posted
Would love comments and input on my proposed treatment from LLMD for Lyme... Anything missing or not good?
Bicillin shots Zithromax
Cats claw Banderol Berbirine Allimax
VSL #3
Posts: 85 | From United States | Registered: Jun 2015
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ukcarry
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posted
I like your herbals and that you are using a good probiotic. Several of your herbs may help to counter biofilm, as well as havng immne-modulating and antimicrobial properties. Japanese knotweed is also a good choice, should you wish to rotate herbs a bit. I wouldn't start all the herbs together though. Add one at a time at a low dose and build up before adding the next.
I will leave the comments on the antibiotics to others who are more up-to-date with abx protocols.
I notice that you don't have a 'binder' on hand to help escort neurotoxins or metals etc out of the body. There are a lot to choose from (clay, chlorella, pectin, zeolite, charcoal etc).
Are you working with an LLMD?
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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Jordana
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posted
I would add an excellent multiple vitamin and liposomal vitamin c for immune support.
People complain a lot about killing the micro biome with antibiotics but that is not really the problem. The problem is that the missing bacteria manufacture vitamins and co-enymes and without them the body is missing some nutritional workhorses.
Also antibiotics tend to eat up nutritional stores.
Vitamin C is a universal antioxidant and gram for gram better than glutathione, also cheap and also necessary for good cooperation between your treatment and your immune system.
Posts: 2057 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2015
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posted
Thanks guys. Yes, working with an LLMD. Is there a particular binder in general you recommend is best to start with? I do sauna as well to help detox.
RE: Other supplements - What multi do you recommend?
I already take a ton of other stuff for support (mito-q, mag malate, vit d, vit k, ALCAR, etc.. and just switched over to liposomal vitamin C, although I hate drinking it vs just taking a pill! I don't currently take a multi because I've been taking everything individually as of late.
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ukcarry
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Great to do sauna, if you tolerate it. I would ask your LLMD about binders , as the choice partly depends on whether you have a big problem with metals. You could use clay in the meantime, especially in tandem with the saunas. Lymetoo recommended Living Clay, for example.
Mito-q, magnesium, d3, k2 are all good choices and you need a good B complex, if you are not taking one already. Thorne do a good selection with the active coenzyme forms, as does Drs Best.
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
So I was taking seeking health b-minus (b complex in forms I can take as per my genetics, but when my primary tested my b vits they were all like crazy high! I can't remember if I took the supplement that morning but regardless they were super high haha So I backed off after that. Lymetoo kinda freaked me out with having B6 too high...
Posts: 85 | From United States | Registered: Jun 2015
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ukcarry
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B6 can cause toxicity for some people, but others have functional deficiency of some B vitamins despite high levels in serum. My B12 is above the limits, yet I am deficient because I am not absorbing it and that is, at least partly, related to the genetic mutations. The FUT2 mutations, for example, are associated with poorer absorption of B12. This is quite common, apparently in those with CFS and Lyme.
Unfortunately, B6 deficiency symptoms rather resemble toxicity symptoms, but a lot of people with Lyme seem to have a functional B6 deficiency. You could read Dr K on KPU/HPU and pyroluria and will find threads here on this if you search.
If you are consulting with someone over your genetic profile, you should ask for advice on the B vitamins. One good way to tell if your hgh serum levels in B vits gives an accurate picture is to do a test like Genova Diagnostics' ONE test, which is a urine test that analyses your nutritional status based on what you have metabolised, your urinary organic acids. This test helps to show which of your genetic polymorphisms/mutations are actually being expressed.
I wouldn't just stop taking the B vitamins without checking this out.
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
How do you know you are deficient in B12 despite high serum levels? Is that from that Genova ONE test? I can certainly look into that. Is there one I can order without a doctor?
Posts: 85 | From United States | Registered: Jun 2015
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posted
yeah i have a comment --- you're treatment plan is really bad you should start getting in for your shots -- haven't you missed a few?? lol
Posts: 123 | From New jersey | Registered: Oct 2015
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posted
Stay on top of your detox with the bicillin, especially if you haven't had prior tx. Because it's a long acting depot injection you can't back off of it very well if the herxing gets to be too much.
Do any of the herbs treat cysts? If not a "cystbuster" will probably be added to your regimen at some point.
I think binders can be very important to preventing toxins from being recirculated. If you consider taking chlorella be sure to take it away from C, I think 3-4 hours on both sides is what is recommended. Vitamin C will break the bonds between chlorella and metals, allowing the metals to be recirculated.
Posts: 474 | From US | Registered: May 2014
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Keebler
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Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS
And how to help protect ears while taking abx -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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ukcarry
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posted
The most reliable assessment of B12 levels is supposed to be by measuring methylmalonic acid, by blood or urine, as B12 deficiency is the main cause of high MMA levels. Yes, the Genova ONE test does measure MMA, amongst other urinary acids. I think you can order it without a doctor, but you would have to check that. You could also order via a functional medicine practitioner.
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Bumping this up. Can anyone comment on the Bicillin LA and Zithromax combo? I'm confident in it but I ran it across the drug interactions website and I got this which makes me a bit curious. Would love some insight....
Interactions between your selected drugs
Minor azithromycin penicillin g benzathine Applies to: Zithromax (azithromycin), Bicillin L-A (penicillin g benzathine)
Although some in vitro data indicate synergism between macrolide antibiotics and penicillins, other in vitro data indicate antagonism. When these drugs are given together, neither has predictable therapeutic efficacy. Data are available for erythromycin, although theoretically this interaction could occur with any macrolide. Except for monitoring of the effectiveness of antibiotic therapy, no special precautions appear to be necessary.
References Strom J "Penicillin and erythromycin singly and in combination in scarlatina therapy and the interference between them." Antibiot Chemother 11 (1961): 694-7 Cohn JR, Jungkind DL, Baker JS "In vitro antagonism by erythromycin of the bactericidal action of antimicrobial agents against common respiratory pathogens." Antimicrob Agents Chemother 18 (1980): 872-6 Penn RL, Ward TT, Steigbigel RT "Effects of erythromycin in combination with penicillin, ampicillin, or gentamicin on the growth of listeria monocytogenes." Antimicrob Agents Chemother 22 (1982): 289-94
Also ask your practitioner about additional cyst busters and biofilm degraders, plus mineral supplementation in tandem with heavy metal chelation/detoxification..
The Drs. Brorsons have proven that Lyme cysts (round bodies that are dormant, hence do not absorb standard antibiotics) are viable for up to 18 months-- so cyst busters pulsed across an 18 month period are probably in order.
Cysts are a main reservoir of chronic infection. Flagyl is the best prescription cyst buster and it penetrates the blood brain barrier and you could do this maybe twice during an 18 month period to clear out cysts.
The zithromax with kill live spirochetes, but may lose effectiveness after a short while because Lyme adapts very quickly, in addition to practicing antigenic variation to confuse the immune system. Green tea extract will boost Amoxicillin's effectiveness, so that could be rotated in after zithro. Check the recent Johns Hopkins study for the most recent effective antibiotics against Lyme, plus a recent study on the effectiveness of pulsing antibiotics.
Presumably cysts INSIDE protective biofilm will not be viable after 18 months. So the key is to OUTLAST these cysts while the antibiotics are killing the live spirochetes--- if we cannot adequately break up and kill the biofilm which harbors them..
A second main reservoir of chronic infection is biofilm. Lots of natural substances address biofilm formation (quorum sensing), biofilm build-up and or biofilm hardening. Manuka honey, mango, curcumin, pomegranate, bromelain, boluoke, fenugreek, rosemary, cloves, xylitol, lactoferrin, N-ACETYLCYSTEINE , Fulvic acid, barberry, stevia, cinnamon, grapefruit seed extract, quercetin, ginger, curry, guava, burdock root, elecampagne, boswellia(Frankincense) Terminalia chebula,,skullcap, neem, mangosteen, alfalfa,serapeptase, nattokinase etc.,etc... all these may address different aspects of biofilm construction, buildup and maintenance.
The Samento/banderol combo works very well in-vitro to almost eliminate Lyme biofilm, live spirochetes and cysts-- you can rotate this with Houttuynia/Enula for at least 18 months or until symptoms have been gone for 3 months. Check the Cowden protocol with your practitioner. Check the amazing pictures here of the Samento/Banderol combination. http://www.townsendletter.com/July2010/sapi0710.html
Larger parasites may also be hosts to spirochetes-- so they also should be eliminated first, if possible.
Posts: 696 | From New York | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I don't take zith but another macroglide along with bicillin injections. For me the bicillin is still very effective. I haven't taken any breaks with the macroglide, but in a combo surely it still lends synergy if not outright being effective on cell wall deficient forms.
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