posted
Hi All: SO I started drinking Zevia drinks- carbonated stevia sweetened drinks - like a good cola I guess and then I use a good bit of stevia in my protein shakes and WOWSER.... I am feeling it in my knees.
Has anyone had a significant herx after using quite a bit of stevia. I am afraid this is not for the faint of heart.
Dr. H is doing research I think combined with Dapson. I'm on Zhang protocol (herbal) and mhbot and a little rife here and there.... GOODNESS... There is something to the Stevia... No doubt.
Wanted to hear if others had experienced the same.
Thanks, All!
Posts: 859 | From Southeast | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
When I drink soda, I drink Zevia. It's nice having an alternative that doesn't have sugar or artificial sweeteners. What flavor are you drinking? I notice the root beer has a lot of flavored oils added that could be having an effect, too.
The best way to see if it's the stevia is like eckoro said, eliminate the soda and see if you still get the reaction from stevia alone.
I don't entirely agree with you on gluten, eckoro, because I am non-celiac gluten intolerant and have never had candida problems. However, our gluten in the US is contaminated with glycophosphate, so that might have something to do with it. I also react to corn, though less than to wheat, and our corn has the same problem. I eat anything I want when I go to Europe and usually lose 5-10 pounds of bloat while I'm over there eating gluten and some sugar (like if I'm in Italy eating gelato).
If what eckoro said is true about stevia not being absorbed out of the intestines, that makes me wonder if you have a parasite problem. Have you treated parasites recently? I treat them yearly, even with no symptoms, because I don't want to get such a bad infestation like I did when I had Lyme.
I hope you feel better soon!
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Hi eckoro and Six! Thanks for the feedback. Believe it or not, I get the pain in my knees right after drinking my protein shake with lots of stevia in it (plain).
This is good information to have. I think I am going to limit the Zevia to one a day or less.
I always tend to flare the first week of the month anyway so this isn't too far off but the pain in my knees has been somewhat alarming. And definitely comes on right after stevia.
Thank you both again.
Posts: 859 | From Southeast | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
Thanks, Six. I am thinking I need to further limit like you. Yes, that is true about parasites.
I have a zapper and I zap almost everyday and I am scanned regularly (Zyto) so I try to stay on top of this too. Thanks for all Posts: 859 | From Southeast | Registered: Mar 2011
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willbeatthis - How do you zap parasites?? Is the zapper an expensive item? How can you tell if you have parasites?? Zyto? I've never heard of that either..you learn so much here.
Posts: 160 | From NJ | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
I have a zapper. Message me if you have more questions. They are great. I use mine daily. I think it helps with Babesia too.
Zyto- you can google it. I'm not good on explaining it. I'm pretty sure it's biofeedback. I have a practitioner and I've been super happy. Hope this helps!
Posts: 859 | From Southeast | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
I drink the Zevia cola when I need a little caffeine. I have tried consuming all types of stevia and never noticed any effect on Lyme.
Posts: 184 | From CT | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by eckoro: Far as I remember reading, Stevia is not absorbed through the intestines and it was only testing in vitro, so still some debate on its effectiveness.
How do You know ? It it NOT stevioside that is responsible for bacterial killing it clearly is stated in Eva Sapi paper on the matter
Posts: 636 | From Wroclaw, Poland | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by willbeatthis: Hi All: SO I started drinking Zevia drinks- carbonated stevia sweetened drinks - like a good cola I guess and then I use a good bit of stevia in my protein shakes and WOWSER.... I am feeling it in my knees.
Has anyone had a significant herx after using quite a bit of stevia. I am afraid this is not for the faint of heart.
Dr. H is doing research I think combined with Dapson. I'm on Zhang protocol (herbal) and mhbot and a little rife here and there.... GOODNESS... There is something to the Stevia... No doubt.
But you must use it in collaboration with antibiotics or something antibacterial, if not you'll just be feeding the bacteria...
I used it in collaboration with antibiofilm antibiotics like Tindamax and Flagyl. Stevia by itself for me makes me extremely groggy, with these antibiofilm antibiotics I get a huge jump in energy and almost feel normal.
I was on Dapsone for 4 months, 25mg with stevia, best I felt in the entire time of treatment of lyme, but dapsone is toxic, and it builds up in your body.
Eventually I had to quit it, because of the long half life. But this is the best I've felt in years!
Treatment protocol seems to work really well for me is ceftin/doxy/tindamax in collaboration with Stevia.
I also added in oregano oil after seeing the recent article on that working on biofilms, I can concur that oregano works.
I also have success with cbd oil that has cinnamon in it, along with Liverite Liver Aid, the enzymes in that supplement has show scientifically show to work against biofilms.
willbeatthis I'm at the last stages of treatment I believe, I only have fatigue left. Before I had arthritis in my fingers, inflammation in my ankles, sciatica, headaches. All that is gone.
I literally feel 100% when I'm on these biofilm busting supplements and the tindamax protocol. I get a huge jump in energy, I'm lifting weights and running for miles. But soon as I get off, I feel the fatigue coming back after 3-4 weeks.
My next step would probably try using pyrazinamide for the persister cells...
When I use these supplements and antibiotics together, I can literally feel pins in needles, a weird sensation like it's biofilm moving in and out of my joints, where the pain used to be, but I no longer have pain.
I'm guessing this is where the persister cells and biofilms still stand their ground. I'm sure that there's persister cell spirochetes still in my bones and brain to which a lot of these antibiofilms will never reach, but we have to work with what we have until the antibiofilm drugs reach the market, like Curza's cz-1-99.
quote:Originally posted by eckoro: Far as I remember reading, Stevia is not absorbed through the intestines and it was only testing in vitro, so still some debate on its effectiveness.
Ya know it amazes me the growing people on this forum and others that push the anti-stevia absorption ideology, when there's so many that still push the Buhner herbs, rife machines, collidal silver etc...
There was a doctor that was advertising on facebook saying Stevia would never work because absorption, a doctor that doesn't have a reputable background like Dr. H who actually said it works. A lot of Lyme patients started regurgitating what this (facebook advertising) doctor had said.
Finally we have proof what works and what doesn't, yet a lot of people questioning these breakthroughs. Vitro isn't the human body of course, but it still shows what may work if you want to try it.
There's a lot of patients that still don't use tindamax and fagyl because their LLMDs are uninformed, I was one of them, until I found a LLMD that would treat with them.
Until I treated with those antibiotics, I never got anywhere with abx treatment. It all makes sense now, seeing that Dr. S said tindamax and flagyl works well against biofilms.
Sure everyone is different because of coinfections. But I will say this time and time again, go with the treatment that shows promising results statistically.
Which is intravenous antibiotics because of penetration, the anti-protozoa antibiotics, and these other persister cell antibiotics Dr. H and Dr. J have stumbled across like Dapsone and Pyrazinamide.
There's a reason why scientists made these drugs for antibiotic resistant Leprosy and Tuberculosis. If you use other antibiotics they wont work on Leprosy or Tuberculosis, well I'm assuming it's the same with Lyme.
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: Stevia is something I used for years when I had Lyme. I saw no benefit from it.
Probably because you didn't pair it up with Tindamax, Flagyl or any of the antibiofilm anti-protozoa antibiotics which have shown to work against biofilms.
Also probably depends how you take it, if you slipped it under the tongue or just drank it. What brand or type did you take. Dr. S said she found that the granule form of Stevia and Xylitol worked mediocre on biofilms in vitro, while the purest liquid form like the SweetLeaf Whole Leaf Stevia Concentrate tincture worked the best.
I found through my own experience, if I didn't pair stevia up with right antibiotic, I wouldn't get much herxing...
quote:Originally posted by willbeatthis:
I always tend to flare the first week of the month anyway so this isn't too far off but the pain in my knees has been somewhat alarming. And definitely comes on right after stevia.
5-6 years ago in my beginning stages of antibiotic treatment pain and inflammation would arise in my inflammation spots after taking antibotics, so yes I think what you're feeling is the borrelia spirochetes not liking the stevia.
But I would use something antibacterial in collaboration with the stevia, I'm still skeptic about zappers and rife machines. I've tried one before, something seems to be working, but I didnt make much progress. But you could still take stevia and try the zapper right afterwards to see if you make progress.
Personally if you're not looking to take antibotics, I'd at least take stevia with some form of Buhners natural antibotic protocol at least.
Like cats claw or artmesia something, artmesia showed to kill persister cells in the recent John Hopkins study.
Personally I think no matter what, there will be no magic bullet for Lyme even if they come out antibiofilm drugs... What I mean is instantly cure you, but I think these antibiofilm drugs will definitely speed up treatment.
Spirochetes dig deep into tissue, they have so many forms like cyst forms and biofilms. I think no matter what it'll take at least a year or two for treatment of chronic lyme.
From what I remember in the Under Our Skin Documentary they said syphilis treatment can take a year or two. Just as Leprosy...
Good luck with treatment, hope you make progress...
Posts: 108 | From Germany | Registered: Jul 2017
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posted
The Dr. S trial was with liquid stevia leaf extracts - as far as I recall the powdered stuff doesn't have any effect.
I've been on the whole leaf stevia extract for a few months now - it's definitely doing something.
Started off on the SweetLeaf whole leaf stevia concentrate and was able to ramp up quickly to about 20 to 30 drops twice a day before I got a very strong herx - felt it mostly in the upper back spinal area. This stuff is a thick black liquid and does look very potent.
The I tried the KAL pure stevia extract, it's about 1/2 the price of the SweetLeaf stuff and looks mild by comparison - near colorless and less viscous. But I find it packs much more of a punch - get a strong herx with 7-8 drops twice a day. Any more than that and I won't sleep much at night - feel aches in my back and neck.
Can't seem to ramp up to a higher dosage with the stevia. Not sure if it's busting biofilms, opening up cysts, killing the so called stationary phase or persistors or something else. All I know is that I feel the effect of it big time.
Posts: 4 | From Babylon 5 | Registered: Oct 2016
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- For anyone new to lyme / TBD, Stephen H. Buhner is an exceptional lyme literate master herbalist, author of several books on the topic and well - very well - respected among LL NDs (naturopathic doctors) as well as LLMDs and many patients.
In my mind, he is a top resource and scholar. I have found his work to be absolutely excellent.
Stevia’s antibacterial actions against lyme disease / biofilm
Dear Stephen,
What are your thoughts on the New Haven Group’s study of the antibacterial actions of stevia against Borrelia bacteria?
Stephen’s response: Jun 21, 2017
. . . The study, in my opinion, is useless and misleading. . . .
. . . We have not seen ANY antimicrobial effects [of stevia] in clinical practice. NONE. . . .
. . . There is a list of perhaps 40 herbs that break up biofilms [in book] . . . .
[Full detail at the link above - and in post below. He also details the biofilm question.] -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
Stevia’s antibacterial actions against lyme disease / biofilm
Dear Stephen,
What are your thoughts on the New Haven Group’s study of the antibacterial actions of stevia against Borrelia bacteria?
Stephen’s response: Jun 21, 2017
I have a short response in the second printing (and later) of the second edition of Healing Lyme (I had to squeeze it in).
The study, in my opinion, is useless and misleading.
Here are a few of the reasons why (I have similar problems with most of the New Haven group’s studies — though this does seem to be the first one they got a journal to accept): . . . 1) The study is in vitro and hence has nothing to do with how the herb will actually work in a living body.
It is not possible to extrapolate from a single in vitro study UNLESS there is corresponding data from centuries of historical use, etc (e.g. clinical use and so on).
2) Stevia is not a very systemic herb.
To work in a live body against infection, especially with Borrelia, an herb has to be VERY systemic, that is it has to spread widely in the body, especially in hard-to-reach places. Stevia does not.
3) We have over a decade of clinical experience with stevia in the treatment of lyme disease; we suggest it as a supportive herb for a number of problems (blood glucose, etc).
We have not seen ANY antimicrobial effects in clinical practice. NONE.
However, the herb, because of effects on the GI tract, does help increase the bioavailability of herbs and pharmaceuticals (as does licorice, for example), as such it can help make antibacterials more effective.
4) The herb is also touted as helping break up biofilms.
NOTE: Most herbs contain substances that help break up biofilms; plants figured out how to do that millions of years ago.
Plants get sick, just like us, they can’t go to the doctor, they can’t call a medic, they have to treat their own diseases by figuring out what is wrong and crafting substances to deal with the infections they have.
Part of the reason they are better than drugs is that they contain multiple substances that they have created to deal with bacteria –
they had to deal with bacteria long before our species even existed, so they created antibacterials;
they had to deal with bacterial resistance long ago so they create anti-resistance chemicals;
they had to deal with biofilms so they created biofilm breaking agents, and so on.
There is a list of perhaps 40 herbs that break up biofilms in the second edition of Healing Lyme, this is by no means exhaustive. ALL plants break up biofilms to varying extents.
So, in short, this study is not groundbreaking, it is not news, it is not the antibacterial cureall for lyme disease.
Further, given the massive data on Borrelia from exhaustive research the past decades, including some of the really good work that has been done by other researchers, the study is not really all that good.
(I have read, at a conservative estimate, some 30,000 journal articles on bacteria, viruses, and herbs over the past 5 years, many of them are listed in the bibliographies in my last 5 medical herbals.
Some of the bibliographies run rather long, in Healing Lyme alone it is over 50 pages long.) -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
I just bought a new testing kit of dr. K (Germany) specific for lyme.
Quite a few products inside. Stevia WHOLE PLANT is also inside (I think it's a tincture or an extract).
So he is using that too
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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It's nice having an alternative that doesn't have sugar or artificial sweeteners. What flavor are you drinking? I notice the root beer has a lot of flavored oils added that could be having an effect, too.
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