posted
It occurred to me today that many of the side effects that we collectively experience while on abx combos are actually things that our theoretical uninfected twins would also experienceif they were to take the same meds.
In November + December, I was taking various combos of Mepron, Bactrim & Zith. I noticed a meaningful mood shift take place slowly starting in November and ramping up throughout December. I became uninterested in most social activities, my patience had deteriorated and my sex drive decreased significantly. It was subtle at first and progressed slowly to a point where I noticed it all the time. From what I've read, it seems like those sx are not uncommon... particularly for Mepron/ZIth/Bactrim.
Interestingly, all of those mood symptoms aggressively reversed within 48 hours of cessation of the abx. It was a welcome relief, particularly the rapid resurgence of my sex drive.
While those symptoms could be the result of die-off... is it also possible that I would have felt the exact same way even if I was infection free?
I'm starting to think that a lot of the struggles we experience on heavy meds are unavoidable. In other words, we would have similar sx while taking them even without Lyme& Co. I am not suggesting that our abx are not needed, because I feel that they are. However, I am saying that each of us experiences sx to some extent and I think that many of them could just be our body's unique reactions to these compounds. Herx/Die-off's are real, but I don't think it's the whole story.
Posts: 58 | From Virginia | Registered: Nov 2013
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- No doubt the infections are toxic and that treatment can be a rough ride, too.
Can't "talk" now but support methods are essential to help prevent as much as possible the effects you describe:
LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Mepron causes depression in many people. It manifests as you are describing.
Because so many on Mepron have experienced it, it is discussed on LymeNet from time to time. The most memorable thread was called "Mepron Blues."
You can use the "search" feature on this site to find this thread and all the others like it that came after it. "Search" is near the top of the screen under "Post a Poll." Just type in "Mepron Blues" and select "Medical Questions" and it should come right up.
This side effect of Mepron may not be discussed in the package insert, but most lyme doctors know about it (except those still learning). The patients definitely know about it!
A friend of mine started to make plans to kill herself while on Mepron. She told me she had come up with 2 plans so far. I told her it was time to stop Mepron!!
Experienced users say to stop the Mepron for a few days until this side effect goes away. Then, start it up again.
Below is a page from a lyme disease book. It mentions some of the serious side effects from Mepron and other medications used to treat the coinfections of lyme disease. Patients really need to become familiar with the possible side effects of every medication they take. This way, they will know if they are experiencing a side effect or not.
Some side effects can be life threatening. So, it is really important to read up on the side effects of these medications. For example, a friend of mine turned yellow on Mepron. That requires an immediate call to the doctor and the stopping of the drug until the results of liver tests return to normal.
GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
That is an interesting question, J77.
I'm still out on the answer, but I am contemplating it seriously.
I have been ill for 13 years with TBD.
To be honest, I am having a bit of an identity crisis-not sure how much of my personality was influenced by the TBD before treatment.
Maybe my 'normal' frame of mind is the one I had during bart treatment...
Or maybe my 'normal' fram of mind is the one I have today, with no bart treatment.
I don't know.
But I do know there is a big difference in my personality and outlook on abx vs. not on abx for bart.
I will know on Wednesday when I start levaquin.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
I've read boards where people get put on the 3 antibiotic protocol for H Pylori, they get a little tired, no where close to Lyme/ TBI herx,
same with folks put on Flagyl 3x a day for c. diff., no Lyme type herx, females on Cipro, Levaquin for reoccurring bladder or kidney infections, no painful Bart die off...
Tindamax for female issues, whereas entrenched Lyme person severely herx's with Tindy at first...
Yes, antibiotics can have some side affects, but IMO, if Lyme and TBI are there, it's a whole different ball game.
I also think we need to be extremely careful with gut flora while on treatment - no sugar and low carb, high probiotic, otherwise that will take over and impede progress. Liver support. Detox.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
I pretty much agree with surprise. Most meds do have known side effects, but the herx is unique to tickborne patients.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Kudzuslipper
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31915
posted
I would ask how long people stay on abx for the other ailments? I know I feel great albeit a little tired and sometimes an upset stomach on any new abx. But after a month I start getting symptoms. This happened on bactrim recently...
But most my theory comes from taking flagyl and Cipro several short courses over years for diverticulitis... This would be 3 times a day for 14 days... Each time I was euphoric.
But when I was on Cipro for months while pulsing flagyl every two weeks for two weeks... The first pulse I felt great... The 2nd pulse I got depressed at one point in the 2 weeks... The remaining pulses I would get severely depressed on the 4th day that would last the rest of the two weeks. (Understanding the pattern helped)
I didn't think about this til the incident with bactrim, where i felt absolutely terrific for the first course but when my dr contued it i started going down hill...
but most people aren't on the types of abx we are on for more than 3 weeks at a time... We are the lab rats for extended use symptoms.
I do think I feel more like me off of abx... But Lyme like symptoms do start to come back...
It's a dilemma.
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by TF: Mepron causes depression in many people. It manifests as you are describing.
Because so many on Mepron have experienced it, it is discussed on LymeNet from time to time. The most memorable thread was called "Mepron Blues."
This side effect of Mepron may not be discussed
A friend of mine started to make plans to kill herself while on Mepron. She told me she had come up with 2 plans so far. I told her it was time to stop Mepron!!
hmmm. and when I brought up the discussion about antibiotics having the side effect of depression and possible suicide the thread was removed.
Posts: 803 | From USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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