posted
Can someone give me insight... if you get a bacterial cold, or an infection etc, you take a course of antibiotics for 7-10 days or even a few weeks and the infection clears.
But why with Lyme disease do we take antibiotics for an extended period of time, with NO ending date in mind?
I just don't understand. Why does the Lyme infection/bacteria take sooooo long to clear up?
Posts: 37 | From NJ | Registered: Nov 2013
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
It's a slow grower, lives in tissue that is difficult for the abx to reach bactericidal concentrations in, and it changes its form when it senses abx and other threats like heat.
It hides from the immune system by changing its surface protein. Uses Dna from the hosts Dna to evolve to its environment. Same thing with bartonella.
Basically.
My brain is fog n' smog today.
But that is it in a nutshell.
Others will chime in soon.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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lax mom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38743
posted
Other serious, complex, complicated, stealth infections have no treatment end date...you treat until.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- It is true that stealth infections will require whatever they require for as long as . . . .
Heard a radio interview with Any Tan yesterday (and national syndicated one, "Flashpoint" I think) and she said it took her about 7 years on combination and rotation antibiotic treatment to feel close to well again, yet still has some residual issues.
It's very complex. That is why it's so very important to have an ILADS educated LLMD or LL ND who knows the science of lyme, other tick borne infections and all that goes with that . . .
The various stages of Bb, the need for different Rx for different stages and forms of it . . .
and about the support for liver, adrenals, nerve tissue, brain, etc.
Amy Tan and Dr. H, a LLMD did an excellent 45 minute interview. Sure it's available on line.
It was on an independent local radio station, but a national program. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Annie C
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14
posted
For starters they continue to multiply by cell division. Faster than Abx can kill. The bacteria enters the brain and by passing past the barrier wall. And Abx can't. And there is tons of reasons why. Due to all the co-infections. I'm not a Dr.
When were you diagnosed? What test was used. And what lab.
Stay close and learning can become frustrating. We all have wondered why. Testing can send you to the poor house with out answers.
I'm only a patient not a Dr or a Laboratory. Hope your research provides fruit.
-------------------- May God Bless you every day. And Never say never and do not give up no matter what. We need you to help others. Posts: 1288 | From Tetons Wyoming | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I was diagnosed over the summer but tracked it back to a 2009 tick bite. It's insane that they can hide and change forms! I just cant believe that it would take YEARS on meds. That's very scary
Posts: 37 | From NJ | Registered: Nov 2013
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lax mom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38743
posted
It CAN take years for some. Everyone is different.
My husband's success story is my hope in my household.
He shouldn't be well based on the odds. He had prior steroid use and immunosuppressant use during his 2 yrs of misdiagnoses.
1 full year of treatment and he has his life back.
posted
So how do we get them out of the tissue and out of hiding so the meds can kill them?
Posts: 37 | From NJ | Registered: Nov 2013
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WPinVA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33581
posted
On top of the fact that it morphs into different forms, Lyme also suppresses your immune system. For a typical infection, the antibiotics would knock out 80% of the infection and the person's immune system would usually knock out the rest. But that isn't possible when Lyme has suppressed the immune system.
PLUS, most people don't just have Lyme - it usually comes along with babesiosis, bartonella, etc. How is your body supposed to fight all of these things at once?
AFter a while, to me the question becomes - how could it not take a long time to deal with all of this?
Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
Thanks for those recommendations. I watched the movie under our skin and nearly freaked out :-) and I just got that book so I've been starting to read it. Dr. H has some great information there. I'm obviously new to this whole Lyme scene and it can be very overwhelming. It's all very scary…
Kudzuslipper
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31915
posted
This is a great thread for newbies... And those of us who start to wonder if we're relapsing or this us just how life is!
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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posted
After 4 months of treatment, my LLMD said "I just started treatment." If there is no adequate or reliable test to tell how long you have had Lyme disease for or co-infections, how does the doctor know that you will be on treatment for so long? I think she's implying for well over a year.
Posts: 37 | From NJ | Registered: Nov 2013
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Kudzuslipper
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31915
posted
Beat, the standard thought is that you stay on abx til you have had 2 consecutive months with no flairs, or herxes. A year or two is not unusual.
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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tick battler
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21113
posted
After we couldn't get well on abx after 3 years, we switched to herbs and that was the answer for us to kill lyme and all of the coinfections. Now we are treating parasites with MMS (chlorine dioxide) and clearing the last remaining symptoms.
I feel that the herbs are broader spectrum than the abx so it is more likely that you can get rid of all of the infections with herbs. And they normally don't contribute to yeast and gut issues like abx.
There is very accurate testing called muscle testing or ART testing which Dr. K's followers use. IMO, that is essential for healing from this disease because you can see which infections you have and which remedies work on them. Another option is EAV or EDS testing which is another form of energetic testing utilizing a computer. Both methods are very accurate if done by an experienced person.
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Be aware that integrative doctors can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first. Some have learned on their own from experts in the field. There are many ways to acquire knowledge and most are eager to share basic details about their training. You want someone with a deep knowledge.
Some of the specialities above may not actually treat lyme yet, for things such as physical adjustments, it is just good that they are also LL, at least to some degree (to know never to suddenly twist the neck or spine).
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,
LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail,
BIOPHOTON - BIONIC 880 (& PE-1) links, and
RIFE links.
Links for NEW BOOKS & ARTICLES as they come out. Start at the end to see the most recently published book by a very well respected holistic ILADS LLMD.
& WHY you need an ILADS-educated, Lyme Literate Doctor (whether LLMD or LL ND, or both) -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Lymedin2010
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34322
posted
1) It can change form & certain ABX that you might be taking cannot kill it.
2) It can hide within your cells & there may be ABX that are great in killing it if it were in one area/tissue/organ, but not in another. Different ABX have different absorption in various tissues.
3) They can make their way into the blood brain barrier & heart. Making it difficult for ABX to get to. If things were easier to get into there, then we would have many things that we consume that do cross & cause us many other issues.
4) They form biofilm where they are protected from even 1000x the amount of ABX necessary to kill a normal infection. Not even CLOROX can get to it at this point.
Take any & all combos above & you can see why it takes a long time & at times forever.
Posts: 2094 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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