Topic: Guts Are A Mess-Need Help and Suggestions ASAP
GretaM
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posted
Hi,
So I have been off all abx for 4 weeks now.
I continued with probiotics, gluten free and low carb.
My stomach constantly feels upset.
I have a very odd smell coming from me that is somehow related to this stomach upset.
It cramps so badly at night It wakes me up.
I am eating homemade fermented veggies at 3 meals. I only eat 2-3 meals because it hurts my stomach. It never feels like I put food in it.
What is SIBO and what tests to diagnose it?
It strikes me odd that my stomach felt GREAT on abx.
It is not c diff, as I finished my abx with super high dose pulsing of tinidazole.
I do not have gas or bloating, so I do not think it is candida. My tongue is pink-no white film on it.
Basically, it feels what I have always imagined an ulcer to feel like. Ok for 15 mins after eating, then back to the hollow empty and irritated feeling.
It is also worse after probiotics.
When I am eating, it is mostly me trying to stifle the urge to gag.
Any suggestions?
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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MichaelTampa
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Would suggest you find someone who can energy test you for the fermented veggies you are eating and for a variety of probiotics. I wonder if maybe different probiotics would be better. You could always randomly try no probiotics, and randomly try different brands/mixes, but might would hope to do better than guessing if you can find someone to do that for you.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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D Bergy
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posted
You could try cayenne pepper capsules. It reduces H-Pylori and helps heal ulcers.
Dan
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TNT
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posted
Hi Greta,
Sorry you're going through this.
You may have SIBO. Very possible with all the ABX you have been on.
I have found that I can take too many probiotics. What is interesting is that a natural health practitioner (who used Zyto and Asyra) had told me last year that I needed ALOT of probiotics. So I took what she told me, and it didn't help with the loose (not diarrhea, but mushy) stools, or my appetite.
I decided to cut back on the amount of S. Boulardii she had me taking (4 capsules daily!), and I noticed a slight improvement. And,earlier this year, I cut back to 3 capsules (300 billion) of regular probiotics from 4 capsules and noticed another slight improvement with my bowels (not as mushy).
But it was when I got on Rifampin that my BM started to normalize (still not perfect- hasn't been for a longgg time, but much better). Now, I usually have formed BMs, and the IBS urgency is pretty much gone. My appetite came back considerably, too.
If you do have SIBO and don't want to go on systemic ABX right now,, I have read that Xifaxan is what is usually used for this and only works in the bowels.
Hope you get to feeling better!
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GretaM
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Great! Thanks for the feedback everyone!
I will try all suggestions.
I am desperate for some relief.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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ukcarry
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posted
Greta, if you feel the lining is very irritated 🔥, DGL before meals might help, as might zinc carnosine with lunch and dinner. I also have been taking black raspberry powder, one teaspoonful daily to help with gastritis.
It has taken a month for extreme nausea, irritated lining, total lack of appetite etc to die down somewhat after a period of major bile reflux ( in both directions🙀)I am now eating smaller portions, not drinking too close to meals, before or after. Have an appointment with Gastro shortly.
If you suspect that you are refluxing (acid, bile or pepsin), you might also try sleeping with a wedge cushion for a while.
Yoy might ease up a bit on parasite treatment for a while to see if that makes a difference. In my case, I over-produce bile, but suspect that an intense period of parasite treatment may have added to the bile production. Just a thought anyway. Good luck.
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Judie
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posted
I was experiences horrible gut problems for 2 years.
I did all kinds of things to try to fix it. For me, the muscle testing/energy healing diagnosis was wrong and I wasted time and money on that.
I finally saw an ND who did a CDSA (comprehensive digestive stool analysis) test. There are so many types of infections that can take over the gut.
We traced the problem back to starting 2 years before when I did a course of antibiotics. At this point I was bed-ridden, my body had wasted away so much from malnutrition.
After we determined what was wrong, targeted treatment turned my gut around in 2 weeks.
"Your CDSA results include sensitivity testing which indicates which medicines are effective against your particular unfriendly bacteria and yeast."
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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You are on the right track with fermented vegetables, but you might try some herbs to help remove microbes from the small intestine and some resistant starch to help grow friendly microbes in the large intestine.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Healing the gut takes time, energy and effort. You may want to start out eating bone broth. It is highly digestible and soothing to the intestinal lining. Consider taking slippery elm. Look up a recipe for slippery elm balls. Take whenever Fermented foods = good. A gut healing tea would be useful if sipped all day (plantain, calendula, peppermint, chamomile, licorice, ginger, fennel).
Posts: 274 | From United States | Registered: Feb 2012
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posted
I ate vegetables cooked in a frying pan with some coconut oil as my main meal for a long long time. I also ate homemade soups with bone broth. I think the cooking and mushiness of it was a big help with digestion.
You could look into taking glucosamine. I didn't take them at the time but later learned they are currently in vogue for healing your stomach lining.
I took them to stifle some serious sugar cravings I was having later when my digestion wasn't quite as miserable. Glucosamine can also help curb sugar cravings.
I still can't really eat anything processed no matter how good it's supposed to be for you. I kept trying to incorporate expensive protein powders and gave up when I realized how consistently awful they made me feel.
Even a lot of vitamins were just too much.
I really reduced my diet to very few things. In the morning I would have quinoa and strawberries and blueberries. Lunch would be quinoa and vegetables or maybe a salad as I felt better but definitely no store bought dressing and dinner would just be a huge dish of vegetables cooked in coconut oil or chicken or vegetable soup, homemade. No store bought broth or bullions or anything, even that was and is still irritating.
It might sound boring but I was really really hurting and it helped me start to feel nourished and that felt so incredibly good. Like my meals of glowing organic vegetables were a small bit of light in the hellish void I somehow fell into.
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LisaK
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posted
sorry to hear this Gretta.
I get this sometimes too but have not figured out really why, although I am in a confused forgetful state so much of the time anyway.
I think you didn't mention if you eat dairy.
by any chance do you know your blood type? For O blood people they should not eat any dairy including keifer.
my llmd says that the upsetted ness in me (like your symptoms) is from past abx use that messed things up. He said that feeling is all acid. I think that is what he said. I will try and find out tomorrow.
I had scopes done and they found nothing bad. maybe yours isn't either. Hang in there
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3558 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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GretaM
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posted
Thanks so much you guys for taking the time to respond.
I want to respond to each of you but cannot do tonight.
Worked full day today and brain is fried. All are fabulous wonderful ideas and give me hope and support.
Found out two causes of the strange smell from me Coworkers were taking a step back when I was talking. Sigh.
One tonsil is infected. It is very big and red and bumpy. When I pressed it with my toothbrush handle goop came out yuck. Sorry tmi.
And for some reason, I have a TON of ketones in my urine. The stick was dark dark purple.
No wonder I am stinky. Wth is going on with my body?
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
I had an intense case of tonsil stones once. I used to attach a straw with tape on the end to soften the edges to a vacuum and very carefully vacuum my tonsils. The ENT that I saw at the time thought that was a good idea... It was totally crazy. No idea what was going on with my tonsils but the crypts, the natural folds all expanded. I think it was like plaque balls in there. They smelled like the crud on dentil floss.
It wasn't from sinus drainage.
Maybe try gargling with salt water... I don't know how I helped mine really. They mostly went back to normal eventually and I don't have any tonsil stones any more.
I'd say avoid dairy... I think cutting out gluten helped and I guess all my other diet changes... Maybe there are tinctures or warm teas that could help.
The vacuum thing was just... I just felt so ridiculous but needed to do something. I also taped two Q-tips together and could push some of them out. I'd feel a little less sick after getting the stuff out of my tonsils.
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GretaM
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posted
That vacuum thing sounds like a neat trick. Probably very effective!
I used to have those too but bart treatment? (some TBD treatment) seemed to help.
I still don't understand why tonsils get like that...aren't tonsils part of our lymph system?
This is one tonsil, and the goop is liquidy gag gag gag.
Yuck.
Yes, maybe a good gargle will dry up the goop.
Blech.
I am hoping it is my body pushing out toxins in my lymph. Fingers crossed.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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Two things --- first, I wouldn't rule out C Diff, even if you did do tinidizole. There are a lot of different strains of it, and some are quite resistant. You mention a particular smell, which makes me immediately wonder if you do in fact have C Diff.
Secondly, the two things that helped me the most in healing my very damaged gut after abx were bentonite clay, and coconut oil. The bentonite was very, very soothing to an incredibly irritated gut lining. The coconut oil seemed to speed the healing immensely.
You might want to consider being screened for an ulcer, too - especially if you felt better on antibiotics than off them (since ulcers are generally bacterial in origin.) Ulcers can be really serious if untreated.
Hope that helps.
-------------------- "Looks like freedom but it feels like death.. It's something in between, I guess"
Leonard Cohen, from the song "Closing Time" Posts: 822 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006
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GretaM
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posted
That does help mini monkey, thanks.
How do I take bentonite clay? A teaspoon at a time?
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
I've had gut pain forever and recently it got worse so I tried George's aloe vera juice and it was instant relief. Note that aloe vera juice and aloe vera gel are two different things. The juice tastes like water. Never tried the gel but a friend did and she really does not like it.
A guy on earth clinic said that he used aloe vera juice and papaya to get rid of some intestinal issue. Can't remember what it was.
The gut pain would always get worse when I started to feel good so I think it is a lyme mechanism to keep the immune system weakened.
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ukcarry
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posted
I have some George's Aloe Vera Juice, but haven't tried it yet. iI am glad to hear that it helped, Lymenotlite.
George's one does not contain citric acid, whereas many other varieties do.
Greta, I bought John Brisson's kindle book from Amazon after having been quite impressed by many of his supplement protocols for gut problems on www.fixyourgut.com
It may be worth your checking out his site too.
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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GretaM
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posted
Today I did not have any probiotics, or eat any fermented veggies.
(Also did not take last nights probiotics)
I had some diareha, although I believe it is from the increased vitamin C I have been taking.
Will try two more days without the probiotics or fermented veggies and see if my tum gets better. Then will try something else.
The probiotics have frugliosaccharides in it, and one website mentioned they feed a certain type of bug.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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hiker53
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I liked the suggestion of bone broth and am trying it myself.
Let's us know what happens, Greta.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8890 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
The "FOS" may be the problem, Greta. They cause trouble for many.
Also, when you try the fermented veggies again, cut way back on the amount. They are ESSENTIAL, but our guts are sensitive.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Judie
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posted
Yikes, the tonsil! I remember friend kept coughing up this stuff that looked like cottage cheese. It was coming from her tonsil. She had them removed.
Yes, it could be the FOS causing problems. Can you get a probiotic without it?
Something that I take that helps my gut is Toxin Absorbmax.
It seems to mop up stuff pretty well. I take it away from everything.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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GretaM
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Member # 40917
posted
Thanks so much you guys!
I really want to get the comp stool analysis and also a h pylori test.
Does anyone remember how much each costs? I am pretty broke currently from the months on IV.
I am torn between two paths in the meantime
Try to increase stomach acid
Try to decrease stomach acid.
I remember a webinar I watched that said stomach acid helps kill bacteria. People with higher stomach acid could handle more colony units of malaria bacteria before getting ill, than folks with lower stomach acid.
So do I take a betaine and enzyme supp to try for 2 days?
Or do I go the other way, and reduce stomach acid in hopes to help to heal any sores?
Or do I not do anything and just try the beef broth?
Argh. In the meantime, I am doing beef bones in the slow cooker. They stink. I hate that beef fat smell.
Every since mepron and zith-my stomach has been uncomfortablle
Thanks for your support and advice everyone. I am at a loss currently, and SO appreciate your advice.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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GretaM
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Thanks Judie! Great info!
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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ukcarry
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posted
Greta, I abandoned my enzyme formula (Thorne's Biogest) and bought some AbsorbAid by Nature's Source, which has enzymes, but not Hcl, Betaine or pepsin that might irritate sore gut lining. It is fine for me. It comes in powder or capsules.
I also have low stomach acid, so will resume either hcl betaine or try apple cider vinegar when I feel more confident about the lining. PepzinGi (ie zinc carnosine) really does help with this, as does slippery elm tea if you are not already trying it. I like the d Limonene too, but some brands of it say not to use if you have gastritis, which I do have. It didn't irritate at all and seems to have helped with reflux.
You can read about these things via the fixyourgut.com website I mentioned.
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Ellen101
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You could be overdoing the fermented foods, or the particular vegs you are using are irritating to your gut. Too much of a good thing can be just as bad as not enough. If you are taking alot of probiotics as well as eating fermented foods at every meal it may be too much for your system to handle.
Unfortunately your gut may have felt better on the antibiotics but they have most likely destroyed it and now it will take time to repair it.
If you don't like beef then do a chicken bone broth. What do your meals look like? Are you drinking coffee?
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GretaM
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UKcarry-that is great! Didn't know they made enzymes without the hcl!
Ellen- um...yes, I do drink coffee. About a cup in the morning and sometimes decaf after dinner.
Ooh the loaded question. What do my meals look like? I wish I could crawl into a little cave from the chastizing from LNers coming up lol.
Yesterday- breakfast was salmon with coffee
Coffee break at work had can tuna, some Brazil nuts and a handful of cherries
Lunch I had chicken in lettuce wraps
dinner-salmon fillet, bit of broccoli and cauliflower.
it was a good day yesterday-although I am fully aware I don't eat enough
The day before- I had Swiss Chard and smoked tofu omelette that I had half for breakfast, half for coffee break at work.
Lunch I had roasted cauliflower and broccoli
Didn't have dinner
Ooh where's that cave ?
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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GretaM
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That is a fantastic website!!!!
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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Kudzuslipper
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posted
Hi Greta. I am gonna throw out something simpler. when I stopped abx after 18 months... I was a wreck. I stopped because of gut issues... but then for 3 or 4 weeks... I would vomit and poop out of no-where. I was so sick of dr's at that point I just hung on. As it turns out, my body slowly adjusted to not having any antibiotic support.
I did supplement with florastor twice a day and that seeemed to help a great deal.
the other thing I was gonna suggest. (which will be controversial) is perhaps lighten up on the "good for you" foods... perhaps til you feel better try a low residue diet... plain chicken, toast, rice, bananas... sometimes I feel, our bodies tell us we need some not as good for you carbs. if gluten free has helped you... just eat some rice, rice cakes, rice toast.
Although wonderful for you, fermented veggies can be tough on the gut if it is inflamed. I wouldn't take any new supplements until your tummy settles.
anyway...my two cents for what ever it is worth.
feel better Greta.
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surprise
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I found when in a 'bad' place with my gut, expecting it to digest raw veggies was a chore. Recently we bought a Nutri- Bullet which pulverizes all of it to liquid- nice results for me.
Or, I just eat veggies cooked. Raw fruit consumed started to be a problem, too, liquid makes it easier on my digestive tract.
Digestive enzymes jury is out- I honestly can't tell if they help, tried various good brands, finally said forget it don't want to end up depending on them.
And Kudz makes a real good point- I was strict Paleo (no grains) but recently started slipping in some of my dd's GF Udi's bread products now and again- and it feels good.
I also couldn't do fermented veggies- I tried- but what's working now is drinking my veggies or cooked (dinner).
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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randibear
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I tried fermented stuff. apparently the acid or whatever was in them gave me awful stomach pain. I had to stop.
I can eat yogurt and do probiotics but anything acidic tears me up.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
OMG, yes, the NutriBullet is awesome!!! I wish I'd had mine when I was in such horrid gut distress (veggies would pass through totally undigested back then.) I use my NutriBullet every single day, at least once.
You can sort of play around with dosing on Bentonite -- start with a teaspoon, and increase as needed. Too much can be constipating, so be sure to drink a lot of water. Bentonite is a binder, and can actually interfere with the absorbtion of meds and supplements, so take at least two hours from taking any meds.
Fermented things seems to work better after the gut is actually healed for a lot of people, from what I've read. They can be too much when the gut lining is actively inflamed.
I'd also suggest you stay away from any of the more coarse/insluble fibers, like psyllium, which can be irritating.
I had to eliminate dairy, too -- that was a bit tough at first, but it did make a difference. I seem to be sensitive to dairy. I use coconut milk products instead, which my body loves.
-------------------- "Looks like freedom but it feels like death.. It's something in between, I guess"
Leonard Cohen, from the song "Closing Time" Posts: 822 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006
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Ellen101
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Unfortunately if your gut is giving you trouble the coffee should go. I know I feel the same way, love my coffee!
Agree with the others in regards to veggies. They can be very hard to digest.
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randibear
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yeah add diverticulitis to the mix and what a mess. so 12 inches of colon later and it's diarrhea all the time.
so much fun I can hardly stand it.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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GretaM
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Randi-You are hilarious! But I am sorry you are suffering so!
OK, thanks for the bentonite tip! I am so broke currently, I need to try things that I already have in the house. And I have bentonite.
In the past, way way way before my lyme dx, I was prescribed prevacid. It seems to me, although my memory is the pits, the feeling in my stomach was the same as when I was on the prevacid. It had the same urgent, not diareha, but get-me-to-the-can-quick urgency, and the feeling of being punched in the guts.
I'm going to try the stomach acid experiment tomorrow, and see what happens.
Also going to add in some simple 'sticky' starches, like a yam, squash or even potato with my proteins to see if I need 'stickier' foods.
I don't want to go too far from the low carb thing because I am always worried yeast is around the corner.
Still avoiding probiotics and the fermented veggies today.
I forgot to add that all my veggies tend to be cooked, and it is great advice, makes sense so I will keep doing that during this phase of trying things to help turn it around.
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Fermented foods = good. A gut healing tea would be useful if sipped all day (plantain, calendula, peppermint, chamomile, licorice, ginger, fennel).
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yuck. Sorry tmi. ![[confused]](graemlins/confused.gif)
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