GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
Is there such a thing?
I know I have bartonella. No doubt about it. My doc knows this also.
The thing is, a positive bartonella test would cover more aggressive treatment and imaging tests.
Is there such a thing as an antibiotic challenge for bartonella?
Something to coax it from the endothelial cells in order to be found in test?
Thanks in advance
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
Can you send a test to Galaxy labs in US? It's a triple blood draw in a week.
Bart works different than the Lyme bacteria, so.... just make sure you are off anything that possibly treats it 2-4 weeks before testing...
Sorry Greta :-(. So you are going back to Bart tx? Just started my dd on rifampin this morning....
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
Hi surprise,
Thanks for your response. Unfortunately it has become to big to ignore now.
Insomnia, OCD, low level constant anxiety, nausea, cramping bladder, and head pain again.
When I try the BW, it is like stirring up a hurricane of bart in me, and the CSA now just leads to enceph after a couple of days.
I need abx help but I am very reluctant to go back on abx. The bart herxes are really difficult and I feel like I barely survived the on I had with rifampin zith back in the day.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
Galaxy was my thought also.
I wonder when they have their triple draw test on sale?
I remember last year it went on sale for a bit.
Also meant to add that treating bart with herbal seems to lead to depression symptoms.
I hope your DD is OK on rifampin and it starts to kill the bart for her.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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steve1906
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16206
posted
GretaM , have you ever tried these herbs?
There are four herbs that help to significantly reduce the prickly, burning symptoms of Bartonella
When these four herbs are added to an anti-Bartonella herb formula, the burning hot symptoms, rashes, and brain fog are significantly reduced and sometimes eliminated completely.
Herb #1: Folium Artemisia Argyi, Chinese name: Ai Ye1 The properties of this herb are warming, stop bleeding, and treat pain due to cold in the lower abdomen. It is used to treat malaria, so it may also be effective against Babesia. Research shows that it inhibits the growth of these infections: anthrax, strep, staph, diphtheria, pneumonia, and bacterial dysentery. There are no documented contraindications with existing medications at this time.
It is added to herb formulas to see if it will kill Bartonella. A ground form of this herb, called moxa, is also burned topically over symptomatic areas to expel Bartonella symptoms near the surface of the skin.
Herb #2: Dryopteridis, Chinese name: Guan Zhong2 The properties of this herb are bitter and cool. It is used to kill parasites, clear heat, and eliminate toxins. It also treats and prevents bacterial and viral infections. It was used historically for expelling demons. Research shows that it inhibits dysentery, salmonella, pseudonomas, meningitis, and S. Aureus. It strongly inhibits viruses: influenza, adenovirus, encephalitis B, and herpes simplex. It also inhibits the growth of abnormal masses of tissue. It is added to herb formulas to see if it will kill Bartonella and neutralize its toxins.
Overdosing of this herb can have certain side effects: nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea, headache, tremors, or gastrointestinal irritation. It is contraindicated during pregnancy. There are no documented contraindications with existing medications at this time.
Herb #3: Chinese Nut Galls, Chinese name: Wu Bei Zi3 The properties of this herb are salty, sour, and cold. It is used to treat chronic diarrhea, dysentery, and rectal prolapse. It is also used to treat night fevers, irritability, and excess sweating. It also stops bleeding, eliminates toxins, and reduces swelling. It has anti-candida properties. It is added to see if it will neutralize Bartonella toxins.
Use with caution with signs of heat, symptoms of sharp stabbing pain, or patients with palpable masses. Caution: this herb has a strong binding affinity and should be taken 2 hours before or after taking any medication.
Herb #4: Lycopus, bugleweed, Chinese name: Ze Lan4 The properties of this herb are bitter, acrid, and slightly warm. It is used to increase blood circulation and to provide internal warmth along acupuncture meridians. It is used to treat chest pain, hypochondriac pain, and back pain due to traumatic injuries. It regulates water circulation, expels parasites, and reduces swelling. It is to be used with caution in patients with anemia.
Since this herb has diuretic properties, is to be used with caution with diuretic medications. There are no documented contraindications with existing medications at this time. It is added to herb formulas to see if it will expel or kill Bartonella hiding in blood cells. Source: http://goodbyelyme.com/free_articles/coinfections/busting-bartonella
Or
“BUGNER” Stephen’s response: If you have bartonella, then you will have to treat it as well as the lyme. The best easy protocol for bartonella is:
Sida acuta tincture (from woodlandessence.com or [email protected]) ¼ tsp 3x day for 30 days Hawthorn tincture, same Japanese knotweed, (tincture, same dose as above, from woodlandessence.com or [email protected], or capsules from greendragonbotanicals.com 2 capsules 3x daily) ECGC 400mg +- daily Houttuyina (Yu Xing Cao – 1st Chinese Herbs, powder) 1 tbl daily L-arginine 5000 mg daily in divided doses Milk thistle seed, standardized, 1200 mg daily All for 30 days.
PLEASE NOTE: If you have active herpes, chicken pox, or shingles DO NOT USE L-arginine. In general, the most important thing is to decrease the inflammation dynamics that are occurring in the lyme (knotweed), increase immune strength (cat’s claw, rhodiola tincture – ¼ tsp 3x daily, eleuthero tincture, same), and work on the bartonella. Plus addressing specific symptoms.
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
So do you need the positive test to get meds/ part of treatment paid for? I think that's what you mean.
I know your symptoms well you wrote, yes I do- sending you good thoughts--- saw your post about ketek and avelox (spelling?)
not a common US combo/ availability, but good strong stuff there--- maybe just start real slow and build up- positive vibes it's your last combo--- you've worked hard treating, and all of it matters.
I get what you mean about the tinctures-- certainly I read that from others, too.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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lymielauren28
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13742
posted
WHY is bartonella so hard to get rid of??? I'm really starting to believe that Bart is the gateway illness that paves the way for lyme and all the others and not the other way around.
I've been on Rifampin, Zith and Ceftin for almost three months now and I'm still dealing with anxiety, panic attacks, frontal headaches, depression, mood swings, head pressure, bone pain, sore feet, etc. It is BETTER than it was, don't get me wrong, but it's still very much there.
Anyways, I don't know what to tell you about coaxing it out, only know that Galaxy is the best. My heart goes out to you. I've been treating on and off for a loooong time and just can't seem to put this baby to bed. I can deal with the physical stuff, the mental stuff is intolerable. Hope you get relief soon Greta!! *hugs*
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
Hi Steve,
I've been taking Lightning Pearls... I will check to see if any of the herbs you listed are in them.
The company that makes lightning pearls is very good and helpful. I may phone them to save my eyes. (small print on the bottle)
Surprise-Yes, you are right. I don't need a positive test for treatment, as my doc has clinically diagnosed me, plus I have the bart streaks and took a picture of them.
But it would help to jump through the hoops with other things if I had a positive test.
everytime I think of bart, I remember your post about how cats are very attracted to you, and you think they are attracted because of bartonella.
It gives me a chuckle, I am starting to think that way also, and now also am worried about bartonella from dogs, which I just read are actually more frequent transmitters than cats.
Perhaps my animal whispering is a secret kinship because we have the same bacteria brew. haha
Catgirl-Thanks for the reminder about proto. I keep forgetting about that one. I will review the symptom list. I am hesitant to test for that because it doesn't have effective treatment. So I am sticking my head in the sand instead. haha
Lauren-Exactly! Bartonella is so darn frustrating. I thought I had it licked the first time I treated it. Then it has slowly crept its insidious way back into the forefront of symptom-making.
It is at the difficult to ignore phase now and I need to treat it soon.
I am really hesitant to take avelox because I am happy with my tendons the way they are. haha.
There was a post on here about diethylcarbamazine for bartonella. I am going to discuss this with my doc as a potential alternative to the avelox.
Sorry you are going through this also Lauren.
Bart is such a beast!
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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LisaK
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posted
bart is the worst! I hope you knock it!!!
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3558 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
I think Bart must have a parasitical component to it that makes it so difficult. My LLMD thinks this and told me. So the DEC may be very helpful.
Lauren can you re-add a third intracellular med? You were on 3 for awhile. I think the key may be 3 intracellulars at once....
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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TNT
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posted
Greta, (or anyone),
Do you remember where that post is about DEC for Bart? I cannot find it.
Unless you are referring to Brian Rosner's comments about it perhaps inhibiting bart, or killing the parasites protecting it.
I would be careful in using it for bart for that very reason... of it killing the protective parasites.
But if it would have a more direct action on bart, it would definitely be useful.
I am so scared of what I will call the wolbachia effect. It's (wolbachia) known to kill dogs when treating with ivermectin for heartworms.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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GretaM
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Member # 40917
posted
Hello there TNT,
Yes, I wass referring to the Brian Rosner referencee to DEC and also some readings on other forums.
I may have read it wrong, but I thought the parasites were protecting bart.
Not the other way around and protecting us.
I do remember reading Buhner suggests NOT treating biofilms if one has bartonella.
I didn't know what wolbachia was. Fascinating!
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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TNT
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posted
The parasites ARE protecting bart! I may be wrong, but I think what is happening when a person has a worsening after antiparasiticals must be similar to what can happen to dogs with heartworms that are being treated with Ivermectin or Immiticide (because of Wolbachia).
(From what I'm reading), this is why it is advisable to use doxy with the heartworm medication.... it kills the wolbachia at the same time.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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surprise
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Member # 34987
posted
I totally think (experienced) a link between Bart and parasites.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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lymielauren28
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Member # 13742
posted
I'll say this - I took a hefty dose of Ivermectin last fall and I have NEVER been the same. It released the hounds of hell in my body. Re-activated every infection I've ever had, bacterial and viral and I'm still a wreck a year later. Biggest regret of my life. Too little, too late but I'm a big believer in letting sleeping dogs lie now.
CD57, I started relapsing with Babesia so I had to drop the doxy so I could add Mepron. So now it's Rifampin, Zith, ceftin and Mepron. Mepron and rifampin seem to be synergistic for me. I'm getting herxing from the combo of the two that I never had with either one alone, which is very interesting to me. Gaaaah!!! It so much fun being a guinea pig!!
-------------------- "The only way out is through" Posts: 1434 | From mississippi | Registered: Nov 2007
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CD57
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posted
wow, Lauren, no kidding! I have heard that.
If you are relapsing with babesia that means you have beaten down bart, congrats!!!!!!
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