posted
Hi All, I am almost never here. Mainly because I keep forgetting my password, :-) however I do have a question and would be grateful for input.
I feel that after 8 years of treatment and more abx combinations and herbal combinations that I can count, I am at crossroads.
To their credit the 3 LLMD's I have seen in the past 8 years have gotten me to a pretty consistent 70 - 80% of overall wellness. Certainly some days are better than others, but I feel that I need to do something else.
I am considering using an ND and just going with her Chinese Herbs and acupuncture regimen. I am trying to find a level of maintenance that doesn't include abx.
Has anyone here gone from an ILAD's protocol to just a Chinese Medicine Protocol and had success? If so, can you tell me about your experience?
The ND I would be using is an ILADS member so I am comfortable with her overall knowledge of Chronic Lyme. She uses Classic Pearls Herbals.
I am nervous about this and am going to wait, if I can, until after the holidays because I have always had very severe flares.
If you could tell me about your experience, good or bad I would appreciate it.
Thank you.
-------------------- "Yeah, I miss me too." Posts: 234 | From NY originally registered in 2008 | Registered: Nov 2012
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-------------------- "Yeah, I miss me too." Posts: 234 | From NY originally registered in 2008 | Registered: Nov 2012
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poppy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5355
posted
No experience here. Never felt safe going this route. But I am guessing you are not going to know if this works for you without trying it. Maybe others with some experience will chime in, got to be some people doing it, but as you know what works for one person may not work for another.
Good luck with whatever you decide. And I certainly understand why you would consider it.
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Can you tell me why you didn't feel safe going with an ND?
I don't want to be missing something that I should seriously consider.
I feel that I am so out of choices, and so concerned about all these abx. I mean maybe that isn't something to be concerned about overall, under the direction of my LLMD....I honestly don't know anymore.
I did meet once with this ND and she is of course confident that her protocol will help me. I am nervous because I have had other practitioners assume me that they have the key to helping me as well....only to find that they put me in worse shape.
It took me out of commission for months; one time it took a full year to dig myself out from a acupuncturist who left the needles in too long, Ondamed that made me feel awful etc.
I would appreciate any input. Thanks again.
-------------------- "Yeah, I miss me too." Posts: 234 | From NY originally registered in 2008 | Registered: Nov 2012
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poppy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5355
posted
I am an abx gal. I know they work and not sure about anything else. Nothing to do with ND, as I have no experience with them. Just doubting there is any useful alternative for me personally.
Could you contact support groups in your area and ask them for experiences with this ND?
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I think it's important to make sure the ND is Lyme-literate.
Wish there had been a LLND near us when we first started treatment for our son years ago to work simultaneously with our LLMD. Nevertheless, my son's current LLMD is very good and treats integratively, so we get "the best of both worlds", so to speak!
Look into the Cowden Protocol and Byron White formulas. Here are links for you to read up about them:
posted
Yes, I am aware of several people who treated with Chinese herbs successfully!
One of them did it in combo with daily exposure to a PEMF machine, to boost his electromagnetic energy. It speeds up healing, as cell nutrients go in and out of the cell easier with a ramped-up back-to-normal voltage.
I think we should try anything slowly, in a small amount initially, to make sure we can handle it.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
That is when the treatment gets harder: after 70-80%.
I would go alternative (since the start).
I would try energy testing, for sure. That for us, was the ONLY way to figure out what didn't work before. You keep trying, if you reach 80%, fine, but after, what to do?
All those things you tried before didn't clear the 20%. Those last 10-20% will take a smart guess to fix!
It is a combination of problems, probably, that can't be solved easily, that is why I would go energy testing with experienced practitioners.
I'm running two threads on the violet ray (an amazing cheap tool that has been helping me a lot), and the Neurophone.
I think these two devices are those sort of devices that help supporting your body (instead of only using killers, as there is NO END, if you only use that killing approach).
Anything you do to make your IMMUNE SYSTEM kick in, is good.
Exercise, herbs, homeopathy, any energy enhancing tool (violet ray, neuro, magnetic therapies, infrared), ...
.... cleaning the body (infrared sauna, heavy metal detox (non-stop binders for life), cleaning your teeth, jaws), cleaning your food (pesticides, GMOs, foods that cause you allergy)...
...powerful antioxidants (like Megahydrate, vit C in great amounts, etc), acupuncture sometimes, yoga or any energy flowing technique, ...
...KPU (zinc protocol for the immune system), Vit D3, mineral supplementation (meaning, all trace minerals we lack)...
Homeopathics do much LESS harm than herbs. I would give them a try.
Herbs do much less harm than chemical pharma products.
For us, we could reach remission (meaning 100% lyme symptom free) for a couple of months, only because we did ART and energy testing. We only used herbs, tapping, diet, few supplements and homeopathy for that.
BUT, we relapsed.
What stopped our relapses was photon + nosodes. I mean, that stopped borrelia to come back and bother us.
The rest (not-borrelia), I describe above...
The violet ray costs about 25-30 dollars. It gives me SO MUCH, really: clean my liver, my gut, reduce inflammation, gives me REAL energy, cleans my kidneys, kills a cold pretty well, cleans the lungs, bronchial tubes, even the sinuses, help strengthen my teeth.
I was in such a bad shape after lyme was gone, exhausted, and my teeth got rotten after, slowly.... from weakness.
The violet ray, really, a 25 dollar device, has strengthen my teeth so much, I can only thank it.
My lyme doctor is prescribing the violet ray to most of his patients. It tests much better than most of his expensive lasers, that he was prescribing before!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Here's an interesting paper on Lyme Disease Treatment with Chinese herbs by Subhuti Dharmananda, PhD, Director, Institute for Traditional Medicine, Portland, Oregon
Smilax Glabra(Chinese Sarsaparilla),taken in a tea three times per day (the Chinese version of Sarsaparilla) has been proven to cure 90% of Syphilis cases when taken in two periods of 20 days each. (But then again, Syphilis is far less complex than Borrelia.) Spirochetes are highly susceptible to the saponins which are in sarsaparilla. Here's the link http://leungschineseherbnews.blogspot.com/2007/08/treatment-of-syphilis-with-tufuling.html
(Also see my Spirochaeticidal compounds thread for a list of common foods high in saponin)
In general the treatment of Lyme in TCM(Traditional Chinese Medicine) is also based on the treatment for Leptospirosis, another spirochete. So agents that have been effective against Leptospirosis in TCM are used. They are:
Some of these herbs can be powerful and possibly dangerous so Id research possibilities online extensively before- and then talk to the TCM practitioner about each herb.
So far, the only one I have taken above is Sarsaparilla (smilax) with no bad effects-- it tastes fine in Soda water 3 times a day!
Mangosteen juice is not part of TCM, but I did notice today, that it has also been scientifically demonstrated to be effective against the Leptospirosis spirochete, due to a chemical in Mangosteen known as xanthone..
All in all-- very little scientific research has been done on natural Antispirochaetal compounds, and almost nothing on borrelia-- its almost a national disgrace so Dr. Eva Sapi is our hero.
Good Luck--- !!
Posts: 696 | From New York | Registered: Aug 2006
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Again, I know nothing about these except houttuynia tea which I take, so caveaat emptor:
"More recently, Deng Shifa reported on efforts at prevention and treatment of leptospirosis (6, 7). He administered a decoction prepared from fresh, rather than dried, herbs, using ching-hao, houttuynia, eclipta, imperata, mentha, lonicera stem, humulus (lucao), and rhubarb. This formula only includes one herb, ching-hao, from the list of individual herbs above. The drink was consumed 4-6 times per day (that is, at intervals of 2-4 hours), and it was reported that recovery from symptoms occurred, on average, in about 11 days.
The results obtained with the Chinese herbs were similar to those obtained with penicillin, based on cure rate, which was 97%. The same herb formula, with rhubarb deleted, was said to help prevent leptospirosis."
Posts: 696 | From New York | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Thanks for your input! I will keep you all posted as I move through this next phase of treatment.
I plan on doing consults with 3 different practitioners, 2 TCM and one who does Vibrational Formulas. I want to make the best educated decision possible and will definitely ask about each herb that is being used, it's strength and possible side effects. I realize it could be a bumpy ride.
Nothing will happen until after the holidays, if I can hold to my current state of wellness.
Stay tuned! Hoping to get abx in my rear view mirror!
-------------------- "Yeah, I miss me too." Posts: 234 | From NY originally registered in 2008 | Registered: Nov 2012
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