. It was unusual because of my age (20's). The monitoring company said so far they have had to contact the doctor's office many times about events picked up on the monitor. They only contact the doctor when the event is potentially serious (I was told by the nurse at the heart center).
The cardiologist is not known to be Lyme literate and I no longer have a LLMD or the money to see a new one. Financially I don't have that option. I do have a general doctor that I trust somewhat, but that doctor is not comfortable giving me specific advice regarding Lyme because my symptoms are getting very severe. So I don't know how to determine if I should trust the cardiologist's opinion since he won't be considering my symptoms in the context of chronic Lyme.
What are some general thoughts regarding treating the individual arrhythmia with medications or other methods? I do have some heart symptoms of fainting, dizziness, SOB and extreme fatigue. Would it be harmful to treat the heart symptoms as an isolated condition? I do believe it was caused by Lyme and I would still treat infection on my own.
I'm thinking the suggested treatment (based on what a doctor I know socially said) will be beta blockers or potentially a pacemaker.
posted
I have heart issues and my cardiologist does not consider Lyme, he treats my symptoms. I feel well and the Lyme is in the past, however.
It sounds like they will be doing SOMETHING to help you once you get all the results back.
I don't think that is a bad thing!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Summer3
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 35286
posted
I agree. So most heart medications and treatments will not be detrimental to Lyme patients? I know steroids and some other medications are NOT a good idea.
What about infection risk? I have no NK cells and my lymphocytes are very low. I can't get over my Lyme infection so would I be at high risk undergoing a pacemaker procedure?
posted
I had a heart palp, high pulse, high BP. They gave me atenolol beta-blocker, helped a lot. As I treat Babesia/proto, I need less meds.
Also make sure you are getting enough sleep. Motherwort tincture and lemongrass tea.
Posts: 722 | From CA | Registered: Dec 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- You have posted in other threads that just a couple days ago, you started Quinine. Quinine can induce, or worsen, arrhythmia.
This could compromise the results of your current event monitor. It could be confused by your body's reaction to the quinine you just started at a fairly high starting dose.
There are safer options.
Google Advanced Search: "Quinine-induced arrhythmia"
. . . Quinine can cause abnormal heart rhythms, and should be avoided if possible in patients with atrial fibrillation, conduction defects or heart block. . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Summer3
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 35286
posted
Thank you. I did see that. I also saw that A-fib and other arrhythmias are treated with a form of quinine by cardiologists (quinidine).
"PRESCRIBED FOR: Quinidine is an antiarrhythmic drug used in the treatment of abnormal heart rhythms, such as: atrial fibrillation, atrial flutter, and ventricular arrhythmias such as paroxysmal ventricular tachycardia. Quinidine also is used to treat malaria.
There are three actions that are responsible for quinidine's ability to stop arrhythmias and prevent their recurrence. Quinidine decreases the speed of the electrical current that travels through the heart muscle that causes the heart muscle cells to contract.
It also prolongs the period during which heart muscle cells can become electrically stimulated to contract and prolongs the recovery period after contraction during which the heart muscle cells cannot be stimulated to contract.
Quinidine blocks the normal effect of the vagus nerve on the heart, causing an increase in the rate at which the heart beats. Quinidine reduces the force of contraction of heart muscle cells, and therefore may impair the pumping efficiency of failing heart muscle as in congestive heart failure.
Quinidine blocks alpha-receptors on the muscle cells that surround arteries which relaxes the muscle cells, lowers blood pressure ,and can cause excessively low blood pressure when combined with other drugs that also relax these muscle cells. Quinidine was approved by the FDA in July 1950."
"In the U.S., quinine bark is used as a tonic and digestive aid; to reduce heart palpitations and normalize heart functions; to stimulate digestion and appetite; for hemorrhoids, varicose veins, headaches, leg cramps, colds, flu, and indigestion; and for its astringent, bactericidal, and anesthetic actions in various other conditions.
The cardiac effects of cinchona bark were noted in academic medicine at the end of the 17th century. Quinine was used sporadically through the first half of the 18th century for cardiac problems and arrhythmia and it became a standard of cardiac therapy in the second half of the 19th century.
Another alkaloid chemical called quinidine was discovered to be responsible for this beneficial cardiac effect. Quinidine, a compound produced from quinine, is still used in cardiology today, sold as a prescription drug for arrhythmia. The sales demand for this drug still generates the need for harvesting natural quinine bark today because scientists have been unsuccessful in synthesizing this chemical without utilizing the natural quinine found in cinchona bark."
It seems like there is conflicting information for literally every single treatment (Lyme or otherwise). I'm not disagreeing and saying that it couldn't increase heart problems.......I'm sure it could. There's no way to know for sure. I'm just posting where I found the info that I based my decision to take it on. I didn't just take it blindly. I researched it first.
I do not know that the cardiologist will be able to help anyway. So far no mainstream doctors have helped me at all; even symptomatically. I tried to wait to resume treatment until I was off a heart monitor so that I wouldn't mess up the test but in reality, it will be unwise to rely on this cardiologist to be of significant help to me. He has already strung me along for many months with no info or treatment. The event monitoring company told me the other day (prior to starting any herbs) that my heart was beating in a way that required them to contact my doctor directly in over 15 instances. I was never contacted by the cardiologist's office about it so I have little confidence in them.
I would have preferred to go back on abx which I tolerate very well, but I can't so I had to start herbs. I'm getting worse too rapidly and will not be able to resume abx after the testing to bounce back to my normal level. Once I get worse, it has historically been extremely difficult to reverse progression.
So I felt like the best thing for me to do, before my symptoms get any worse and I become completely bed-bound is to begin the herbs that are most likely to prevent progression (and are affordable for me). I am on Quina, I started Cumanda, and then I will add Samento.
I have tried most of the other common Lyme and co herbs but they have not helped me (andrographis, cat's claw, japanese knotweed, sarsaparilla, stephania, red root, houttuynia, cryptolepis, artemesinin, etc.). So that's why I am moving on to other herbs that may not be the safest option, but might have a chance to work.
posted
I have been on and off of antibiotics for years. About 2 years ago I started having palpitations, shortness of breath, and extreme fatigue on exertion. About a month ago, I thought I was Lyme symptom free and stopped the antibiotic because I was having problems with thrush. It was about that time that my fatigue became acute and I have trouble doing anything. My primary physician did lab work and said I have mild heart failure. My cardiologist agrees. Had an echo Thursday. No results yet. Have an appointment with my primary tomorrow. Last night when I was trying to get back to sleep it occurred to me that maybe it is the Lyme again.
-------------------- Ann Posts: 66 | From Bourbonnais, IL, USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
quote:Originally posted by Annthenurse:
...my fatigue became acute and I have trouble doing anything. My primary physician did lab work and said I have mild heart failure.
CoEnzyme Q10 should help the heart failure. You'll need 200 mg to 400 mg daily. You can get a good price at iHerb.com.
When I ran out, my fatigue became worse.
Posts: 6956 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Summer.. I would get off the quinine ASAP! It may have helped lead to my heart problems many years ago. I don't know for sure, but I have suspected it.
A surgery for a pacemaker is not that big a deal as far as the possibility of infection. As long as they have everything sterilized, it's a pretty simple procedure.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Summer3
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 35286
posted
Okay, I will think about going off it Lymetoo. I am really preferring to stick with the strongest herbs possible though. I'm not very concerned about the risks involved since my symptoms are progressing to a very severe state anyway.
Relatively speaking, the amount of Quinine in this product is very small. According to Cowden, it has the least quinine of the entire family of plants in the species. It is also listed as an antirrhythmic on the Nutramedix website.I am actually noticing less heart palpitations since starting it, but I am planning on rotating it every two weeks with other herbs. I'm not doing it full-time.
posted
OK.. so it's not pharmaceutical quinine.. not a prescription? That may be OK.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Summer3
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 35286
posted
Yes, it's Nutramedix Quina (cinchona calisaya). It's recommended for Lyme, Babesia, etc. I think Babesia is my main problem and I already tried treating it unsuccessfully with Mepron, clindamycin, zith, artemisinin, cryptolepis and others.
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