Topic: Why are some Lyme patients against Energy / Muscle Testing, Applied Kinesiology, ART?
bcb1200
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25745
posted
Hi folks:
I'm starting down the road of energy / muscle testing as a way to achieve complete recovery.
I first saw a woman in RI who is a certified ART practitioner from Dr. K and am now changing to an Applied Kinesiologist in NYC who helped a close friend of mine (and many many others.)
I've been doing a lot of thinking, long and hard, about whether I should move away from the "conventional" LLMD / ILADS approach of antibiotics, pharmaceuticals, and herbs and going the alternative, energy testing/homeopathy route over the past few weeks.
And in doing so, I've done a lot of reading on this website from members who have shared their thoughts an opinions about energy testing / AK / ART.
To summarize, I'm surprised SO MANY chronic lyme patients on this board are against ART / AK / energy testing. Some of the direct quotes that I've read is there is "no proof" it works, that it is a "Scam" and the practitioner is "just guessing", etc, etc, etc.
I'm so surprised to hear this coming from Lyme patients given that the mainstream medical establishment believes Chronic Lyme "Does not exist" and is "easy to cure" and that we all "are not sick"
and that the ILADS trained LLMD's we all hold so dear are all "quacks" who just "steal our money."
How can chronic lyme patients be so open to ILADS LLMD's, yet so closed minded to ART / AK / Energy testing?
For me, I think I've reached the point where pharmaceuticals are no longer working as they once did. They have lost their effectiveness, either that or they are getting my body more toxic.
And my LLMD, who I hold in the highest regard, is not able to see some of the things that are holding me back, be it structural, food sensitivities, etc, etc.
I do think energy testing does vary depending on the skill of the practitioner and that not all practitioners are created equal. But the same can be said for any LLMD. Not all LLMD's are created equal.
I do admit the whole idea behind energy testing is hard to wrap your mind around. But I've personally met so many people who are now WELL (complete recovery) after taking this approach.
I'm willing to give it a shot.
The most recent example I have is a friend of mine who was sick with Lyme and co for 5 years. He was bedbound/disabled with severe physical and neuro symptoms (brain fog, lyme stutter, etc.)
NOTHING worked for him in 5 years and he went to some well known LLMD's and did all the usual protocols from Dr. B, Dr. H, etc.
But then he tried this Applied Kinesiologist in NYC and she has gotten him 90% recovered in 8 months. He is expected to make a 100% recovery!! He feels GREAT and I am JEALOUS!!
The AK practitioner found all of his issues, including candida, mold, heavy metal toxicity, and (most importantly) food sensitivities. He spent the first 4 months detoxing his body and getting him well enough to fight lyme and co.
Then they moved on to Lyme and coinfections. They are all gone now and he is just cleaning up.
I see this doc later this week and am EXCITED!!!
Anyway...I wish folks were open to these approaches as I know they have helped many many people.
Will keep you posted on my progress.
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posted
Hi, Last week I went to see the same RI certified ART practitioner from Dr. K and she was able to find many outstanding problems in me. She also saw Bartonella in my daughter’s intestine.
That was the main reason of my visit - to find out about my daughter, since me as a mother I’m biased in my testing of her. I do energy testing on myself though.
I think that is great that you have decided to go the alternative way! I’m sure that it will bring you much further in your recovery that anything else.
Beating up Lyme takes thinking out of the box. It takes though an open mind to do that. I guess it is hard for most of the Lymies. It is hard to trust something new, especially when it looks almost as a witchcraft.
I’m a pharmacist – a science based person, but 3 years of abx brought me nowhere, therefore I went to Germany and started to treat with photons. Many doctors in Germany use ART or other different energy testing to guide themselves for the treatment.
Here in North America, big pharmas rule the medical word. They want us to believe that there is a magic pill for everything, but in reality all treatments that are provided in the majority of diseases are symptomatic treatments.
It doesn’t heal us , but masks the symptoms. So that we continue to take the pill and to pay for it. I know this process from inside out more than anyone else.
May I ask you why you decided to go see the practitioner in NY and didn’t go back to RI one? You ca PM me if you don’t want to share here.
I wish you the fastest recovery with this new practitioner. He sounds to be the good one, if he was able to put into recovery very ill patient in only 8 months. I might PM you for the contact info.
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posted
I don't have an opinion for or against muscle testing but I do think after a point it becomes more about treating the terrain and underlying issues than hitting pathogens.
If you are taking antibiotics and having distinct herxheimer reactions, even if its a long one, followed by improvement, than you are on the right track.
If this is not happening than it might be more underlying issues.
For me, treating my adrenals in a deeper manner than was happening with my llmd made a big difference along with heavily increasing immune support.
I also think after a long period of treating, following your gut is the way to go. If you are looking at your supplements and not feeling any of them, skip them here and there. Try colloidal silver, essential oils, different supplements etc…
I saw in a prior post you mentioned head stuff such as sinus pain etc… Maybe try colloidal silver nasal spray or xylitol nasal spray.
Maybe take a few months away from your llmd and try what feels right to you. If its this person in NYC than go for it.
If you felt like you were on the right path with your llmd right now you wouldn't be considering this treatment. You can always go back down the road.
-------------------- unsure445 Posts: 824 | From northeast | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
I think it's decades of the people in our society with money pushing the pharmaceutical healthcare model and talking trash about "alternative" healthcare. Originally, alternative care was just plain healthcare.
Then when you add the energy component, based on an even older healthcare model, like the energy of acupuncture, those same people really go crazy because they want to push the expensive doctors, drugs, and surgery on us.
And since the herbs, needles, and lights aren't all tested in double blind studies like what is required for a drug to come to market, they criticize the natural stuff as not having had the studies rather than going on its track record. It's all they have against it.
It's all been pushed on us for so long, people think anyone who goes against that is crazy. One hundred years from now, I wonder which model will look crazy.
Then people buy into it and base their own healthcare on it without even getting a fair presentation of the real treatment alternatives. They think there is only one way.
Why they go so far as to attack people on a message board, I do not know. I got lambasted when I returned from Germany and had such a great improvement in health. People for the most part did not say, "Wow, I'm so happy for you, what did you do to get healthy?"
Mostly I got people telling me I had never really been sick, that I got better from the two years of antibiotics before I went (I was very, very sick when I left, didn't even know if I could make the trip), and just got plain nasty.
I also got accused of making money off talking about my treatment. I assure you, I paid for my treatment and never got a referral fee and no one has offered me anything except for one person who gave me a scarf after I let her use my Bionic for a month (at my house).
She is a friend, so the scarf wasn't intended as payment, just to be clear. And I gave her no medical advice, she was waiting for her PE1 to arrive.
I do think some are trolls from big Pharma and the NIH. But we also get members arguing amongst each other, even when none of us are pushing what we are doing, we're just sharing.
I wish you the best of luck.
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-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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bcb1200
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25745
posted
Thanks Six...you've always been there for me since the beginning of this and I've always looked at your story as one of inspiration.
You were sick for so long, and disabled for so many years, and have made a complete recovery.
I wasn't nearly as bad, for as long. And if you can recover...SO CAN I!!!!
I'm sorry to hear people were not supportive of the Photon therapy that got you well. I would think that people would be lining up to try it given your success.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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posted
Very cool, I'm excited for you and happy to hear about yet more approaches one can choose to get better.
I think it just makes sense that different approaches will work better for some than others.
I believe one of the major fallacies of allopathic medicine is looking at all of us as though we're the same and should respond the same to meds and things. There is so much more information and possibility available when you get into subtler realms I feel.
I know the "cold hard facts" folks are doing their best to keep folks safe and everything but the more I hear about the successes people are having in thinking out of the box and applying other technologies, the better I feel about this whole thing.
My other concern about allopathic approach is that I feel so much is missed in terms of the unintended side effects of treatment, such as obliterating one's micro biome and therefore capacity to manage other harmful situations like candid overgrowth etc....
When all one has is a sledgehammer, everything likely looks like a ..whatever requires a sledgehammer.
I think all the reports of poorer health post abx is telling us it's no magic bullet for a lot of folks at least, and there is much more to the picture.
Good luck with it and let us know how it goes!
Gabe
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posted
Please, everyone, break your posting up into a couple lines at a time. There are people reading here who cannot handle large blocks of text.
My comment about the topic - it's good to evaluate the pros and cons of every treatment approach so we make an informed decision.
In my experience, whenever someone did muscle testing with me, I could feel them pushing my arm down too hard for me to resist, and then they'd reach for a product to sell me for that issue. I experienced it as manipulative in order to sell me something. Just my experience.
I would rather get a measurable test (blood, hair, urine, etc) if it can show that I have enough of something or am deficient.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Yeah, bcb, you would think! And yes, if I can do it, you can, too!! I look forward to hearing your progress.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Judie
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Member # 38323
posted
Muscle testing, applied kinesiology and energy testing misdiagnosed me for 2 years.
I was put on ineffective supplements, spent tons of money, was sicker in the long run.
One practitioner was convinced it was a mental because their methods weren't working.
So I was shamed and blamed for not getting well by these methods.
It wasted 2 years of my life and I wound up bed-ridden and in the hospital.
I have good reason to not to do it anymore.
I found a fantastic eventually doctor who started to turn my health around in 2 weeks after wasting my life for 2 years doing energy and muscle testing.
The doctor who eventually helped me had interned in an office that did muscle testing and saw a lot of patients scammed.
That's why I don't do it anymore.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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Catgirl
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posted
Good for you Bcb! :)
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
The doctors I've seen that do energy testing have also seemed to want to sell supplements and other stuff. Also a famous one that I saw it didn't seem to add up.
In St Louis he said I need to get teeth from my wisdom area rmoved, and I haven't seen any proof that this is the case nor have I had any tooth or face pain like that- besides stuff in my neck- which I think is parasite related.
A doctor I used to see in NJ for lyme also seemed to act weird when she would do muscle testing on me.
I recently I got a lyme test and stool test with diagnostech that showed tapeworm and positive for lyme. I'm waiting till after I get a colonoscopy to start treating. Simply put I prefer a more scientific method than muscle testing though.
Posts: 135 | From USA | Registered: Jun 2014
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Jordana
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I just read in Buhner's book that he doesn't trust muscle testing because he doesn't trust the Borrelia that are running our nervous systems . Why would they say they wanted something that was bad for them?
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Interesting point, bcb.
My question was exactly the opposite, though.
Since I started getting better with ART (dr. K's kinesiology), coming back again from the almost-dead, doing dozens of simultaneous things that were all energetically tested good for me, I started wondering:
How can someone get out of so bad chronic lyme WITHOUT energy tests?
The practitioners tuned for me:
- all foods I could ingest that wouldn't cause me intolerance or allergies
- all tick born pathogens and all medicines for each of the pathogens, including the exact amount of substances, in the right combination.
- all heavy metal mobilizing and binding things that I could take
- all other binders for neurotoxins
- stuff that corrects the Krebs cycle (in homeopathy) or problems of energy building (so that I never needed to take CoQ10 supplements again!)
- all good probiotics that would test to my gut at that moment (and that kept changing with the time)
- stuff that corrects my emotions (that are affected due to profound illness). Things like homeopathics and Bach flowers
- all the probable teeth (dead teeth, root canals) that are blocking my healing, that need to go out.
- exact combination of Rife frequencies that would help my body (micro current)
- they also tuned to me orthomolecular things (minerals, omega 3, vitamins, etc)
- and told me all Chinese meridians that were affected and which points I should massage to get them working
- they could test me if electrosmog was an issue or not, influencing my health
I mean, I didn't believe them, of course. How could I???
I just had NO CHOICE than do what they suggested me, branch to the devices, do the strict diet, keep tapping the acupuncture points, taking DOZENS of substances, etc
No one else was willing to treat me, so I followed what the suggested me. Even the bad teeth went out. Surprisingly, I got better. It took time, but I did.
So now my question, since then, how could I have GUESSED all that on my own? Or how could any normal practitioner could have guessed that all and take me back from the world of the dead to be lyme free for now 7 years?!
Guys, wake up: energy testing is not 100% right.
It is totally dependable on the practitioner's skills AND knowledge (same as any LLMD, you depend on his knowledge and skills).
but without it, for very bad cases that look lost, I don't see any other way out.
I just keep wondering how most people expect to get 100% back to their previous pre-lyme state (if that even existed, because some are born with lyme) without energy testing.
If not 100% accurate, it is still much better than shooting in the dark. When you just need ONE SHOT, fine. But in serious chronic cases, we need HUNDREDS of shots, all simultaneous, to get you out.
bcb1200
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Member # 25745
posted
Well I've certainly brought out all of the opinions.
Honestly, I'm not trying to flame people as everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I do find it curious that people want a more "scientific" test when literally none of the scientific tests we have available are typically useful for chronic lyme.
And remember the mainstream, scientific community doesn't even acknowledge chronic lyme. That is the irony.
I believe there are certainly bad docs out there that either a)aren't skilled in energy testing or b) simply trying to sell you supplements. That can be said for any doctor anywhere, including ILADS LLMD's.
But I do think, with the right practitioner, that energy testing is real and useful. There are too many positive stories out there (from people I trust, mind you) of it being helpful.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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dbpei
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posted
It is a tough call when you read about the people who have wasted time and money. I think if you can find someone who has helped many others, that is the key.
It sounds like this person in NYC is the real deal. I will look forward to hearing about your experience with her. Good luck!
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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bcb1200
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posted
I agree...but I guess my point is you can also waste time and money with an LLMD.
I've seen some "famous" ones over the years and certainly know that to be the case.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
| IP: Logged |
dbpei
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posted
You are so right about that, bcb1200. And I know you have used the some of the best LLMD's. The doctors who have a proven track record are your best bet with either school.
To measure the success of my treatment, I either want to start feeling better or I want to be able to see some objective improvement in the results of my bloodwork, MRI's or tests. If I was going to a practitioner who only did energy testing and I wasn't yet feeling better, I would have a very hard time trusting in it.
When you are using energetic testing, you run the risk of the practitioner influencing those results. You need to have an incredible amount of trust in that practitioner. That is not to say that they cannot help you. It is just very hard to change that paradigm for me.
I know that there have been other threads here on this. One of the things I remember reading was that we could learn to do our own muscle testing. I don't know if I would trust myself for this, but I know Dr. K offers workshops in this for anybody willing to travel the distance. If I lived in the northwest, I would likely sign up for one of his workshops!
The more people I learn of, who are helped with this type of practitioner and testing, the more open I will eventually be to it. I just haven't come across many yet. So I really appreciate you sharing your experience and I certainly wish you the best!
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
Everyone is different. Sometimes a person might need an antibiotic (I have taken them for a kidney infection since I got better naturally from Lyme). Most energy testing practitioners don't consider pharmaceuticals. And most MDs don't consider energy work.
I go to a functional medicine doctor who believes in muscle testing. She even tells me to try a supplement and muscle test for when I need it. And she is open to antibiotics and will refer her patients to an MD to get them prescribed.
Everyone's path to wellness is different. Some people need both. I personally didn't find herbals to be strong enough for the Lyme I had. I could never even reduce antibiotic dosages, so that wasn't working for me either. Photons worked for me though.
Also, you know how when you've had the flu, if you were sick for two weeks, it takes another two weeks to feel back to normal? I think this is forgotten with Lyme. I was super sick for 6 years. I'll be sick years from getting rid of it this summer. I've been working on building my health this entire time. I think people not working on it anymore is why the relapse rate is so high.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
dbpei, Dr. K. offers his workshops recorded on DVDs for those who can't participate. I followed his ART 1 & 2 like that. DVDs are not cheap either, but you can learn SO MUCH from it.
World of Dr. K. is a world of wonders and Lyme sufferers can benefit from it more than anyone else.
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dbpei
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posted
Thanks Anuta. I will look into.
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
I agree that we are lacking scientific test for many of stuff relating to lyme. An obvious one that is missing is a solid parasite test. There apparently isn't even a PCR stool test to check for worms that people can take!
That doesn't encourage me to follow alternative practioners though. I'm sure it can work for some people- but I think in any cases some alternative doctors may simply be following common sense ideas- cut down on gluten, carbs and sugar, get enough sleep every night, etc...
I'm not trying to diminish serious doctors who use energy testing though, I just don't feel confident in it at all. Imagine you gave one of there practioners paper cups with meds in it they can't say I wonder how the results would show.
Also what if you muscle test poison on your body. If the person knows their teting poison they'll naturally push down not as hard and say your body is rejecting it.
I just feel like there are too many variables and I can't imagine muscle testing would work if you did randomized studies on it. Again, I respect that it seems to work for some people but I personally wouldn't trust it for serious medical decisions.
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Catgirl
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posted
I don't know how anyone with lyme can treat without muscle testing. It is such a valuable tool for me (priceless).
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
There's no one size fits all. Everything works for some and doesn't work for others. I have never had a good experience with muscle testing. But I am reading here that many have, so I respect that.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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TNT
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posted
I was reminded of this tonight, so just thought I would bring this thread back up. What are you finding out bcb1200? Does this practitioner seem like the real deal?
You picked my interest and I would like hear an update.
Thanks
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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bluelyme
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Second that ...lyme summit guy said some intersting things...its like order of operations in the myriadnof infections that is msids...i just wanna know which is causing what.... i cant trust blood tests and i cant trust ducs who guess and assume based on sx .i cant trust my body if ketes have taken over ...every one likes money so who do you trust...tnt is abx route working at all?
-------------------- Blue Posts: 1539 | From southwest | Registered: Dec 2015
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TNT
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posted
quote:Originally posted by bluelyme: ...tnt is abx route working at all?
Definitely! I feel like I've come back from the dead with them. Chemical sensitivity, walking, etc. etc. etc. is much better. But, it's been a painfully slow and uncertain process. And, it seems like I may have met my ceiling with them (that I've gotten as much help as I'm going to get from them).
Either that, or, I must need to slam myself with unreal dosages at this point. Not sure. Because (as an illustration) it seems when I go to 3 Omnicef per day I make gains, but then I eventually get to feeling and doing worse....as in, I started having numbness in my face and mouth, and trouble with speaking and articulating. Then I have to stop and things get better. So, it's a confusing journey, but the general direction has been improvement.
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bcb1200
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posted
I'm currently seeing an applied kinesiologist in NYC. It's been about 3 weeks. She is the doc who treats Debbie Gibson and also has gotten a friend of mine who was disabled, in bed for 5 years from bedbound to 90+% in 8 months. He is expected to make a full recovery.
She found during her tests that I have Lyme, Babs, Bart (big time), mycoplasma, and multiple parasites. She also found I had legionella and H. Pylori along with other issues like hietal hernia.
She also tested me for food sensitivities which are numerous. Beef, dairy, some vegetables, etc.
She treats candida first. I'm on the candida protocol and are also going after H.Pylori and Legionella. This takes about 3 weeks. Next will be heavy metals, then parasites. Once the body is strong and clean, she will go after lyme and co.
I'm about 2.5 weeks in and I feel better. Not where I want to be mind you...but I"m better than i have been in the past 60-90 days. I can sleep now (insomnia gone). My night sweats have been absent the past 2 weeks. My brain is clear, etc. I still am having sinus issues and some mild pressure on top of head along with occasional eye pressure, but they are all much improved.
So...in summary so far so good. Will keep you posted.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
| IP: Logged |
TNT
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Member # 42349
posted
Sounds good bcb1200. It looks like you are covered. I hope this works well for you. I'm glad to hear you are getting some relief, especially with the sleep, brain, and sweats issues.
Wishing you much success and complete healing.
BTW, I like SF722. Pretty powerful stuff.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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Catgirl
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posted
Great news! :)
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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Brussels
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She seems to be a good practitioner! I'm crossing my fingers for you bcb!!!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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bcb1200
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posted
Thanks all. Part of me is impatient and wants to go after lyme and co NOW. But I do think the approach of getting my body strong and well is best.
I'm encouraged I've made a bit of progress in just 2 weeks...and that I at least haven't gone backwards considering I'm off all pharmaceuticals.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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posted
You know, it's better to be patient. I have a friend who never had to address the Lyme once she addressed all the other stuff. Don't look at it as not treating Lyme.
Once my body was doing so much better, the babesia resolved itself. I simply drank tonic water when I had symptoms.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Brussels
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posted
I agree with Sixgkids. Addressing lyme is not exactly only addressing main lyme infections and coinfections.
The rest is even MORE important for keeping your health after you finish treatment. Crossing my fingers for you bcb!!!!!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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ukcarry
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posted
Just as with mainstream doctors as well as other alternative therapists, I believe that Kinesiology is as good as the practitioner .
I have had an excellent kinesiologist who helped me with candida and allergies, but I have also had two other therapists who used kinesiology who didn't help at all.
It sounds as if you have found someone good and I wish you luck with your treatment. Please let us know how you get on.
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