surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
What has been happening for me, which is new: The itching in one place, no rash, clear skin, unbelievable itch under skin.
Since I started Cipro, pain in feet, calves, hands- if I lay down to rest, they can go numb. Left throat sensations come and go,
the headache that threatens underneath, tamping it down with Ibuprofen. The pain in hand was starting before Cipro. I believed I released bacteria while treating parasites.
CD57, as I've felt my Bart (BLO, I am not sure) I DO have word retrieval issues when speaking, poor memory.
Last few days, I've had moments of speaking more animated, telling funny stories- haven't seen that in awhile (good)
I always said I never really had pain, more neuro. I've got pain now. (Not working out while on a Cipro). It's doable, but I am lying low, only going out when I have to-
Just took 2 Wobenzyme today- I am small, probably won't go more than 4. 1200 mg Enhansa, major probiotics, etc. An Epsom salt soak on feet and legs is relieving.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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CD57
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Member # 11749
posted
great Surprise. Did the itching start right after the Enhansa and green tea ? Fadingout may be onto something here.
I am also on Enhansa, 1200-1800mg and have added in EGCG/green tea 400mg x 2.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Also, you'll get big streaky rashes. They clear too.
The itching was an early sign during treatment. The neuropathic nerve pain will follow as you keep loading long vida curcumin and the nerves are infected. Make sure you have the pain meds available or you'll be sorry.
With bactrim I've found that I need half the long vida dose than if I'm off it. So on bactrim I take doses of 187.50 mg (3/4 of a 1/8 tsp) every three hours versus double that off it. Also, be sure to dose before bedtime for night coverage if you have any appetite for Long vida.
Posts: 57 | From Raleigh, NC | Registered: Jun 2011
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
No, the itching has nothing to do w/ Enhansa or green tea (been on both before)
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
great Surprise. Did the itching start right after the Enhansa and green tea ? Fadingout may be onto something here.
I am also on Enhansa, 1200-1800mg and have added in EGCG/green tea 400mg x 2.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Don't use enhansa. Long vida has the best curcumin absorption (60x standardized) and is the most econonomical. We need really high levels to stop BLO since it is intracellular.
Don't deviate from the protocol.
Wobenzyme dose is 2-3 pills BID or TID per blood fibrinogen levels.
Posts: 57 | From Raleigh, NC | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
People please save this protocol and repost in case my account disappears from the forum. I'd hate for it to be lost and I'm getting bad vibes.
People need to understand that I'm in pain myself from BLO and babesia. I need to be very direct to keep the conversation on track and to help the most people with an effective treatment.
posted
I don't know if enhansa has an appetite response and I don't know how much to dose it. $80 per bottle is very expensive and it probably has much worse absorption (they don't even list it on their site). That's a waste of money.
At my off bactrim peak I was taking around 2.5g of Longvida curumin per day. That's a lot of curcumin to absorb. Don't play games with your treatment.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- As with anything, there may be some people who need to be cautious about certain things.
A note for those with gallbladder issues: Curcumin can be too strong and cause some troubles, even gallbladder attacks. For those with gallbladder issues, turmeric might be a better choice, at lower dose, lower concentration for the typical reasons one might be taking it (aside from the topic of this thread).
For anyone on IV Rocephin (which stresses gallbladder even with protection), it's probably best to avoid the concentrated Curcumin and stick with less concentrated turmeric (again, for the typical reasons, unrelated to this particular thread).
For hearing / liver issues: because acetaminophen blocks glutathione in all cells of the body and can prevent the liver from making / managing it altogether, just be aware of that. It can damage the liver but also other tissue, functions, too.
Acetaminophen, even one dose per week, recently has been linked to permanent hearing (&/or vestibular) damage.
I don't have the time to post my research notes on this but some searching can provide more detail. Google Advanced Search is very nice so that terms are not broken up in the search process. Cross searches are much easier there, too.
PubMed also has nice cross-search capabilities. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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The MD would cover that stuff. People shouldn't do this protocol without a MD supervising. They'd be doing liver function tests for the antibiotics.
And curcumin at a low dose probably won't work. We have to saturate the body and get this stuff into very deep tissues, joints, ligament insertions, etc. Low dose most likely isn't going to cut it. I used standardized (low absorption) curcumin according to the recommended dosing BID and it didn't have an effect.
However, if someone has a gall bladder problem and can't tolerate it then I guess they're stuck with BLO. If this ends up being a long term cure, most likely they'd do the protocol and sacrifice the gall bladder and live with a special diet than have to continue to suffer with the BLO. BLO is that bad mentally and physically.
The pharmacist said acetaminophen used in this manner was a good drug. I haven't found any replacements to deal with the neuropathic pain once it gets going. What is the risk? 1:1 million? Seriously, warnings should be in proportion to risk.
"When used appropriately, side effects with acetaminophen are not common. The most serious side effect is liver damage due to large doses, chronic use or concomitant use with alcohol or other drugs that also damage the liver. Chronic alcohol use may also increase the risk of stomach bleeding."
Do you have a safer option to manage pain that's been medically approved? We can't increase the ibuprofen dose because that would inhibit the immune system. This is the best one I could find and I have had no issues with hearing loss.
The 2g dose really is maximal anyway. As time goes on pain decreases and you don't need as much medication.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- In an interview, this author said that, based on her research, at the very most, no more than ONE dose per week of acetaminophen and it would be best to avoid it altogether. She said it's just such a risk to hearing damage.
. . . The First Large Study of Analgesic Use and Hearing Loss in Women
We studied over 60,000 women who are participants in the Nurses’ Health Study II and followed them for 14 years in order to prospectively examine whether analgesic use is a risk factor for hearing loss in women.
During follow-up, over 10,000 women developed hearing loss.
The participants in the Nurses’ Health Studies are a remarkable group of dedicated and reliable women who have been followed for decades and have provided our group of researchers with a wealth of detailed information on their diet, lifestyle factors, medication use, medical conditions, and more. We used this information to evaluate how their use of analgesic medications may be related to hearing.
The Major Findings
We found that women who regularly took the analgesics ibuprofen or acetaminophen two or more days per week had an increased risk of hearing loss and the more often a woman took either of these medications, the higher her risk tended to be. . . .
. . . For acetaminophen, we found that compared with women who used acetaminophen less than one day per week, the increased risk for women who used acetaminophen 2 or more days per week ranged from 11 to 21% and the risk tended to be higher with increasing use. . . .
. . . Acetaminophen may deplete important factors, such as the powerful antioxidant glutathione, that protect the cochlea from damage. . . .
. . . Our findings for ibuprofen and acetaminophen are consistent with what we previously reported in MEN. In men, we also found that regular use of aspirin was associated with an increased risk of hearing loss. . . .
. . . What Does This All Mean?
There are a number of factors that contribute to the development of hearing loss. Advancing age is a strong risk factor, along with some medical conditions, certain medications, exposure to excessive noise and genetics. Our findings suggest that frequent analgesic use may also be an important but preventable contributor to hearing loss. . . .
NEW STUDY FINDS FREQUENT IBUPROFEN AND ACETAMINOPHEN USE MAY INCREASE RISK OF HEARING LOSS
References:
Curhan, S.G., Shargorodsky, J., Eavey, R., & Curhan, G.C. (2012). Analgesic use and the risk of hearing loss in women. American Journal of Epidemiology. Advance online publication. doi: 10.1093/aje/kws146
Curhan, S.G., Shargorodsky, J., Eavey, R., & Curhan, G.C. (2010). Analgesic use and the risk of hearing loss in men. American Journal of Medicine, 123(3), 231-237.
These can be found at PubMed. -
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
Tiny overdoses of Tylenol can add up to deadly damage
11-22-11 By Rachel Rettner (My Health News Daily)
Taking even slightly too much Tylenol over a period of several days can lead to an overdose with deadly consequences, a new study says.
The study looked at what are called "staggered overdoses," in which a person repeatedly exceeds the daily recommendation through small overdoses. This is in contrast to the more familiar single overdose, when a person takes too many pills at once. . . .
. . . Even a single dose of acetaminophen can reduce the body’s levels of glutathione, a peptide that helps repair oxidative damage that can drive inflammation in the airways, researchers have found. . . . -
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Keebler
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posted
- From: The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook (Tillotson, et.al.)
. . . SAFETY ISSUES: Due to mucin-reducing effects, do not use the concentrated extract (curcumin) or oil in high doses, especially if you have bile duct obstruction, gall stones, or stomach ulcers. Use turmeric as a spice freely. . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Some safer options to manage pain are included here:
You should not be prescribing drugs in this manner when you are not even a doctor.
You have written that a doctor should be consulted about various antibiotics which you list as "drugs", but in fact you have also advised people to take gabapentin , acetaminaphen and ibuprofen without calling them "drugs", and without any warning about discussing the matter with their doctors.
Even some therapeutic herbs can be harmful for some people in some situations, and can interact with other medications. If you really are working with an LLMD, let him/her prescribe, not you.
If like you say, you are a scientist who has worked for the pharmaceutical industry, then this is even more irresponsible on your part.
In fact I find it very hard to believe that a scientist who studied pharmacology would be unaware of the potential dangers of this "one-size fits-all" approach you are advising.
I find it hard to believe that a pharmacologist or something similar could possibly be unaware of the upgrading, in recent years, of warnings all over the world in regard to the NSAIDS, especially in older age groups.
Here is some information from NIH, which - believe it or not - sometimes do produce some useful information, though not on Lyme:
"People who take nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) (other than aspirin) such as ibuprofen may have a higher risk of having a heart attack or a stroke than people who do not take these medications. These events may happen without warning and may cause death. This risk may be higher for people who take NSAIDs for a long time. Tell your doctor if you or anyone in your family has or has ever had heart disease, a heart attack, or a stroke;if you smoke;and if you have or have ever had high cholesterol, high blood pressure, or diabetes. Get emergency medical help right away if you experience any of the following symptoms: chest pain, shortness of breath, weakness in one part or side of the body, or slurred speech.
If you will be undergoing a coronary artery bypass graft (CABG; a type of heart surgery), you should not take ibuprofen right before or right after the surgery.
NSAIDs such as ibuprofen may cause ulcers, bleeding, or holes in the stomach or intestine. These problems may develop at any time during treatment, may happen without warning symptoms, and may cause death.
The risk may be higher for people who take NSAIDs for a long time, are older in age, have poor health, or who drink three or more alcoholic drinks per day while taking ibuprofen. Tell your doctor if you take any of the following medications: anticoagulants ('blood thinners') such as warfarin (Coumadin); aspirin; other NSAIDs such as ketoprofen (Orudis KT, Actron) and naproxen (Aleve, Naprosyn); or oral steroids such as dexamethasone (Decadron, Dexone), methylprednisolone (Medrol), and prednisone (Deltasone). Also tell your doctor if you have or have ever had ulcers, bleeding in your stomach or intestines, or other bleeding disorders.
If you experience any of the following symptoms, stop taking ibuprofen and call your doctor: stomach pain, heartburn, vomit that is bloody or looks like coffee grounds, blood in the stool, or black and tarry stools.
Keep all appointments with your doctor and the laboratory. Your doctor will monitor your symptoms carefully and will probably order certain tests to check your body's response to ibuprofen.
Be sure to tell your doctor how you are feeling so that your doctor can prescribe the right amount of medication to treat your condition with the lowest risk of serious side effects.
Your doctor or pharmacist will give you the manufacturer's patient information sheet (Medication Guide) when you begin treatment with prescription ibuprofen and each time you refill your prescription.
Read the information carefully and ask your doctor or pharmacist if you have any questions. You can also visit the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) website (http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm085729.htm) or the manufacturer's website to obtain the Medication Guide."
Elena
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Elena couldn't you have private messaged me your criticism? To me adding a medical warning is redundant. People are going to have to see a MD to get the medication anyway.
Regardless, I added it.
Posts: 57 | From Raleigh, NC | Registered: Jun 2011
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
I must be missing something here- I am not reading fadingout's information as 100% literal, but rather a suggested
protocol about supplements and their interactions while on an antibiotic for treatment with a Bartonella Like Organism infection.
Every single type of pain reliever, whether OTC or prescription, carries a risk.
And I'm not reading this protocol as saying 'take a pain reliever whether you have pain or not' But that HE has had pain, here is what he used.
There are many threads here pertaining to prescription pain relievers? Threads about Collidal Silver IV's?
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
The information Keebler posted is NOT irrelevant.
Acetaminophen (we call it paracetamol here) IS potentially very dangerous in even a small overdose.
I have had to administer antidotes as a nurse to people who tried to commit suicide with this drug. Sometimes it is too late.
Because it is so easily available over the counter, it has been popular with people who do not actually want to kill themselves, but are extremely distressed and try to do a "cry for help" by taking a small overdose and then going straight to Casualty.
What they do not realise is that even a small overdose CAN kill, and even when it does not, may very easily destroy the person's liver and leave them to suffer horrifically for the rest of their lives...
Acetaminophen is no joke and is not generally prescribed for chronic long-term pain control.
A further danger is the fact that it is already an ingredient of many over-the-counter cold remedies, such that people may not realise how much they are taking in total. There are cases of deaths where a patient has taken it at the prescribed dose, but had a few doses of cold medicine on top, not realising the remedy contained this drug too,
In addition, when you are dealing with Lyme and co-infections, may people may well have some degree of liver damage to begin with - which would make acetaminophen (and indeed most drugs, but particularly this one) potentially dangerous.
In short, I am very very surprised that as a "pharmaceutical scientist" you would give advice like this here.
Gabapentin is a powerful drug too and is not to be messed with either without a doctor's guidance.
Here is some more good information from NIH on Gabapentin, as opposed to the RUBBISH they put out for decades on Lyme:
"(ga' ba pen tin) ... Do not take more or less of it or take it more often than prescribed by your doctor.
....
Gabapentin may help to control your condition but will not cure it. Continue to take gabapentin even if you feel well. Do not stop taking gabapentin without talking to your doctor, even if you experience side effects such as unusual changes in behavior or mood.
If you suddenly stop taking gabapentin tablets, capsules, or oral solution, you may experience withdrawal symptoms such as anxiety, difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep, nausea, pain, and sweating.
If you are taking gabapentin to treat seizures and you suddenly stop taking the medication, you may experience seizures more often. Your doctor may decrease your dose gradually over at least a week.
Your doctor or pharmacist will give you the manufacturer's patient information sheet (Medication Guide) when you begin treatment with gabapentin and each time you refill your prescription.
Read the information carefully and ask your doctor or pharmacist if you have any questions.
You can also visit the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) website (http://www.fda.gov/Drugs) or the manufacturer's website to obtain the Medication Guide. Other uses for this medicine Return to top....
Talk to your doctor about the risks of using this medication for your condition.
... Before taking gabapentin,
tell your doctor and pharmacist if you are allergic to gabapentin, any other medications, or any of the inactive ingredients in the type of gabapentin you plan to take. Ask your pharmacist for a list of the inactive ingredients.
you should know that gabapentin is available in different forms that may be prescribed for different uses. Ask your doctor to be sure that you are not taking more than one product that contains gabapentin.
tell your doctor and pharmacist what prescription and nonprescription medications, vitamins, nutritional supplements, and herbal products you are taking or plan to take. Be sure to mention any of the following: hydrocodone (in Hydrocet, in Vicodin, others), medications that make you feel dizzy or drowsy, morphine (Avinza, Kadian, MSIR, others), and naproxen (Aleve, Anaprox, Naprosyn, others). Your doctor may need to change the doses of your medications or monitor you carefully for side effects.
if you are taking antacids such as Maalox or Mylanta, take them at least 2 hours before you take gabapentin tablets, capsules, or solution.
tell your doctor if you have or have ever had kidney disease. If you will be taking the extended-release tablets, also tell your doctor if you need to sleep during the day and stay awake at night.
tell your doctor if you are pregnant, plan to become pregnant, or are breast-feeding. If you become pregnant while taking gabapentin, call your doctor.
if you are having surgery, including dental surgery, tell the doctor or dentist that you are taking gabapentin.
you should know that this medication may make you drowsy or dizzy, may slow your thinking, and may cause loss of coordination. Do not drive a car or operate machinery until you know how this medication affects you, and your doctor agrees that it is safe for you to begin these activities.
if you are giving gabapentin to your child, you should know that your child's behavior and mental abilities may change while he or she is taking gabapentin. Your child may have sudden changes in mood, become hostile or hyperactive, have difficulty concentrating or paying attention, or be drowsy or clumsy. Have your child avoid activities that could be dangerous, such as riding a bicycle, until you know how gabapentin affects him or her.
remember that alcohol can add to the drowsiness caused by this medication.
you should know that your mental health may change in unexpected ways and you may become suicidal (thinking about harming or killing yourself or planning or trying to do so) while you are taking gabapentin for the treatment of epilepsy, mental illness, or other conditions.
A small number of adults and children 5 years of age and older (about 1 in 500 people) who took anticonvulsants such as gabapentin to treat various conditions during clinical studies became suicidal during their treatment.
Some of these people developed suicidal thoughts and behavior as early as one week after they started taking the medication. There is a risk that you may experience changes in your mental health if you take an anticonvulsant medication such as gabapentin, but there may also be a risk that you will experience changes in your mental health if your condition is not treated.
You and your doctor will decide whether the risks of taking an anticonvulsant medication are greater than the risks of not taking the medication. You, your family, or your caregiver should call your doctor right away if you experience any of the following symptoms: panic attacks; agitation or restlessness; new or worsening irritability, anxiety, or depression; acting on dangerous impulses; difficulty falling or staying asleep; aggressive, angry, or violent behavior; mania (frenzied, abnormally excited mood); talking or thinking about wanting to hurt yourself or end your life; withdrawing from friends and family; preoccupation with death and dying; giving away prized possessions; or any other unusual changes in behavior or mood.
Be sure that your family or caregiver knows which symptoms may be serious so they can call the doctor if you are unable to seek treatment on your own.
.... ... Gabapentin may cause side effects. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:
drowsiness
tiredness or weakness
dizziness
headache
uncontrollable shaking of a part of your body
double or blurred vision
unsteadiness
anxiety
memory problems
strange or unusual thoughts
unwanted eye movements
nausea
vomiting
heartburn
diarrhea
dry mouth
constipation
increased appetite
weight gain
swelling of the hands, feet, ankles, or lower legs
back or joint pain
fever
runny nose, sneezing, cough, sore throat, or flu-like symptoms
ear pain
red, itchy eyes (sometimes with swelling or discharge)
Some side effects may be serious. If you experience any of the following symptoms, call your doctor immediately:
rash
itching
swelling of the face, throat, tongue, lips, or eyes
ho****ness
difficulty swallowing or breathing
seizures
Gabapentin may cause other side effects. Call your doctor if you have any unusual problems while taking this medication.
If you experience a serious side effect, you or your doctor may send a report to the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) MedWatch Adverse Event Reporting program online [at http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch] or by phone [1-800-332-1088].....
In case of overdose, call your local poison control center at 1-800-222-1222. If the victim has collapsed or is not breathing, call local emergency services at 911. Symptoms of overdose may include the following:
double vision
slurred speech
drowsiness
diarrhea
What other information should I know? Return to top
Keep all appointments with your doctor.
Before having any laboratory test, tell your doctor and the laboratory personnel that you are taking gabapentin.
If you use a dipstick to test your urine for protein, ask your doctor which product you should use while taking this medication.
Do not let anyone else take your medication. Ask your pharmacist any questions you have about refilling your prescription.
It is important for you to keep a written list of all of the prescription and nonprescription (over-the-counter) medicines you are taking, as well as any products such as vitamins, minerals, or other dietary supplements. You should bring this list with you each time you visit a doctor or if you are admitted to a hospital. It is also important information to carry with you in case of emergencies. Brand names Return to top
Horizant®
Neurontin®
Last Revised - 07/15/2011"
Elena
quote:Originally posted by fadingout: The information you posted is irrelevant keebler. We are not keeping people on acetaminophen for 14 years or overdosing it.
Morover the pain suggestions don't work.
Please stop interfering. You're not helping people.
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Fading out, Just want to say thank you for sharing. I don't care about someone having an abrasive communication style. I get it. I hope you continue to share your finding with us.
I don't think someone needs to have a formal education to figure stuff out, MD's are trained to not think out of the box, just to memorize what they are taught period...and not to question it.
Posts: 845 | From Northeast | Registered: May 2011
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posted
>I don't think someone needs to have a formal education to figure stuff out, MD's are trained to not think out of the box, just to memorize what they are taught period...and not to question it.
Hello RC1, I definitely agree with that. There is a huge economic and legal malpractice incentive for them to just follow treatment algorithms that just treat symptoms. I think it's only when they have a personal experience seeing how useless their care is do they convert and try to help fix the system.
So I'm an equal opportunity offender as far as criticism goes.
A lot of people don't have enough scientific and medical background to read research and have no business giving advice. You can't just read a news media article and think you're an expert. Half of the news is later found to be wrong.
Posts: 57 | From Raleigh, NC | Registered: Jun 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Please, everyone. Consider your time & energy output if you want to continue (but please do guard your personal email address). Troll alert. Direct connection to QuackWatch. Couldn't be very much closer.
As with any situation in life, it's important to know the credibility of the source & motives . . . then decide what is true and what is a ruse (considering having been taken to court with QuackWatch for defamation of medical professionals - just follow the trail).
Still, we can take what may be of value (and then verify with medical and LL experts) and leave the rest behind.
I stand on the fact that acetaminophen can ruin livers, ears, and lives. Please be careful.
Moderators have been alerted. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Do you even have BLO or are you just a troll Keebler?
Posts: 57 | From Raleigh, NC | Registered: Jun 2011
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
My insurance covers most of my Enhansa, so I will use that. In some studies they were using 8 grams per day -- possibly for cancer? can't recall. But 2.5 grams is not so much when you consider that.
Fadingout, what is an appetite response? It would seem to be that this means you crave more of it?
Also, were you taking your 2.5 grams in little doses throughout the day, or just dividing it into 2, so BID?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
I don't see why ppl are having problems with fadingout. He has found something that is working for him, and he wants to share it. If his style is abrasive move on, no one is forcing you to read it. I came here years ago to find answers and I found them. Would it do any good to say you can do laser, rife and herbals. What works for me doesn't always work for someone else. And WHO in their right mind would start a protocol without researching the pros and cons? Just because someone posts a drug and given amounts doesn't mean you have to do it, exercise your free will....
Posts: 262 | From ohio | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
>My insurance covers most of my Enhansa, so I will use that. In some studies they were using 8 grams per day -- possibly for cancer? can't recall. But 2.5 grams is not so much when you consider that.
As long as you get an appetite response it may work. With me I used the long vida powder with set doses and after about two weeks I developed an appetite for it. Same for the green tea extract. It doesn't start right away.
Maybe you can get the company to give you absorption information and try to set an equivalent starting dose.
>Fadingout, what is an appetite response? It would seem to be that this means you crave more of it?
It's a specific physical craving for something (chocolate, tobacco, whatever) that gets sated when you eat it.
>Also, were you taking your 2.5 grams in little doses throughout the day, or just dividing it into 2, so BID?
Little doses. I think this allows the enzymes to progressively dissolve the fibrosis.
posted
Fading out, the fact that you are associated with Quackwatch is proof positive that you are here for one purpose only - to do HARM.
No genuine person trying to help the Lyme community would promote Quackwatch, which is a medical "Liars-for-Hire" service mainly funded by Big Pharma, but also used by the likes of McSweegan (who wrote its Lyme disinformation section).
You distorted everything I wrote and insulted longtime members here. You are here as part of an attempt to hurt one of our good doctors. elena
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
That makes no sense. Quackwatch doesn't believe in BLO. They would just say this is quackery because it's unproven. I've discussed this with them and we disagree on the issue. I found their position unfounded. Moreover, I'm a patient with BLO.
Which MD are you claiming I'm attacking? I already shared my personal MD in messaging.
Posts: 57 | From Raleigh, NC | Registered: Jun 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- You may or may not have BLO but you are at the top of the QuackWatch crew, founder & their ChiroBase twin.
You posted your name in past post here, asking for personal email from LymeNet posters. That name led to some interesting links from Google.
[your name]- Founder of Chirotalk: The Skeptical Chiropractic Discussion Forum
This site is "twin" and part of the operation of QuackWatch, having been linked as one with legal action against the entity for defamation of others' characters (as explained by comments from readers further down in link above). Legal action is easily found by Google with a cross search. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
I tell you what. This whole Lyme disease cover up and evil that runs through between deniers,
allowing human beings and CHILDREN to suffer, it's too much for me.
fadingout, I hope for the sake of humanity and anything that's decent in the world you are not lying.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
Irrelevant. If anyone (except trolls) wants to discuss treating BLO I'm all ears.
I'm ignoring you Keebler. You're paranoid.
Quackwatch already did an article stating that lyme is a fake disease. They're not trying to hunt MDs down by trolling forums. They would just pose as patients and call offices.
However there are too many MDs to do that so it isn't going to happen unless someone does something outrageously stupid like commit insurance fraud or hurts a patient. Then they would be made an example of.
Posts: 57 | From Raleigh, NC | Registered: Jun 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- But this is at least the third site where you ask for posters' email addresses, directly.
I was not intending to post detail below (figuring a search of your posting history here at LN, and the Google cross search function would bring that to light for those interested) -- but since you asked which doctor you attacked, here is just a sampling, along with your colleagues:
[Same address for both ChiroBase and QuackWatch. One and the same entity.]
dcphd writes: "You outright harass and ridicule chiropractic leaders, chiropractors, the profession etc. ones who passed away, also make posts in which family has encouraged you to remove... yet you now you want sympathy and donations? I don't get it. . . .I am sorry to say." (end excerpt)
So, since you asked which doctor "are you claiming I'm attacking? " (end quote)
apparently, it's a pattern. And the poster here wonders how a person such as that can be trusted. It's a good question.
That you are asking for posters (in above thread) there to be generous with their personal contributions to you does make one wonder, too, why you have frequently asked posters here at LN, and at MDJunction, to send you their personal email addresses.
But the QuackWatch connection (and their/your anti tick-borne infection stance) makes those requests even more curious.
What really caught my attention, though, [aside from the abusive comments you posted about some folks here - several caustic remarks that moderators deleted]
are suggestions you make for folks here to take what many consider to be potentially dangerous levels of acetaminophen, suggesting it's nearly required and there is no other way.
Although you are from QuackWatch, you may (or may not?) have BLO.
What makes me wonder is that, considering your "former career" in the health field & all the information now available about the risks of acetaminophen (at the doses you say are necessary), it's a dangerous suggestion that can cause permanent damage and it puts people in harm's way. Why would someone do that? (is the rhetorical question). -
[ 10-10-2013, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Keebler you don't even have BLO. Why are you talking? Leave.
Posts: 57 | From Raleigh, NC | Registered: Jun 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I don't know how you come to that misconception.
I never wrote that I do (or don't) have BLO. Whether I do (or don't) is not the issue. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Yes it is. You're obviously offended that I called you out for being an alarmist and giving bad drug advice when you are unqualified to do so. Now you are making the false accusation that I'm not being honest about this BLO treatment and you are engaging in irrelevant personal attacks to try to distract. This thread is about BLO treatment. You have nothing to contribute so find some other place to be.
Posts: 57 | From Raleigh, NC | Registered: Jun 2011
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lymeboy
Unregistered
posted
"This thread is about BLO treatment."
No it sure doesn't look that way. Fadingout, everyone here has good reason to be suspicious of you and your associations. Plus, you're being quite rude.
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