posted
I get them from what I read it's a Bart headache.
-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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desertwind
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posted
I use to get them alot- horrible pain! For me bab.s and Lyme seem to be the offender.
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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nefferdun
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posted
Yes, I even got a brain MRI yesterday because of them. There are a lot of infections that can cause them - bartonella, babesia and protomyxzoa. With bartonella you can also get ice pick like stabs of pain. Mine is across the forehead. With babesia and Protomyxzoa, more behind the eyes. I have light sensitivity with them too.
It helps me to take imitrex immediately, as soon as I get the first twinge. If I wait, I can become so sick I can't stand up.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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Marnie
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posted
"Kids with ADHD have a hard time getting glucose to the frontal lobe."
As told to me by the head of ped. neurology at Children's Hospital in Chicago years ago. I will never forget it.
To counter...the body will upregulate the brain accelerator, glutamate...this is why:
In a jam, the body CAN use glutamate as an alternative fuel.
"Glutamate also serves as an important potential fuel reserve.
The oxidation of glutamate to oxaloacetate yields 12 ATP per molecule of glutamate.
Therefore, when the brain has insufficient glucose concentrations or glycolytic flux is reduced,
the brain mobilizes glutamate as a fuel (17).
In this regard, the energy available from glutamate is similar to glucose as a fuel reserve.
I know PERSONALLY...my son HAS to take PLP to stop his seizures, but...we still have a hard time controlling his anxiety...adrenaline = fear, fight, flight.
He "zooms" thru tyrosine-dopamine-noradrenaline-adrenaline.
PLP (active form of B6) is needed by an enzyme called GAD to convert glutamate to GABA.
Provided one does not have antibodies to GAD65 and/or GAD67.
Some bipolar persons have antibodies to GAD...so the brain "accelerator" is fully functioning...
My son's seizures began at puberty when in males especially, homocysteine levels go up a lot and additional B6 is needed which works with CBS (an enzyme) -> eventually...taurine, GSH (glutathione) and sulphate. Taurine lowers cholesterol and his cholesterol is low (despite his "supersize me" diet!). Low cholesterol is a marker for autism...and he has Asperger's too.
Take a hard look at GAD65 and its relationship to pancreatic beta cells...which secrete insulin.
canefan17
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posted
But it only happens when I start a new anti-microbial tincture (or even detox tinctures like pinella)
1 friggin drop and an hour or so later it's on.
I think Bartlnella as well. Flagyl once caused this for me but then it got better. That's one reason why I've always suspected flagyl has activity against BLO.
Thanks for replies.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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i am in the same boat...just started the A-Bab and A-V and my frontal headaches are off the charts again. i am sure this is brain sweeling...well as sure as i can be becasue my other lingering symptoms all ratchet up as well...Rubber legs and anxiety.
Dave
-------------------- On my journey to wellness - One day at a time. Posts: 989 | From NJ | Registered: Sep 2008
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GretaM
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posted
I would agree bartonella.
But also Dave, this happened to me with A-V too.
For fear of rambling.
November eyesight terrible. Front eye pain. Head pain terrible. Thought eyeballs were going to pop. Thought head would explode.
Went to non LL eye doc. Very lyme friendly. Very thorough in exam. Nothing to indicate pressure out of range inretinas. Vision poor. Needed stronger prescription.
Enter levaquin. Enter month 5 IV abx lyme. Various herbs. Head pressure improved. Eye pain improved.
But... Started seeing double.
Back to eye doc. Checked eyes again. Eyes have IMPROVED.
So much so that the eye that was going blind is now going the other way and may see 20/20 again.
Point of this story? The swelling was compressing my retinas and was affecting my vision. (even though it wasn't measurable ie: glaucoma measurable).
If you have pain in your eyes. Get your eyes checked to rule out non-TBD causes.
Then treat treat treat.
Because it's these darn TBDs. Period.
And there is hope. It has taken a long time to get halfway there but the eye doc was so surprised to see vision improve....
Maybe another potential ILADS eye doc in the works?
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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CD57
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posted
huh, that makes me think that these symptoms are more of a babesia issue. A-bab and A-V are babesia and viruses?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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canefan17
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posted
I think most of these herbs just agitate and stir up Bartonella. I don't believe they are doing any killing.
Buhner says you won't herx from killing Bartonella because it's lipopolysacharride that's release upon death is so tiny.
I agree with him because anytime I've treated Bart successfully the symptoms disappear with no herx.
He did say what someone could be experiencing if they "herx" is possibly hitting something else. But I think it could be causing a flare up too.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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GretaM
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posted
Canefan-I respectfully disagree with Buhner.
Reason being. Bartonella releases endotoxins when it is killed.
Endotoxins cause herx, IF the amount of toxins being released exceed the body's ability to neutralize/detox/eliminate said toxins.
He specifically mentions NOT busting biofilms for bart treatment in his book. Why? So the "colonies" of bartonella do not get released back into the blood stream and take up residence elsewhere. Magnets to endothelial cells is the gist I got.
He mentions this a few times, also on his website.
They are tiny, I agree. But if there are many?
But what if some poor devil has not just one bartonella strain (henslae), but perhaps more, (elizabethae et al).
And according to Buhner, in some studies, as high as 80% of certain groups studied had bart.
Which seems plausible.
But then add in lyme. The great immune disabler.
So the poor devil, (let's use me ), goes to Cuba already infected with lyme ( X2), bartonella (grew up around farm animals, fleas, mice, lived with individuals using IV drugs), and gets bit by a gazillion sand fleas AND scratched by a sick, blind Cuban cat, while trying to feed it bacon from the buffet.
Ahem. Back on topic.
I herxed like an SOB.
My feet and ankles looked like someone stitched peanut M&M's under my skin, ping pong balls under my ankle bones.
My torso looked like my cats had torn me up.
My temper flared so badly I was escorted out of a pharmacy by security.
My head pain was so severe if I had an efficient method handy, I would have used it to end the pain.
All this in the first 10 days of bart treatment.
Buhner may be correct if the infection is localized to a small area of the body.
But leading LLMDs, LLNDs, and severely infected patients disagree.
Something to do with gram negative? Endotoxin? (can't recall specifics).
Anyways, I think it depends on the severity and amount of bartonella being killed.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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canefan17
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posted
Ya you might be right. My LLMD is one of the top notch MDs and he also believes there isn't a herx.
I personally have never had herxes with successful Bart treatment (rifampin, Houttuynia, etc)
But 99% of herbs just made my Bartonella worse with no relief ever.
CD57
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posted
Greta that is quite a story.
It seems to me, from reading Buhner and then reading here and elsewhere, that multiply infected patients are more likely to herx on bartonella treatment. Possibly the bart treatment is also affecting other bugs (like Rifampin undoubtedly hits other stuff). As my doc reminded me yesterday "we don't really know what we are getting at. We may think it's bart but it could be something else".
Perhaps there is really is no herx if you just have bart?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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GretaM
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Yes, could be.
It's too bad most bartonella research is in the veterinary field right now.
If only the animals could talk...
I think that is the same with most TBDs. Our abx are all effective at a few or more...so what are we hitting really?
I especially wonder that with flagyl and tinidazole as well.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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Did your MRI show up with anything? I just had an MRI because of my headaches and it didn't show up anything.
Posts: 7 | From jackson tn | Registered: Jul 2014
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posted
Have had headaches too and in the past ct scans and mris have to date come back clear multiple times. It is pretty weird. Also feels like something moving in neck and shoulders. Seems like it could be filarial worms or maybe other nematodes. It reacts to ivermectin. Also it could be related to lyme as well it is confusing and hopefully treatment can beat it.
Posts: 135 | From USA | Registered: Jun 2014
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posted
My headaches are almost always frontal when I get them. Whenever the weather starts turning colder, they can get very bad when I am outside. They will eventually go away on their own once I am back indoors and warm. I can no longer go to outdoor football games in the Fall/Winter because of this. Many times I also shiver uncontrollably in the cold to go along with those frontal headaches.
Posts: 85 | From Northeast | Registered: Mar 2011
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