"Eleven donors with Lyme borreliosis and/or Myalgic Encephalomyelitis provided a fingertip blood drop which was mixed with BSK-H culture medium. Spirochetal forms were observed from each donor mostly within in 48 to 72 hours. Supporting evidence for the spirochetal nature of the agents is provided including micrographs from long-term culture experiments that included 5 of the current donors; and additionally, results from polyclonal fluorescent antibody staining specific for Borrelia species and Borrelia garinii from 3 donors."
Lymedin2010
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posted
I have seen most of those forms in my own blood smears. You don't need BSK media & a special microscope.
Just a regular light microscope or phase contrast microscope with oil immersion & 100x lens.
The spirochetes are more sluggish when I am on Doxy & become more active an move more rapidly when I am off of Doxy. I have heard of the two inter-coiled spirochetes, but have never seen a set of those in my blood....maybe because I am on ABX?
posted
I believe the really important point about this work is that ME/CFS patients could send a drop of blood on a slide (with or without any growth medium) and with the right techniques and specific stains, borrelia could be identified.
No ELISAs, no Western blots necessary. Sick people had the bugs in their blood.
posted
Yes, it's really important that some of the images represent Borrelia stained with specific anti-Borrelia antibody.
As the author himself pointed out, there are many potential sources of "spirochaete-lookalike" material which are not spirochaetes at all, so just looking under a microscope is not definitive.
The fact that SOME of the bright objects seen under darkfield, whether spiral in shape or "atypical", ALSO lit up with the specific fluorescent antibody, proves that these are Borrelia - in patients with CHRONIC Lyme and past diagnoses of M.E/CFS. Extremely important.
Elena
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Lymedin2010
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You don't even need staining. The more symptoms you have, like fibro & more scattered pain & issues, the easier it is to find them directly on live blood culture.
The ones on my slide have bulbous tips on either end, dance around erratically just like the videos. All the forms can be seen, the only combo form is two of them intertwining. I have never been able to see that particular one, but perhaps because I am on Doxy & it inhibits protein synthesis (which might be needed for this behavior).
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posted
It does seem obvious to us Lymedin, I agree - the thing is though, its the doctors we have to convince, hence the use of the specific stains.
It's better than looking at antibodies in a patient's blood, because they fluctuate and many Lymies don't have antibodies present, or detectable; whereas the bacteria themselves being present in a patient's blood means there's no denying there is an infection there.
We have to ask ourselves why isn't this technique being done in every hospital lab in the country?
Razzle
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Lyme does not always show up in the blood. I've never seen Lyme or Lyme-like stuff in my blood, though I've had live cell analysis several times.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Lymedin2010
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Razzle, I have had blood analysis too & nothing showed. I was in front of the technician & looking at the video directly.
They could not find anything, except for Rouleaux of the blood, which I think is a bunch of bull. Everyone's blood cells clump when exposed to air. All depending on how one prepares the slide you can get more or less of it & I have observed this in my own slides.
Go take a hot bath or if you get hot, then your blood thins out & you get less visible Rouleaux in the smear.
When I take a blood sample & look at it right away under a microscope, everything looks normal too.
The bacteria are hiding & INVISIBLE in your red blood cells. If you were to seal off the edges of the glass slip slide with an oil (like immersion oil or Vaseline) then you can observe the spirochetes coming out of the cells within 24 hrs & 48 hrs you should see more.
Alternatively, tell your tech to add 50% HCL to your blood drop on the slide & this will degrade all your cells & leave just borrelia dancing around.
I always wanted to do a youtube video to show everyone how I have done this. Maybe I will soon.
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Don't forget that Lyme can assume many morphological forms other than the spiral. If you look at some of the forms seen (including those labelled with specific antibody), they are distinctly NON-spiral shaped.
One is also a very tiny elongated-looking spirochaete, with just one or two coils - would a doctor recognise that as "Lyme" or "Lyme-like stuff"?
A tiny, perfectly-round refractile object could be Lyme - would you recognise that as "Lyme-like stuff"? Most people including doctors would not - but the specific anti-Borrelial antibody In P. Kemp's work tells us that it is.
elena
quote:Originally posted by Razzle: Lyme does not always show up in the blood. I've never seen Lyme or Lyme-like stuff in my blood, though I've had live cell analysis several times.
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Razzle
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Ok that must be it - they didn't seal it off and wait 24-48 hrs.
Fry Labs couldn't find anything (coinfections) in my blood either...
I think in my case, the bugs must be hiding super good, or they're out in my joints/muscles/organs/etc.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Lymedin2010
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Razzle, how many symptoms do you have? Do you have fibro & chronic fatigue? How bad is the fatigue?
If you have both of these, I can pretty much bet my life I can find it in your blood. To me this is a good indication that it is everywhere & that you have billions of borrelia in your body & blood.
There have been times when I take my blood smear & I only see a small amount & other times that my jaw just drops. To me this also explains the RANDOMNESS of migrating pains.
At any one time you could have an excess of borrelia in any given area & can lead to your pain. Your immune system comes in & attempts to clear it out & some leave the area by immune response, chance or chemical stimulants.
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posted
Bumping!
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Razzle
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Lymedin2010,
I have too many symptoms to count... Yes, I had a dx Fibro (disappeared with Magnesium supplementation).
Now I have fatigue as a dominant symptom (& meet the criteria for CFS, without the "official" dx)...the fatigue is quite severe (I spend a lot of time in bed).
I have no doubt I have tons of Bb in my body... It is just surprising to not see anything like what others see looking at my blood under the microscope - but again, nobody did the oil immersion or let it sit for 24-48 hours first either...
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
See especially the pages (linked from Andromeda's link) which show the difference between what is seen with darkfield alone and what you see with the polyclonal antibody. Note that there are what appears to be round bodies, tiny "short" spirochaetes, and other "atypical" forms which are highlighted by the staining but could have been confused with the "background noise" visible in the unstained slides.
Notice how the control slides with specific antibody stain contrast starkly with the ME/CFS/Lyme patiens' blood.
elena
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Lymedin2010
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"I have no doubt I have tons of Bb in my body... It is just surprising to not see anything like what others see looking at my blood under the microscope - but again, nobody did the oil immersion or let it sit for 24-48 hours first either..."
Well, you won't be able to see them without oil immersion on a light microscope. You need to use at minimum 100x * 10x = 1000x magnification & if you don't use oil at that magnification your image will look blurry.
Oil immersion is just placing a drop of oil on the slide, so no big deal. At times & with certain people who have been bit I see them without even having to let them sit for hours.
Alternatively to oil will be the darkfield, which readily shows them as well.
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