posted
I may be in denial. I don't know. All I know is I'm confused as to whether I have really had symptoms of Lyme or if they were side effects of meds.
I started taking 200mg/day Doxy 8 days after my bite. Had very minimal symptoms before starting...didn't even feel sick or anything.
Just had a little bit of redness and inflammation at the bite site and a couple of goosebump type cold chills.
Oh and it might have been all in my head since I was watching for supposed symptoms to come up, but I felt like a few fingers on my left hand were a little slow to respond one evening while typing. Like I said, that could have been all in my head.
The first two days on Doxy, I felt fine other than some changes in my vision...sort of feeling like lights were brighter and felt like my eyes were strained an dry.
The third day on Doxy, I woke up very ill(flu like) and started having pressure in my head. Also, since the bite, I had less appetite due to stress, but after the Doxy I had ZERO appetite. I believe this, and resulting hypoglycemia, led to the most alarming symptom...almost fainting multiple times.
I know all of these things could be side effects of Doxy...or they could be herx symptoms.
These symptoms continued until I stopped the Doxy 8 days later, although the flu like feeling dissipated some during that time.
I have now switched to Mino. On the mino, I have felt foggy still and still have vision changes. I also want to note that even before the Doxy, I have been spending hours a day reading on the internet and my optometrist thinks the vision changes are all caused by severe eye strain.
So, in your opinion, could I even have built up enough of the bacteria in my system by day 8 post bite to even cause a Herx like that? Or is it more likely that they were indeed side effects?
I am wondering if I just don't tolerate the tetracycline family well. I stopped the Mino yesterday to see if I felt different off all meds and I have not felt foggy brained at all today and seem to have zero symptoms. Well, except my vision still seems strained, but I am still spending hours a day reading on the comp.
Thanks.
Posts: 34 | From VA | Registered: Oct 2013
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
Oh gosh, I don't know!
It is different for everyone, so I can't say for sure.
Are you able to see your doc to try a different med? Maybe tinidazole, it kills all forms of lyme.
200 mg daily of doxy is effective at killing some Co-infections.
Were you tested/clinically diagnosed with any coinfections?
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
I forgot to share my experience of herxing.
Had 4 different abx, sometimes all at once.
Felt the usual-crappy but not awful.
Wondered if I was herxing. Couldn't pattern it out. Doubted if I was herxing.
Did this for 4 months.
Doc put me on rifampin and mino to hit Bart.
Well. I had no doubt in my mind I was herxing. I had ten days of straight hell.
Every Bart symptom was amplified by a hundred.
Had an incident at the pharmacy when I ran out of migraine meds...
So from now on, if I question whether I am herxing, I have something awful to compare it with.
I guess what I'm trying to express, is that I suspect when you will herx, you will have zero doubt it's a herx cause you'll feel awful.
Although, one strives to never reach the feeling awful part, as it can be deadly.
Also, are you doing anything for detox?
Perhaps if when you're feeling rough, maybe try some alka seltzer Gold...if it clears up the awfullness, then yes, herx.
I'm no expert, obviously, so be sure to run these questions by your doc.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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Judie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38323
posted
"So, in your opinion, could I even have built up enough of the bacteria in my system by day 8 post bite to even cause a Herx like that?"
Yes, it's possible. It could either be the Lyme or you might have had something like mycoplasma that the Lyme and/or doxy that got stirred up.
It was the 3rd after starting doxy that I herxed.
I increased my dandelion root tea and that helped.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
A few years after I got rid of lyme, I was rebitten and got a bulls eye rash.
I got to my lyme doctor within a week of the bite. I felt perfectly fine. The only symptom I had was the bulls eye.
He put me on combination antibiotic therapy to target lyme, babesiosis, and bartonella.
On the third day of this treatment, I went outside to do some light yard work. Within about 20 minutes, I felt the need to lie down. My energy was suddenly, strangely used up.
I laid down for about 30 minutes, then I felt fine, so I got up and went outside and began doing yardwork again. Same thing happened again.
All that day, I would get played out very quickly and have to go and lie down.
When I went back to my lyme doctor after a month, I told him about this third day on meds. He concluded that this was a herx, proving that I indeed had gotten lyme again from the new tick bite.
So, that shows you that you can have a herx after having lyme disease (and who knows how many coinfections) for just a week before starting treatment.
Remember that the herx is the body's inability to keep up with removing toxins (by sweating, urine, and bowel movements). So, some people who detoxify well will have very mild or no herxes, and others who have trouble detoxifying will have very bad herxes without extra detox help.
Unfortunately, nobody can tell you for sure whether or not what you experienced was a herx.
All I can suggest is to study the possible side effects of doxy. Can it cause a person to feel flu-like and have head pressure? And, can mino also cause this? If not, then I would chalk these symptoms up to lyme and coinfections.
The other symptoms (not eating, hypoglycemia, nearly fainting) do not sound like herx symptoms at all to me. They sound like doxy side effects. It is hard on the gut and can make people nauseated and lose all appetite. Then, the results follow as they did with you.
You have been treated for lyme by two different medical practices that treat lyme disease. Both of them thought you should treat to be safe.
You also gave more info on your case at the following thread:
Your medical history includes finding an attached tick, removing it, getting a red, blister-like wound at the spot, getting various symptoms, etc.
So, I think it would be smart to just continue treatment for at least 6 weeks and be on the lookout for symptoms, a flare at the 4th week of treatment (classic lyme flare occurs then), and any other constitutional symptoms.
You have nearly nothing to lose by treating this bite prophylactically and lots to lose by not treating it.
Page 19 of Burrascano says that the treatment must be a minimum of 6 weeks for a bite with no constitutional symptoms.
I would say that to be safe you should consider that you had constitutional symptoms, based on the post I linked to. Then, treatment would be until you went at least 4-8 weeks without having any symptoms at all.
Do not count as a symptom anything that could be a medication side effect.
In other words, you are going to have to be patient and wait to see if you get any other symptoms if you want to avoid a case of lyme disease.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Most everything I have felt can be explained as side effects, so I guess that is why I'm confused.
And I'm concerned with continuing the meds because of the side effects 'cause a couple of days ago I actually had foggy brain so bad I got confused and a little lost coming home from the store. I've also had a few headaches.
Headaches, vision problems, and mental confusion can be a sign of intercranial pressure from tetracycline drugs...moreso Mino. IP doesn't always resolve when stopping the meds and sometimes requires lumbar punctures and meds to decrease the pressure...and sometimes the vision loss is permanent.
I can't ask my PCP about this stuff cause he doesn't know I'm being treated. He whole heartedly does not believe I have a TBI.
I guess I'm scared of doing permanent damage. I'm also scared of messing with my gut flora for no reason. That is what I have to loose. I've never had issues with yeast. Not to mention C Diff scares the crap out of me too.
Also, I'm worried the dose of my meds isn't killing anything anyway...and instead just making cysts. I've asked about more/different meds and was told that "I'm not chronic yet". I don't want it to get to that point if I am infected.
I thought about switching Drs...but of course the wait will be a while. And by then it will already be 6-8 week into treatment.
I guess I just am really not wanting to have to deal with all of that. Plus the cost involved in switching Drs.
I have gotten regular labwork tests. Haven't gotten the results yet though. I am supposed to be tested through Igenex this week.
Posts: 34 | From VA | Registered: Oct 2013
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Kudzuslipper
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31915
posted
think about this... they give teenagers months if not years of doxy for acne. I don't mean to diminish the fx of abx. but it is a pretty safe drug. the risk is if you don't take it long enough to irradicate the bugs. then each time you return the bug is more resistant.
If you have a dr willing to treat you for 6-8 weeks, go for it.
if you got bit 8 days ago, the tests, I believe even igenex will be negative as your body has not had a chance to build up antibodies. you need to test 4 weeks from the bite.
the other possibillity about your herx...is that this is not your first exposure to lyme and co. that the bugs lied dormant---doing what a lot of bugs do just becoming part of your makeup, but then this bite, initiated a response and some activity. many people think that most everyone has lyme the same way we have staph, etc in us... that it is just circumstances that make it turn from benign to a problem.
I just have to say, please don't let your fear of overtaking antibiotics keep you from treating, even if it is as a precaution.
i started having an odd rash 25 years ago. it was not a classic bullseye. i tested negative I was not treated. over the years I had enough doxy for other things to push it down but not get rid of it-- but I have had 25 years of odd problems...first these horrible rashes, that no one could help, then aches and pains, then gut issues that defied expanation, then came the fatigue and then total fatigue and word loss.
I believe had I been treated 6-8 weeks with that first rash... (which they would have now) I would not be living with pain, and not having to go on repeated courses of abx,
get rid of it now...
can someone else weigh in for ablyme... is 200mg a day of doxy enough for the a new bite? or should she be on stronger or perhaps a different drug? my pcp uses azythromycin for new bites now.
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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posted
The bite was 5 weeks ago. After one week I was on Doxy for about a week and then switched to Minocycline because I was loosing too much weight on the Doxy with not being able to eat.
I restarted the Mino last night. I guess I am going to have to bite the bullet and find a new Dr who will put me on something stronger/better or at least an additional drug for cysts.
Or should I maybe self treat the cysts with herbals?
Posts: 34 | From VA | Registered: Oct 2013
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Kudzuslipper
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31915
posted
Oh sorry, I confused your timeline. Then your tests should show something. You could start taking grapefruit seed extract with the mino. Often called GSE. Start slow, 1 pill 2 x a day then you can up it to 2 pills 2 x a day. ( the tablets I started with were 125mg--- if what you get is higher dont double) The only thing I wonder is if mino being in the same family as doxy won't kill the bugs once the cysts are busted. Sounds like your family doctor might subscribe you a bacterialcidal abx (as opposed to bacteriastatic like doxy and mino) until you can find an llmd.
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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posted
I am seeing an LLMD, but not a good one I think. The mino dose I'm on is the same as the Doxy dose I was on....200mg/day. My family doc wont prescribe me anything. He is not on board with a Lyme diagnosis and does not know I am being treated by the LLMD.
I am thinking the same thing about the Mino not killing anything once cysts are open at this low dose. And everything I read says most people can't tolerate Mino at a higher dose...I am pretty sure that is why they usually give Doxy instead of Mino cause you can get higher dosages on it.
Posts: 34 | From VA | Registered: Oct 2013
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