posted
I tested positive for Bartonella Henslae and Bartonella Quintana way back at the beginning of treatment and treated with Rifampin for about 6 months. I don't have any OBVIOUS symptoms of Bartonella really, but I have decided to go off antibiotics and go the natural route with herbs. I am currently taking Japanese Knotweed and have ramped up so far to 2,500 mg of it a day. I also ramped up on Samento and take 30 drops a day of it. I've been herxing real hard the past two months from treating with these. I know they are both very good killing agents. I've suspected I probably still have Bartonella lurking around in my body since I've read it's quite a stubborn infection, and I haven't treated it since 2011/2012
Does anyone know if Japanese Knotweed is a really good killing agent of Bartonella? It would explain the really intense herxes. Seeing as I'm killing the Lyme and Bartonella both with it.
I would like to add Andrographis into my regimen as well once I fully ramp up on the Japanese knotweed and Samento.
Thanks for any input you may have!
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Keebler
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posted
- Do you have Stephen Buhner's books on the subject? It's important to start there. -
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posted
I've actually been interested in reading Buhner's Co-infection book. I'll definitely read it.
I was wondering about people's personal experience with it for Bartonella. I am just herxing too much right now from the Japanese knotweed and Samento so I definitely can't add in any Bartonella herbs right now because I won't be able to take the added die off at the moment. So I was wondering if what I'm taking now does indeed hit the Bartonella too.
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Keebler
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- Consider the alcohol in the Samento, too. [Assume the Japanese Knotweed is capsule?]
I never herxed with it (don't really know if it's a "direct" herb or support one), though MANY others here have reported that they have had strong reactions to it - especially finding a good starting dose.
Sorry to reply "read the book" it's just that it's so complex. I can see, though, since you are now taking it and having difficulty that a quick answer would be nice.
Samento, more than any other thing, can really pack a punch. Just keep that in mind. Maybe back down on one or the other as if you are "herxing too much right now" I don't think that's a good thing.
I think one should always - always - back down from a strong herx. I think a herxheimer can be counterproductive and put too much stress on the liver / kidneys. We won't get there faster with strong herx reactions.
Sometimes a reaction might not be an actual herx, still, if it's too strong, it may indicate a protocol is not properly balanced for the individual's body at that point in time.
Also be sure your liver support is nice and steady. Hope that helps while you wait for more details from others. -
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Keebler
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- You say you want to start Andrographis. That, I know lots about and have used it over the years, sometimes as my main go-to. I have a links set if you want that.
If you start andrographis, even with one tablet (Planetary Formulas is nice) . . . expect to pee like a racehorse and be very sleep for the first week. So you might get a pill cutter and cut it in half. Herb Pharm also makes a nice tincture.
Confused here, though, as you mention two herbs that Buhner writes about and then Samento (which he suggests to avoid and use the traditional Cat's Claw instead).
If you are taking Samento (the TOA-free cat's claw) within that protocol there are other items intended to complement it - and also support a herx reaction. That protocol is all alcohol tincture, though, so I've not been drawn to it. There are those on Cowden who can offer more detail though.
In addition to protocol link, some posts include Nula's reply: " . . . Burbur is wonderful! I combine it with Pinella, and when I'm herxing or flaring . . . ."
posted
I bought the Samento this time around however I do plan on just buying regular Cats Claw once the Samento runs out, per Buhner's suggestion.
For detox and herx relief I take Chlorella. I take at least 10 grams a day of chlorella. Sometimes 14 grams a day. Chlorella seems to be my favorite for herxing.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- You might back down in the drops of Samento - and be sure you have that in at least a cup of water. That should help calm down the carnival ride to drastically cut the drops and slowly work back up.
Good to hear about Chlorella. It really loves me and I love it. One thing I really like about it is that it can be an "early" meal when I really need to eat but still have some prep to do. It's a good "first breakfast" as well. [As are a couple of Brazil nuts for the selenium.]
bluelyme mentions Houttunyia - so glad to see that. It's a wonderful herb with so many benefits. I loved that, it was wonderful for me - I used the Hepapro capsules as part of the Zhang protocol.
Some others here have said it can be strong - or smell like fish. I did not smell fish, just something very unique and it just sort of "called to me" - still if you start that, go slow until you feel it's time to move up to the next notch.
Hope you feel better soon. -
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
lymegal, I can't answer your pm (I don't know why).
but as you see, Jap knotweed did help my bart reinfection long ago.
Bart (as Babs and Borrelia) will NEVER go dormant with single herbs though. They need a multitude of herbs together, then you got to change herbs, till you catch them.
that is why I would try first with Bart nosodes (to make them weaker and wake your immune system) then, if bart is still there, you attack it with a couple of herbs. That is what I would do with such persistent infections.
I hope my PM will be fixed (I can't see the ANSWER button...).
As with RAMPING UP herbs, JUST GO SLOW. Buhner says clearly that many people improve on SMALLER dosages.
the important thing, in my opinion, is not the dosage: it's how much you improve. Pushing for strong herxes will only make you go BACKWARDS in the middle - long- term.
The mistake most inexperienced people do is to think lots of herxes are good. They aren't.
They are extremely poisonous and may make your immune system, digestive system, detoxing organs all stop working properly. For the nerves, neuro toxins feel very very bad.
It means pushing you backwards in my opinion. So go slow: think you are running a marathon, so don't spend all your energy sprinting or you may not reach the end of the race.
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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it has a lot more to say than which herbs kill Bart
as far as I understand it, there are also supporting herbs that may help you with your herxes
all of them are described at length and what they do
much better than I could repeat here
I think it may help you to see for yourself
depending on what symptoms you have with your herxes, there may be some information in the book on what can help your body with that, so you can treat more effectively and hopefully with less pain
-------------------- Persistence, persistence, persistence!!! "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence... Persistence and determination are omnipotent." attributed to Calvin Coolidge Posts: 599 | From USA | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
Brussels - I really hope your Private Messages return to normal and you can respond back to me. I really enjoy contacting you for help and advice! You have such an abundance of knowledge!
I will check out Buhner's book. Thanks everyone for all your help!
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