I found this article interesting considering this is what im dealing with. Before I found out I had late stage Lyme I always
had terrible low back pain and found out through mri that I had lumbar stenosis and 2 herniated discs. Then all my Lyme sumptoms came and finally got diagnosed with Lyme plus bartonella and mycoplasma like a week ago. But ALSO just
recently my nuerologist ordered another MRI of my spine again and saw that I have severe arthritis and 2 herniated Disc impingements on my cervical spine and my lumbar stenosis
(low back) is much more severe then my first MRI. I am just starting treatment now for Lyme and about to do physical therapy but I am scared to death that the Lyme will completely
ruin my spine and I may end up in a wheelchair. Has anyone else had this problem?? If I treat the Lyme should my spine heal as well or am I just going in a downard spiral from here on
out. My spine has gotten so much worse over such a short period of time. Can anyone relate ? And does anyone know if I start getting good Lyme treatment that my spine can heal too?
Posts: 123 | From New jersey | Registered: Oct 2015
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Semia, so are you saying that your lyme doctor diagnosed you with lyme, bart, and myco? I don't think you posted about that. That was a big concern of yours.
Have you started any treatment?
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Yeah -- she did diagnose me with that. I am taking supplements and a couple herbs for a month because she said my body wouldnt handle antibiotocs right now.
But I'm worried about my spine. It has gotten so much worse in a short period of time. So now that I know I have Lyme and saw how spine issues go hand and hand with Lyme im
wondering like will my spine continue to get worse to the point Of needing surgery or if healing the Lyme can heal my spine too? My spine is already in really bad shape so it's scary
Posts: 123 | From New jersey | Registered: Oct 2015
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posted
She's not treating aggressively at all. Currently searching for a new LLMD. I dont see myself getting better under Her care .
Posts: 123 | From New jersey | Registered: Oct 2015
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Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Lyme loves the spine. Herbs don't really hit the spine on me, but abx do. You might want to try abx.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
I agree with Catgirl. If you have lyme arthritis, it can attack any joint, including spine.
The worst is usually at the pelvic base, many people end up in surgery for problems there, while in fact, they are suffering from lyme.
In my view, Borrelia likes cartilage (they eat it up, literally), you need to re-build it and kill Borrelia simultaneously to protect your joints (see Buhner for suggestions how to re-build joints).
In my case, I think Borrelia concentrated there because it was where I had a lot of heavy metals (mercury, mainly). Mercury goes there, and does not chelate easily out.
Mercury does not chelate out of any joint easily, in my experience.
The most efficient way to get mercury out for me was the Violet Ray, I think.
Lyme was dormant for 6 years when I started the Violet Ray (high frequency).
I had incredible reactions on my spine and most joints, a lot of pain, and I needed so many binders after the pain, in order to feel normal (or my liver and gut get in trouble).
I hope you find out a solution!
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Thank you so much bRussells and catgirl. I will bring this to the attention of a new LLMD I am seeing in January. I start antibiotics in a week so at least I am getting started with more treatment besides herbs and supplements.
Brussels, how do I start doing violent Ray ? Should I bring up violent Ray to my LLMD ? I don't know much about that.
Also, I am starting physical therapy next week. Do you think that will help any as far as strengthening ?
Posts: 123 | From New jersey | Registered: Oct 2015
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posted
Has anyone here been able to get unstable joints stronger? I am a constant chiropractic patient!
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Has anyone here been able to get unstable joints stronger? I am a constant chiropractic patient! [/QB]
- Yoga or something similar? Something to strengthen the muscles holding your spine up.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Robin, I also had weak joints... Active infection does that (cracking, weakness...).
I know waters rich in limestone are bad for bones and joints... I avoid it now.
I would try to detox joints, with any tools you find...
I do think there is a direct relation between toxin load in the joints and constant joint infections or diseases (arthritis, arthrosis).
The more you take chelators and see what it does to your joints, you realize how much junk a joint can have! It feels like never-ending!
When lyme was gone, I still developed some arthritis on and off, which reacted to killers. It was never as bad as lyme arthritis, but still bothersome...
Now I think I have zero arthritis.
Every time I take a new chelator, one of the first places that scream of pain are my joints.
It's almost sure for me:
1) I take a good chelator (new one, that I never took before),
2)I WILL have some joint pain here and there (sometimes pretty acute),
3) I will feel very toxic and that will be relieved with binders
4)I will have weak joints where the pain was (for a couple of hours or days),
5) My joints feel stronger after all that is gone (in a matter of days after I start a new chelator).
6) the chelator doesn't work anymore to clean that joint after a few days or weeks. I need to look for something else if I want to clean my joint further.
Each chelator will act in different joints, not all of them.
Besides known chelators (MSM too...), you can try infrared, with Nogier pulsing. I like my PE1 for that. Or infrared sauna.
I think the violet ray helps a lot too. Or anything on that sense (PEMF devices).
And another newer device I tried that profoundly affected some joints that never reacted to any other treatment: the Neurophone!
I stopped using it for about 2 weeks, and I'm still detoxing from it (my arm joints are still painful).
Chiropratic adjustment is also another good thing, but it is just good at one level (like chelators, each will help a bit, but you need a combination of treatments to have better results).
Yoga strengthen in many ways, not only joints, tendons, but makes inner energy flow too. Some people even herx with yoga!!
We are bombarded with toxins from all over, drink bad water, now we're getting germs from geoengineering experiments...
These things deposit somewhere in our bodies, mess with our immune systems and detox pathways. No wonder some part of our bodies suffer. It is easier to clean organs like liver, gut, but when it comes to joints AND nerves, they do need help.
If you know your joints are infection-free, you already tried most chelators, and do regular infrared, and still have joint problems, I would go Violet Ray and Neurophone!
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Semia, I am running a big thread on the Violet Ray. You can take a look at it.
No need to ask lyme doc: he'll probably know nothing about that...
It costs about 30 dollars, and I swear, if I knew about it when my lyme was active, I would have tried it then.
It is a tool that uses high frequencies, through 2 Tesla coils. Nothing else cleaned my spine nerves like the Violet Ray did. No chelator did that before, the way the violet Ray did.
I think that, by giving our body electrons, it will displace toxins, SPECIALLY from nerves, but also joints and skin.
I do think it has some killing properties too (it won't kill everything though), as it strengthened my teeth in an amazing way.
Recently, someone wrote that the Violet Ray helped his health even more than Rife!! ----------
Did you also try chiropractic AND acupuncture for the spine?
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Do you have popping in your unstable joints? Did they get better with antibiotics?
Posts: 79 | From Austin | Registered: Jun 2015
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Yep, while lyme was active, my joints (spine including) often popped.
Everything was related: sometimes it was only joint pain, others was popping, or weaker joints...
Note that absence of symptoms does not mean the joint is clear. The proof is that, when you take stronger killers, you will feel pain in joints you didn't even know were infected!
They call that herxheimer: worsening of symptoms. The point is that you herx in joints that had no previous problems! So you thought.... Until you take the right killers!
Same goes for chelators and cleaning treatments: you will feel pain or reaction in joints you never thought were ill. That is good, because it means, you are cleaning these joints BEFORE they got infections or trouble.
Definitively, after lyme, my joints rarely pop, if ever.
And I didn't get unstable joints anymore, except when I started feeling some arthritis (light). My arthritis is gone, I think.... It's been years my joints do not pop.
I know some people with arthrosis, and that causes unstable joints.
According to my lyme doctor, arthrosis (the joint gets bony, deformed, stiffened) comes after infection in the joint (arthritis): these are cousin diseases, similar causes.
With heavy metal chelation or the Violet ray, I got weaker joints for a limited period of time. Not all joints, only the ones that are successfully cleaned.
The joints get stronger fast after chelators (at least, for me). Sometimes, for good. Pain after chelators can be even stronger than during herxes. Not always, but I do remember screaming of pain after Phospholipids and being unable to walk for a few hours (weaker joints).
Next day, my joints were stronger than before, which is for me a sign that they indeed needed chelating...
It's a bit of a puzzle... But I see men and women all around me, there are so many suffering from joint problems, even WITHOUT lyme. They never had lyme, some are very young strong men. It's not anymore a disease of old women, like in the past.
And it is not only lyme. So cleaning joints, spine, is a must to be able to live pain free.
The older you get, the more junk you accumulate in the joints.
And you can write down: candida can give you joint pain too. Not as strong as Borrelia, but still painful.
So the aim, long term, has to be joint cleaning. Or you just have to keep treating your joints forever. At least, that is what I concluded so far...
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Thanks Brussels. I have popping in all my joints. My shoulders, wrists, hips, back, ankles, neck, jaw, and even elbows have popped at one time or another.
My hips now have tears in the labrums. I'm concerned that I'll need surgery in the near future.
You said after Lyme. Do you believe you are cured of Lyme? I'm not even 100 percent sure I have Lyme. My doctor has said as much. He believes I have Lyme, but he leaves room for doubt. I'm on (roughly) my fifth month of antibiotics.
I'm concerned that I'm going to wreck my gut like I read about so many others have done with years of antibiotics. I take probiotics daily but still think I have thrush. The taste of the Tindazole really never goes away.
I'm hoping the joints begin to get better. I don't have the pain in my neck and back that I had a few months ago, but I have it in my hips still. My shoulders and wrists still pop all the time.
Perhaps the antibiotics have helped with my neck and back. I'm not sure though. The popping migrates. I will be miserable in one part of my body for several weeks, then it will go away and be in another part of the body.
They just recently did another western blot on me. I believe band 34 or 35 came up this time but no others. Just wish this was more certainty around diagnosing.
Posts: 79 | From Austin | Registered: Jun 2015
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posted
Brussels .. Can you tell me where you purchased your violet Ray ? That's a very cheap price and sounds like it's worth a lot! I really want to get one so please let me know the best place to purchase one. Thanks
Posts: 123 | From New jersey | Registered: Oct 2015
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
According to Brussels March 4 post, this is the Violet Ray she purchased:
Read the warnings Brussels gives at the beginning of the thread regarding use of Violet Ray.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Thank you TF. It's the model I bought, but a friend of mine bought 2 with defect (after I bought 3 without defect!).
You know, China quality, it varies.
-------------------------------- I don't know...
For me popping joints = active infection.
In my case, it was lyme, but I reacted well to lyme killers like cats claw, for example.
In my view, if you have active Borrelia, most people react in a way or another with full herb cats claw (NOT the Samento version).
Cats claw has good press (digestible, it goes really deep inside joints...), it's inexpensive, it doesn't destroy your gut...
So that is where I would start, in case you have doubt.
So many people took cats claw during years and while it does not cure lyme on its own (you need combinations), if you react with it (herxes, more pain than before intake), I would suppose you still have lyme.
But joints can have so many other pathogens, so who knows? They can also harbor multiple infections.
The only thing certain (in my opinion) is that chronic infections go there, because joints are toxic. So certainly, I would look into a parallel treatment to try to clean joints, even if you have no Borrelia there.
That is what I would do...
One of the last things I did that detoxed many joints was the Neurophone. I am sure I can still use it for months or years, and still obtain some health benefits (not only in my joints).
Without doubt, in my case and my daughter's, after a few days on the Neurophone, our joints were detoxing badly, exactly like when we did chelation.
And someone I know, who follows everything Flanagan does for years, said that Flanagan used his own Neurophone for detoxing mercury. He had been severely poisoned as a toddler, became autistic, and used MSM in great amounts, the Neurophone after he invented it by the age of 14.
But Flanagan can't say that explicitly (or the device is confiscated, as it is marketed as a brain device, not a health device).
it's not that expensive either, for what it does (about 400 dollars).
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Yes, a lot of spine issues. I actually got a call from an orthopedic surgeon asking if I had a past accident. He said my spine is what he sees in elderly ex-football players.
I have gotten a lot of spine relief with lyme treatment. Interestingly, when I would go on the Flagyl rotation the next day when I would get out of bed I would have severe lumbar pain.
While my spine is certainly not back to normal, I do a lot of yoga and Pilates to strengthen the surrounding muscles.
By the say, how old are you? I was late forties when I had spinal MRI and since I was a distance runner for many years, that could also have been a contributing factor.
Posts: 478 | From Third Coast | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
Thank you koo for your response. I am only 26 and have played volleyball in high school and college but nothing serious.
So even though your spine isn't back to normal, it has improved and are you back to normal functioning?
Posts: 123 | From New jersey | Registered: Oct 2015
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posted
Good discussion. For me, I think it's two things - muscles still too tight, and tissues too weak. Probably means more mg needed, as well as tissue supplementation. I have Biosil in my drawer, haven't started it yet.
I also remember when I did the original Ultra Body Toddy product with 72 minerals in it from the Utah seabed area, my nails went hard - they're soft now. So I would like to relocate a product like that one. Not sure it's the same anymore.
I do modified yoga stretching prior to chiropractic visits. I stretch in the pool. I've been shown general PT stabilization exercises - good for strengthening, but not addressing the instability of the joints, which I think is tissue-related, ie Lyme-related.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Semia, my spine is greatly improved...and I'm over 50! I was on my feet Thanksgiving day for at least 10 hours straight (minus time we actually sat down to eat) and my back hurt something awful that night and next morning.
I went to yoga Friday (actually did a barre class first) and that was the end of the pain.
One thing I want to add about popping joints. I don't think popping joints necessarily means active infection. When we have lyme our cortisol goes all over the place until the function becomes very low.
With low cortisol comes loose joints, and I honestly think loose muscles and everything else. Think of a bulked up athlete on steroids. They tend to pull muscles easily.
Now think the opposite , when cortisol is low. It causes our joints to loosen up. Heck, I'm definitely one of the older ones in yoga but I am one of the most flexible. I think my period of low cortisol and adrenal function played a role in this.
I think your spine will improve with time. I also do a lot of Pilates which has strengthened my core which in turn seems to have helped my spine.
Posts: 478 | From Third Coast | Registered: Feb 2011
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