posted
Thought I would share the results of a recent Fry test in case some on the forum are interested in this less popular Fry test. It was the Protomyxzoa Multiplex PCR test.. It is intended to test for Protomyxzoa and many other types of Protozoa at the same time. Not yet sure exactly what to make of my results, but it certainly looks like I am teaming with protozoa:)
Overall result was listed as 'ABNORMAL', then there are coded flags listed just below it: A1: 519.4 B1: 265.2 E1: 258.8 E2: 44.68 G1: 20.7
In the explanation narrative below the results section, it states that there are a bunch of different 'protozoal clades' that they look for and have the designations A1, B1, C2, E1, E2, E3, F1, G1 and Protomyxzoa (A0). As best as I can tell the results format would indicate that I tested positive for 5 of those 9 classes of protozoa. Creepy!
I should get more information from my doctors office in the coming days that hopefully decodes the detected protozoa information into something more helpful.
*edited a couple typos
Posts: 58 | From Virginia | Registered: Nov 2013
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GretaM
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posted
yikes! Looks like you're swimming with them
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
This is obviously a very new test -- was not available when hubby was tested in early 2013. At that time the lab did mention that they were investigating multiple protozoa.
Please share any additional info you learn with the forum.
My question is which one of these is the original FL1953 protozoa -- maybe the Protomyxzoa (A0) that you did not test positive for?
Also are these actually babesia species or some other different blood borne parasites?
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Lymedin2010
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Bea, So you have Lyme as well? What symptoms do you suffer from?
Have you ever seen any pictures or videos of a Protomyxzoa?
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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Please share any additional info you learn with the forum.
My question is which one of these is the original FL1953 protozoa -- maybe the Protomyxzoa (A0) that you did not test positive for?
Also are these actually babesia species or some other different blood borne parasites?
Bea Seibert
Bea, My initial read is the same as yours... that the 'A0' designation correlates to Protomyxzoa and it was not detected. Oddly enough, I was confident that I would test positive for it. My initial Fry smear back in Sept 2013 was 'suggestive' for FL1953. I did this expanded test vs. the Protomyxzoa specific PCR under the strategy of.... 'I might as well look at everything while I'm at it'. I will certainly share the official interpretation of the results on this thread once I receive them.
Here is the test description copied from the website: "Protomyxzoa by Multiplex PCR: Screens for the presence of a large number of protozoa by our proprietary multiplex PCR method consisting of 9 DNA probes. Can detect many protozoa simultaneously including, but not limited to, Babesia sp., Toxoplasma sp., Protomyxzoa, and many more." Posts: 58 | From Virginia | Registered: Nov 2013
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nefferdun
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posted
How much did this test cost? What is the purpose of it? Does he recommend treatment?
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
lymedin2010 -- No I do not have lyme or any tickborne disease that I know of. I am healthy except for being somewhat overweight and have high blood pressure.
Have not seen any photos of the protomyxzoa -- do not think there are any on the Fry Lab website.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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A1 84.2 E1 239.8 E3 1.39(yes 1.39 not a typo) F1 186.9 G1 60.19
Through email with Fry Lab I found out the pattern A1, B1, F1, G1 indicates a bug from the group Apicomplexa of which Babesia and Toxoplasma are members. E1, E2, E3 are also Apicomplexa but more specific. So my pattern indicates Apicomplexa.
j77 - What are your symptoms ?
Mine are neuro - twitching, weakness, weight loss. Are yours similar ?
I am trying to figure out if these new neuro symptoms are from the bug Fry Labs found(likely something new I picked up) or if my Lyme made a drastic change.
If you have similar symptoms it would help confirm that it is this protozoa.
-------------------- You won't know how sick I was until you see me when I'm well ! Posts: 123 | From Colorado | Registered: Sep 2012
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posted
Very interesting. Keep us posted. In November, when I was with my previous LLMD, we were focusing on babesia, toxoplasmosis, and possible proto. We thought they were the worst enemy. She said some top LLMD's met and said attack worms then do anti-malarials.
Posts: 697 | From CA | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
Still waiting on the follow-up conversation with my doctor to understand all the coded flags in the Protomyxzoa Multiplex test. In the meantime, I received my Fry Pan-Bacetrial Metagenomics Test Results today. Nothing abnormal showed up in that one.
It tests for all sorts of stuff including Bart (supposedly). Here is the test description from their website:
Pan-Bacterial Metagenomics by Sequencing: Detects and identifies relative bacterial contribution and genus/species in a sample type by DNA sequence analysis. General antibiotic susceptibility and resistance information is provided for all bacterial genera detected based on scientific and medical literature. Tissue and fluid samples may also be tested. Dental requisitions are also available.
Posts: 58 | From Virginia | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
Very interesting, I tested negative for FL1953 by PCR but I reacted to medication like praziquantel, Hydroxychloroquin, metronidazol, clindamycin, Sida acuta.
As bacteria life within us all our life and are just controlled by our immune system e.g. mycoplasma, chlamydia .... I wonder how to identify the coulprit ones. There should be a reference to decide between very low, low, medium, some high, high and very high. would be interesting to know the results of a health person. Are healthy people completely negative?
Posts: 185 | From Germany | Registered: May 2012
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quote:Originally posted by jupiter76: Are healthy people completely negative?
I have the same exact question. I asked my doctor to pose that to Dr. Fry next time the talk. At some low level, I imagine there is need for a symbiotic balance amongst all the 'stuff' inside. Sufficiently knocking back the harmful items that get out of hand is likely a decent path vs. attempting complete eradication. I have a hard time believing complete eradication is even possible, but if it were... the collateral damage probably creates too many other issues that will counter the benefit.
*says the guy that is apparently drowning in protozoa:)
Posts: 58 | From Virginia | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
mycoplasma is a bacteria, but is different from the usual bacteria. After its first detection it was claimed to be a virus because it is so small and has no cell wall. It can never be fully eradicated and remains forever in the body once infected controlled by the immune system. Chlamydia is similar but not that resistant i.m.o.
The numbers indicate probably the amount of DNA that was found I guess.
Posts: 185 | From Germany | Registered: May 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Nancy L: Is mycoplasm a protozoa also?
What do the numbers indicate? how many of each type of protozoa? like 84 E1's?
Nancy, 'Mycobacterium sp.' is one of items that is tested for in the Fry Pan Bacterial Metagenomics Test.
I do not know yet what all the numbers mean next to the Protozoal Test results. I should find out this week though. Should be interesting! Until then, I will continue to provide a cozy home for all those little buggers:)
Posts: 58 | From Virginia | Registered: Nov 2013
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The only positive thing I can see about all these buggers is that a bunch of them have been living inside us and we were doing fine until Bb came along.
Our immune system was able to do its job.
Posts: 254 | From North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
Like dust mites, that sort of thing. Why the aliens in "War of the Worlds" were killed, but people were fine.
Posts: 254 | From North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
j77, any word on how to interpret your test ?
I am hoping it sheds light on my results !
Thanks
-------------------- You won't know how sick I was until you see me when I'm well ! Posts: 123 | From Colorado | Registered: Sep 2012
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nefferdun
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Does anyone else pay for a F test and then wonder what it means, much less how to treat it? I paid $600, traveled all the way down there to talk to him personally and all he told me was, "we are finding it is some kind of protozoa". Big help that is!
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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beths
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posted
I have a positive test too. Problem is no one knows what it means. I have actually been feeling ok. Let's face it- everyone has parasites and Protozoa in them. The question is : at what point do they make us sick?
Posts: 1276 | From maryland | Registered: Jan 2009
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Haley
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posted
This is interesting. I wonder if it is worth it to have one more test. I personally believe that the remainder of my issues are protozoa/parasitic. At least I know that anti malarials and antiparasitics help my brain (my worst problem).
I do think it would help to see that on a test as I have never had a positive test for babesia. Do they identify the protozoa or as many say here, they just state they see some sort of protozoa?
Question is - do I really want to spend another $600 on a test that no one can read? I even called igenix on my last test and asked "am I positive or negative for this?" They simply said, "we don't know if you are positive or negative". I believe that was another $600 down the tubes.
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
I agree. Just to know it is protozan is nothing new if the biofilm test is significantly positive and there is low respond to usual lyme and bartonella treatment.
I also seems to be significant -as I often read- for a biofilm protozoa if there is slow improvement (over years) under treatment.
Posts: 185 | From Germany | Registered: May 2012
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posted
I've been going to Dr. F for years. I've never had his tests done and he treats me for it all. I really don't need to know 'which' protozoan/parasite I have.
My older tests said I had 3-4 bands positive on the western blot. I also had babesia testing and it was positive according to Dr. H. I never did see those test results.
So, he's been treating me via those tests and how I have felt. There are many many new protozoan's he's finding. Not just one. Treatment is like lyme as far as each of us respond differently to different drugs.
I'm feeling ok to work full time and be pretty normal. Things come and go over the months and years. I do take three different things that I rotate. It keeps things at bay?
I asked him once that I should have a test to 'see' my demons... he said, why? My dad died of ALS, my aunt died of ALS. And right now Fry labs are doing huge studies on this protozoa maybe triggering this autoimmune disease. For this fact alone, I will keep in treatment.
I have had fungal meningitis in which we felt was related to all of this. I seem to have a fungal tendency to whatever I have. I rotate diflucan with malarone and Zithromax. B12 shots and I'm good to go! Not everyone would have success with this soup.
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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Haley
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That's interesting hadlyme - So you take Diflucan every other day and Malarone every other day? What dosage? Do you prefer Malarone to Mepron? I also have a good response to Diflucan. I have considered taking it consistently (after discussing with my doc). I only take it as needed.
Is Dr. F. still doing the low fat diet? Would you ask him what he thinks about taking lipase to bust up biofilm? Do you think I have asked enough questions Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
I take like a week of each one, one at a time. I rotate. I take more malarone right now than the other two. Only take Diflucan one week out of the month.
I used to take mepron years ago. I don't see any difference in either one. I have no side effects from either of them.
Diflucan will give me terrible hot flashes! And I did have a horrible herx from Diflucan a few years ago which landed me in the hospital. Fungal meningitis is what the diagnose was.
He still does do the low fat. And I have done the low fat. But since last Sept I have gone away from that and now doing gluten free. I feel wonderful going gluten free. I will be telling him this change next week. I think whatever bugger I have, I'm more prone to fungal/yeast things. Thus the diflucan sending me into a tizzy with that horrible herx.
I asked him before about things to bust up biofilm, and he at that time said just low fat. He's not really into 'things' to break it up besides low fat. Under a microscope starving the buggers from fat seem to break the biofilm up the best. Time, and more studies maybe this will change.
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by LuluBelle: j77, any word on how to interpret your test ?
I am hoping it sheds light on my results !
Thanks
Sorry for the delay. I finally have a consult scheduled next week to discuss the results. I will post an update immediately afterwards.
Posts: 58 | From Virginia | Registered: Nov 2013
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I had my consult today. Unfortunately, they did not have the level of detail granularity I hoped to hear. My Llmd actually spoke directly to Dr. F about my results to get a better understanding of what exactly they mean and how to best determine a course of treatment.
My llmd said (very diplomatically I might add) that Dr. F provided no real help. My doctor's voice had a surprised tone since there was an expectation that he would be more forthcoming in a clinician-to-clinician discussion.
So the numbers next to each Protozoal Clade detected did not produce any new useful information. Truthfully, I am kind of bummed. I think it is a bit sad that the purveyor and originator of a rather costly test is unable to give doctors more useful information about patient results.
If I knew before I spent the $600 on this test that the testing company themselves would not be able to even explain to my llmd the significance of my results... I certainly would not have spent the money. They should warn prospective customers about their lack of knowledge in this particular area before they take money for this test.
Further, Fry Labs won't share anything with me directly and just point me back to my doctor. But my doctor can't even get information from them to then discuss with me. Chasing my tail:)
It was a worthwhile experiment. At a minimum, it appears to be a safe assumption that I have a bunch of protozoa in my body and I will try out a modified anti-protozoa protocol that my llmd is putting together.
Posts: 58 | From Virginia | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
oops, double post. admin, feel free to delete:)
quote:Originally posted by j77: LuluBelle,
I had my consult today. Unfortunately, they did not have the level of detail granularity I hoped to hear. My Llmd actually spoke directly to Dr. F about my results to get a better understanding of what exactly they mean and how to best determine a course of treatment.
My llmd said (very diplomatically I might add) that Dr. F provided no real help. My doctor's voice had a surprised tone since there was an expectation that he would be more forthcoming in a clinician-to-clinician discussion.
So the numbers next to each Protozoal Clade detected have not produced any new useful information. Truthfully, I am bummed. I think it is a sad that the purveyor and originator of a rather costly test is unable to give doctors more useful information about patient results.
If I knew before I spent the $600 on this test that the testing company themselves would not be able to even explain to my llmd the significance of my results... I certainly would not have spent the money. They should warn prospective customers about their lack of knowledge in this particular area before they take money for this test.
Further, Fry Labs won't share anything with me directly and just point me back to my doctor. But my doctor can't even get information from them to then discuss with me. Chasing my tail:)
It was a worthwhile experiment. At a minimum, it appears to be a safe assumption that I have a bunch of protozoa in my body and I will try out a modified anti-protozoa protocol that my llmd is putting together.
Posts: 58 | From Virginia | Registered: Nov 2013
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springshowers
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posted
Keep in mind
In the last five years a lot has changed. Like Gael people are starting to listen to the parasite subject overall as a large part if not biggest problem of our body vector borne infections.
The tests Fry Labs was at first showing and proving biofilm prescience and second the types of infections inhabiting them and in the blood.
Just that research has taken doctors worldwide to see connections of many diseases and this issue.. The research contributes to identify exactly the types of protozoans found in there and the first one was DNA sequenced and named and discovered as new one by his lab.
The new testing methods of sequencing as brought to light others and it's not determined yet exact names and what they are but it's been determined its more than one. All protozoans. This is huge and great info for all doctors as well as the biofilms being there nests per day.
I witnessed my own CCSVI test and saw myself these biolfilm clusters stuck in my veins and you could see the movement of them as if live hive and those are blocking blood flow to my brain and back which is 1/3 of the blood flow of the body .
I believe my fatigue left is fully related to this as the heart and organs all affected by the blood flow blockages. I saw the blood trying to pump and litterally stopped at those stops where blockages were and reversing backwards and not able to get through.
To expect some sort if detailed answers as to exact types of protozoans is just not what the test is designed to do. After they do get that DNA sequencing part of research done it will be.
People need to remember this is research and is though to help see if you even have any if what he sees in the tests he has developed to guide you toward the treatments that can help Its huge and valuable we have such an interested research doctor who is doing this.
If you read up the medical community is validating the concept in many publications and looking at other diseases such as MS and others and agreeing its part of the puzzle as people still aren't able to define causes or cures in exact science. In our lifetime that isn't going to happen. Just like so many other diseases.
I myself without the info that doctor and lab has provided would not be where I am today. No way. So step back and look at the whole picture. Make sure when you order a test you know why and what it's for and why it could bring an answer and understand the lab and where it's at and why it does the research work it does.
They offer the tests along the way at differect stages of research and your expextations need to be in sync. Just felt I should kinda put a bit of perspective in there and many new comers may not have a doctor or be aware of this piece of the Lyme puzze as well as many other diseases. There is studies now for CFS and ALS and MS too and its probably going to be shown to be a large element of many duseaeses.
Think back just five and ten years back. This was not in the picture near as much or there to help guide any doctors or patients esp in the conventional worlds. The inter grative and alternative worlds already had a sense but this helps the rest and gives actual data and tests and research. Its invaluable. Its big.
I'm grateful and he did this out if his own care to try to fund cause for his patients complaints that were so unexplained and he isn't out living the high life and his office is so simple and he sells no products in his office and isn't trying to push anything.
He is a godsend to the world of unexplained suffering. We need so many more like him and so much more funding and support for doctors who take on this interest and route.
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Hi, I'm a newbie here, but looked into Dr. Fry's parasite a couple of years ago. I'm wondering what the treatment options are? I'm especially wondering about ivermectin, which is rather easily available in the US for animals, and is the treatment for African River Blindness and additional parasites, I believe?
somadoc
Posts: 6 | From northern CA, USA | Registered: Apr 2014
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nefferdun
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posted
Hi Somadoc, welcome to the forum. Ivermectin was extremely helpful to me for knocking down protomyxzoa. I have heard it doesn't work as well for people with the variants. I believe it is best to pulse it so you don't build up too much in your system and get side effects, which are not dangerous but it might make you more sensitive to it.
I took 12 mg everyday for two months and then it started giving me headaches. If I was starting over I would do it 4 days on and 3 days off. I believe PR is large so it is not inside the red blood cells like babesia so you don't need to worry about a full red blood cell turn over - 4-5 months.
The low fat whole foods vegan/vegetarian diet is critical. I use fat binders to keep my absorption of fat very low. It works extremely well. I can eat a more normal diet and each fat binder will absorb about ten grams of fat.
What has helped me the most in degrading the biofilm is LipoPhos EDTA. Goggle EDTA and biofilm. It binds with the magnesium and iron in the biofilm to break it down. EDTA also weakens pathogens making them more susceptible to abx etc.
EDTA binds with heavy metals first, which contribute to disease. If it binds with a mineral, and comes across a heavy metal, it will exchange it. So you need to take it long term to get rid of the metals first and then degrade the biofilm.
It is supposed to work as well as IV EDTA and is much cheaper. There is 2 grams of EDTA in each bottle and from what I have read 3 grams in an IV. It tastes horrible, so put it on a spoon and drink something to swallow it (like pomegranate juice). I can feel it minutes after I take it.
The Liposome is a fat that encapsulates the EDTA. It is reduced with ultrasound to a nano size that passes directly into the blood by passing the digestive tract. PR needs fat for the biofilm so it takes it into the biofilm where the EDTA is released to do it's job. You can take other liposomes too and even make your own with an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner.
I am off ivermectin. I just take it every once in awhile. I am off abx right now too. I feel ok but I am probably still infected with bartonella.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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springshowers
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posted
Neff. Would you share what fat binders you use. I agree with all you said and you have great advise that I myself have used. The low fat I find I have to get down way way low and its hard to do sometimes. I have though of a fat binder to help push it down at least a few days a week. Will you share what your using ? Thanks. Much. SS
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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CD57
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posted
Bumping this as I had a Fry test which showed A1, E1 and E2. I don't know what this means, and neither did my doc, who expressed disgust with Dr F Lab at my last appt, as he apparently believes that Dr F is not sharing what he knows with practitioners that would potentially help patients.
I am personally done with this lab. What a huge financial drain with the end results being just worry and stress, no answers.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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TNT
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posted
CD,
So, are those 3 strains the only ones that showed positives? Would you be willing to post the numbers to those?
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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My Fry had A1, E1, E2 as well, plus B1. I was told these were apicomplexa; we've been treating with ivermectin for several months; they're still not gone, but I feel much, much better.
As I understand it, this lettering just refers to the protozoal clade probes the lab uses; they don't necessarily correlate 1:1 with organisms, and many haven't been named.
CD57
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posted
I don't have any numbers associated with them. It just says I have A1, E1, and E2, and that I do *not* show the "protomyxzoa" which is A0.
In an equally unhelpful follow up: it says that the E group may be associated with an apicomplexia.....but also that E1 and A1 *may* indicate a fungus!
Scuse me, but aren't protozoa very different from fungus? This kind of answer makes me wonder what is going on.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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CD57
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Sicksci, thanks so much for that info re the Ivermectin. I wonder if I didn't give it long enough before giving up on it? With our doc I did once a week and then once every 3 days, but I think I gave up on it after a few months.
Are you taking every 3 days? Do you feel like it gets in systemically?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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CD57
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Sicksci, one more: do you have babesia or toxoplasmosis? I test negative for both of these, but they I believe are part of "apicomplexa" family.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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TNT
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My test also showed that I did not have the protomyxzoa, (or AO). I had been led to believe by earlier smears (and results) that I might have this.
But my multiplex test did have quantities associated with the different clades.
I think that is what Bea was referring to when she came back from the conference and mentioned that Fry is no longer giving out this info on the test results.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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posted
I test babs / toxo neg, but yes, these are examples of apicomplexa.
I'm at weekly iver at about 3x the standard dosage. I dont really notice anything when i take it now, but my first high dose was like instant relief of uncharacteristic depression, and other improvements followed.
Genetically, protozoa and slime molds sometimes ain't all that different. I guess the Fry clade test is just trying to capture organisms at a very high level instead of doing a bunch of individual organism tests a) so you don't miss dx's and b) it's so much cheaper than 18 individual tests, but still informs treatment.
posted
I have been part of the 'lab rats' so to speak that have gone to Dr. F for years.
I have never had his tests but in treatment with him. It's interesting to see the fungus part of this now, as a few years back I threw him a hitch that I ended up with fungal meningitis and was his first patient he started on diflucan on a rotating basis.
IT has helped me, but I can't take too much or I'll have a herx from hell and end up with meningitis!
I only see him twice a year now, but will find out more on this in January!
I know before these last tests, he had said that this protozoan was part fungal part parasite, part protozoan....
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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