Topic: HELP positional vertigo & abx? & epley manuever?
Kudzuslipper
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31915
posted
nothing freaks me out more than vertigo. I spent 5 weeks 10 years ago, before lyme dx with room spinning vertigo. the ENT said it would resolve... eventually after 5 weeks of being housebound, I begged for testing. the technician said, I know what is wrong with you and I can fix it. (benign positional vertigo) she whipped me back on the table, turned my head, sat me up put a neck collar on me and I was not dizzy for the first time in 5 weeks. I was furious that the system made me suffer for so long before doing this simple (to them) maneuver.
ok, so that is the back story. I seem to have this again. I have been on abx (azythromycin) for 19 days. vertigo is a side effect. is this just coincidence? do I stop the abx? or is this a die off? I have had a new transient symptom about every 2 days since starting the zyth.
But the dizziness (room spinning at times) freaks me out, as it makes me housebound. I never had this through my 18 months of multiple abx treatment.
do I try to do the epley maneuver on my own... there are patient handouts online?
do I trust that an emergency room could do this for me? or a dr's express?
or do I wait... go through the system and get in with an ENT?
why is everything so confusing?
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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GretaM
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posted
Hi Kudzu,
I am sorry the vertigo is hanging around
Not a good feeling, I'm sure.
I know there are Epley Maneuvers available online and on youtube.
Personally, if it was me, I would leave it to the professionals.
Is there a massage therapist in your area that can do the epley maneuver?
if it was me, I would get the epley ASAP. That way, if it didn't improve after the epley, I could determine if it was a side effect or a herx.
Hope there is someone who can help you with groceries and dog walking and such while you have the vertigo.
Best Greta
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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Kudzuslipper
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Member # 31915
posted
Hi Greta. Thanks for replying. Luckily, DH is taking care if everything. I do believe is getting tired of my one dilemma after another.
I wouldn't have thought to ask a massage therapist about the epley. I will ask mine. I thought I would need an ENT.
I too am hesitant to do it myself as 10 years ago my then PCP thought she knew what she was doing (since her husband was an ENT) did the maneuver I felt worse, she sent me home with a diagram and instructions to keep doing it. I kept getting worse. When finally done right, I was told it was only to be done once. So I know more now, and could possibly try it myself once. But I am hesitant. Cause at least the room isn't spinning.
In your opinion, if the epley worked, would that mean it was non related? If it didn't work, a possible Herx or side effect?
Anyone know, Can I do any harm in terms of resistance by not taking the azyth for a day or so?
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
Hey Kudz- so sorry to hear, I don't know about vertigo, except add some pure salt to water,
but Azith. builds up in the body w/ a very long half life- my non professional opinion, I would take a break.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Catgirl
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posted
You poor thing. There is nothing worse than vertigo (I'd rather herx). My vertigo put me in the hospital (I had it for months). I couldn't walk two steps without vomiting. I did the exercises the neuro and phys therapist suggested. It helped, but acupuncture actually helped me more.
Then over the course of the next two years it reared its ugly head again and again. I got lots of acupuncture to deal with it (helped). It was only after taking a shot at treating for parasites though that I discovered it was parasite related. Treatment got rid of my vertigo.
I would do the exercise and start treating for parasites asap. Parasites go everywhere they can, and IMO, everyone has them.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- The Epley maneuver can be fabulous for one kind of vertigo, BPV (as you experienced in the past). Not for so many other kinds, though.
If the vertigo is from azithromycin (as you say), the Epley maneuver will not help.
There are specific tests that an ear specialist would do BEFORE even considering the Epley maneuver because, if BPV is not the cause, vertigo could get worse, and for quite a while.
While "positional" is in the name of BPV, not all kinds of vertigo that spin more when you shift your head are due to BPV. BPV has to do with the crystals in the ear being the cause when they are out of place.
Still, that said, there are some GENTLE kinds of yoga movements that you could try yourself (see the link below). But don't let anyone "do" the Epley on you unless they are trained in diagnostics and the procedure.
Sorry that I can't sort out both the Zith related vertigo posts and those for Epley but maybe someone near you can.
The thing to remember is that zith-induced vertigo can be due to the ototoxic nature of it and not enough liver support. While liver / kidney support generally seems to help protect ears from ototoxic drugs like zith (at least to some degree), it may not be enough in all cases.
It could be that the herxheimer is just too strong but it's important to consider the ototoxicity of this and maybe switch to an Rx that does not have the same potential for inner ear damage.
I really feel for you. I hope this gets better. Wish I could sort out for you but my eyes can't do that right now.
LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Kudzuslipper
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Member # 31915
posted
Oh Keebler, thank you for even wanting to sort this out for me. I appreciate the thought, and the info on azythromycin being ototoxic. And liver kidney support.
I was on zyth for 8 weeks with no vestibular symptoms before. But I guess like everything it all depends on other things going on.
Surprise, like always I tend to agree.
Catgirl, thank you. Omg how did you live with this for years? I was ready to kill after 5 weeks last time.
Does anyone know, if it is caused by the zyth if stopping it will resolve it?
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- It may resolve, it could take time, though.
Just thought of these two homeopathics that might help ease symptoms:
Tabacum 30 (Boiron is one good brand)
Cocculus Indicus 30
you can take separately or together. They have worked magic for me on a flight.
Magnesium, too, can help calm the nerve endings and "sparking" of the angry nerve fibers (my term). Coconut Oil as well.
and lying with head higher than legs, elevated to just a 30 % angle from the hips (not just elevated at the neck) so that your torso remains in good ergonomic line.
That 30 % angle is the only position in which the inner ear is able to rest and get good circulation. It can help calm down things.
You asked if you stop zith if the vertigo will stop? I can't say. For me, with several attempts at tolerating zith, it usually took about a week for vertigo to start settling until it just would not go away after about the 4th attempt at zith which will be my last.
Andrographis is what helped my ears the most in the wake of zith. But that took a while. Later, two months into Berberine, it seemed to help me be able to move my head when turning about in the kitchen preparing food and not pass out (and BPV is not one of my dx).
I hope you can get some diagnostic clues and expert help as to if BPV is involved this time. If so, relief could be sooner and the zith might settle down (it does for some - it's just hard to predict).
Tomorrow is a holiday but some doctors' offices may be open. See if there is a neurotologist near you - but they really need to be LL, too, or they could cause harm. Your LLMD may be able to refer you.
Some who may not be LL and not fully trained in this maneuver might suddenly twist the head / neck. Sudden twisting of neck / spine should NEVER be done for someone with lyme and can make a lot of things worse with brain and nerve symptoms. -
[ 11-10-2013, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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I truly feel for you ! Dizziness was one of my first symptoms. It can be disabling and very scary.
I w/to a neurotologist and had all the vestibular test done. He also had me see a vestibular therapist for two months. She did an epley maneuver and I had to sleep upright for two nights...Didn't help because it wasn't vestibular it was neuro lyme (didn't know it though)
She told me that the little "rocks" can sometimes fall out of place again if it is BPV. So, I would try it yourself @ home. You can find it on the internet. It's very easy to do.
I really do hope you find relief from this Posts: 83 | From Tennessee | Registered: May 2010
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ukcarry
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18147
posted
I have had and still get terrible vertigo at times, so have read quite a bit about it, and I came to the conclusion for me that it was not right to do this manoeuvre when the vertigo was from lyme. I would consult an experienced Lyme doctor before trying these yourself.
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lax mom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38743
posted
I had BPPV when my son was a baby...sooo scary.
The audiologist who did the Epley maneuver in the office gave me a handout. I also did it at home and it went away.
I would try it to see if it helps. It's very gentle.
Kudzuslipper
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Member # 31915
posted
trying very hard to stay positive. I am ok if I stay put.
but I am not taking any zyth today (and I didn't last night either.)
why do these things always happen on a holiday weekend? If only I had the day off tomorrow...
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Kudzuslipper
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Member # 31915
posted
AN EAR INFECTION! In both ears! Hopefully that is why I am dizzy. Talk about occums razor! I was so busy looking at herxes and side fx I didn't even think about my ears. So I get to finally try bactrim.
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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surprise
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posted
Oh golly!
I had my first dance w/ Bactrim recently- threw away the rest, mostly because of my gut stuff.
Curious what you think of it, and get well soon w/ your ears!
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
Like my PCP, somewhat mostly lyme literate(I've helped him with his lyme education) says....everything is not the lyme. There could be something else going on.
Sometimes he's right and sometimes it is the lyme sir!!!!
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
How common is vertigo with taking Zith? I am about to start it soon. My LLMD didn't mention side effects.
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