So when I hear these occasional references to the need to cut back on sugar, I just cringe. I'm not willing to do it unless someone can give me a compelling explanation or evidence of why sugar is particularly bad for someone with Lyme. Is this a big deal simply because sugar isn't good for our health in general, or is there something specific about Lyme and sugar that I should know?

And, if sugar is so bad, can someone else suggest an alternate comfort food that will help me drown my frustrations? My psyche and my stomach seem to be closely linked!

Jeff

Some say that Lyme feeds on the sugars.
I have yet to see any proof af this.

The problem with sugars is they feed the yeast.

When on antibiotics for any length of time the friendly bacteria in your digestive system become depleted. This allows the yeast, alway around but kept in check by the good bacteria, to go crazy and have a field day.

If yeast becomes a problem its syptoms can mirror some of Lymes, so it can be hard to tell at times.

I think this can be a bigger problem for the women then the guys, but it can effect all.

To help the good bacteria we take probiotics during and after the abx. There are other things that help fight off the yeast, like garlic, olive leaf, grapefuitseed extract, etc.

Carbs turn into sugars so some try to avoid them as well.

I am able to eat some sweets, a lot af carbs and I have no problem with yeast.

Keep an eye on your tongue, if its white you have yeast.

Take Care, JOn

[This message has been edited by Jon A (edited 02 February 2003).]

Love it, love it, love it! You made my day!

I suspect someone else will come along now and rain on the parade with a counterpoint view. If so, I promise not to lash out.

At the time I found my LLMD, I was actually to the point I was choosing to not eat...because then I felt ok, symptoms would die down, go away, I could function...if I ate...I became symptomatic, disfunctional.

I had been diagnosed with a systemic yeast infection earlier, responded somewhat to Diflucan, was on it for half a year, followed a strict anticandida diet during that 6 months also....and many doctors, including LLMD said it should have resolved by now...but why did I get so symptomatic when I ate again...??

Well, then came the lyme disease diagnosis, and like StarPhoneix said, my LLMD said they aren't sure yet...but it looks like the keets feed off the same thing yeast does...sugar and carbs. Only, when yeast are starved, they die...but when keets are starved...they just go dormant till the environment is right for them again!!

It sure made sense in my case! Well, by this time I had lost too much weight to even be strong enough to tolerate treatment for lyme disease...and based on what LLMD said...I began to include carbs again in my diet(I was so miserable)...and then once my weight stabalized we hit those active keets with the abx...and treatment and recovery began.

Now on the flip side(here comes the rain on your parade???)...I have learned that One teasoon of sugar can "freeze" your immune system up to 6 hrs...and my understanding is we need our immune system in tip top condition while fighting lyme disease. (You'd be surprised how much sugar is even in our carrots and peas...and fruits...let alone all the non-nutrtional treats we include in our diets)

And since my keets are so diet sensitive...it appears my immune system is too...If I cave in and make an exception...I do it knowing (now)that I will pay later...I usually feel more symptomatic if I eat sweets(we're talking even one single cookie) or even a really high carb meal...

BUt maybe you or others aren't as diet sensitive??? Maybe a bowl of ice cream for you once in awhile is ok...(Hint: there are some "no sugar added" icecreams)...and I guess there IS calcium in icecream...so there is "some" nutritional value. (Hey, I'm trying to be on your side, here )

I also know it depends on what abx you are on...my yeast is under control with most abx (but most mine are IV too, not oral)...but when I add Flagyl in...I just can not keep the yeast under control...I can't take enough probiotics to keep up...so I know right now, sweets would probably land me in bed right now...but off Flagyl...I could make an exception here and there and just be a little more symptomaic for half a day...

Lyme disease is a long long struggle and fight to regain our health...I don't think anyone can be expected to totally be "good" (do what we know is best for our bodies) every singe day...I'm sure with moderation, breaking a rule here or there...we will still get where we want to be!!

All my best to you,

Kira

I liked this thread because I also love sweets and have no intention of giving them up! I've kind of thought that I must be "difficult" because I read about so many others giving up sweets and even most carbs. But I've been deprived of everything else in life and I'm not about to deliberately deprive myself of anything.

As to the harm or benefit of consuming these things--I've heard that Bb feeds on sugar so best not to give them what they like. The comment about letting them eat and then them being more available to kill is an interesting point because it goes to something I've read about yeast.

Yeast definitely likes sugar and other carbs and I do suffer from yeast so know all about the misery of this. Anyway while I have heard that one should go on a strict anti-yeast diet and eat practically nothing but meat and veg while dealing with a yeast problem--I have also read that when yeast don't have a readily available food source they grow "roots" (there is a word for them but I forget what it is--someone else might know.) which they embed into the intestinal (?) walls trying to get nourishment from whatever source there is (protein?). And when these roots get embedded it's even harder to cure the yeast infection.

So that is similar in a way to Bb changing to cyst form isn't it?

So my personal feeling is if you enjoy sweets then eat them! I don't mean we should all pig out on a bag of cookies every night or something but for instance I ate a PopTart the other night, I put sugar in my oatmeal, etc. I have been known to pig out of course but mostly I just eat normal amounts of such things.

Also, we need carbs for energy. I know there's the Atkins diet which has no carbs and I won't get into that except that I think it's harder to go without carbs than without fat though both are difficult. Fat is satisfying and carbs are comfort food.

The reason we like fat and carbs/sugar is an instinct from ancient times when food was scarce and these are energy sources. Those who craved and ate them were more likely to survive in times of famine. It's a built in survival thing. We haven't evolved biologically for current times when (at least in some countries and for many people) food is abundant and available. I saw a very interesting program not too long ago about various human instincts and this was one of them.

Anyway only my personal feeling but I say within reason eat what you like. This might or might not be medically correct but thought I'd share it with you other sugar lovers!

This is entirely an unscientific observation... I have not even methodically checked it on myself... but:

I have had yeast in my mouth, not very bad case though, for a couple months on and off.

When I eat chocolate, the yeast in my mouth seems to be suppressed.

I eat rather low-sugar chocolate, 'cause I like it that way - standard bittersweet is too sweet for me.

And at my local co-op, there's a really good organic pure cocoa powder. Quite often, what I do is use about 2 tablespoons of cocoa with only 1 teaspoon sugar, with hot water for a drink.

There is no question that pure sugar is not at all a good thing to eat for anyone sick or well. White flour also has no benefits either.

Now the fun part. We need to eat fruit and veggies, and a lot of them in all different colors! To get the all the vitamins we need or our diet we must eat them!

We must eat a lot of fiber. Our system needs it to stay flushed out and to be healthy.

We need to eat carbs! You can starve your body of carbs for a while, but your spitting in the wind. Our brain runs on sugar and carbs, they are one and the same to out body.

It is impossible to be healthy if you cut out whole food groups for long periods of time. You can fool your body for a while, but in time you will pay the price.

Balance, balance, balance!

Eat a large range of foods!

When tried to do the lo carbs and fruit thing for a couple of months I had a trace of yeast in my mouth.

Now that I eat lots of carbs and fruit, no change in yeast, I have tons of energy, and Now I am 95% well.

number of symptoms
severity of herxes
general discomfort while on ABX ,etc.

I'd bet a round of meds on the low sugar end of the line being a lot happier and easier in their bodies

For a lot of reasons. Primarily yeast. But also because sugar saps your energy (in the long run) and your immune system really needs that energy during your recovery.

So call me a scold-y old harridan.

But I'm feeling pretty dern good.

"Morphology, physiology, and DNA nucleotide composition of Lyme disease spirochetes, Borrelia, Treponema, and Leptospira were compared. Morphologically, Lyme disease spirochetes resemble Borrelia. They lack cytoplasmic tubules present in Treponema, and have more than one periplasmic flagellum per cell end and lack the tight coiling which are characteristic of Leptospira. Lyme disease spirochetes are also similar to Borrelia in being microaerophilic, catalase-negative bacteria.

They utilize carbohydrates such as glucose as their major carbon and energy sources and produce lactic acid. "

When I first started with my LLMD, he put me on a no sugar diet, THE Yeast Connection by William Crook, to be exact.

I followed it to a tee for several months, then I CHEATED.

Yes, cheated and suffered needlessly. Yeast that feeds on bad carbs and sugar make your lyme symptoms worsen. Believe me I know.

Hopefully by now you have all read Dr. Burrascano's "Diagnostic Hints and Treament Guidelines For Lyme and Other Tick Borne Illnesses. If not, please go to:
http://www.ilads.org/burrascano_1102.htm

He has a total explanation of why we should NOT use sugar or caffiene, and why we need to follow a low/no carb diet.

In all of your defenses I have found myself to have an exaggerated sweet tooth since I started abx. All I wanted was a big chunk of gooey chocolate cake yet I rarely had cravings like that before.

You have probably also read what he says about "required suppliments". One of the ones he mentions is a good B-complex to be supplimented with Vitamin B-6 for more severe neuropathy.

I have found that in using the B-complex I have lost my sweet tooth which makes following his recommended dietary guidelines way easier to live with. I've also had the other benefits of a clearer mind, less fatigue and a better sense of well being.

If one is too highly limit there fiber, fruit, and even types and amount of veggies, how will you ever get enough fiber for your digestive system, enough vitamins and minerals to keep your overall metabolism at its peak?

There has been talk here about cancer being associated with lyme. How do we protect against it, high fiber, high fruit, and high veggie diet.

You can limit your diet for a time, but to try to avoid much of entire food groups for a long period of time is a road to disaster!

I am not talking about soda, cakes, and pure sugars and kunk with empty calories.

Its all about balance!

After being very ill I have become 95% + better in 6 months.

I eat a large range of foods and feel great!

I am well enough to work, go to school and support a family.

You are what you eat, eat well, eat a balanced diet, your body will thank you!

Once I started supplementing, my chocolate addiction virtually disappeared. (I am not a lymie, sis is.)

You wouldn't believe the number of chocolate recipes I have! I seldom make them anymore.

I believe that an important part of life is experiencing pleasures and all the variety of foods that we have been given. I remember hearing once that Julia Child said something about how ridiculous it is for someone to deny themselves the pleasures and joys of good food. Don't cut out all fats, carbs and sweets, she said. Just eat less of them!

So, as a desparate effort to rid myself of this disease, I might do something drastic like cut way back on something I love. But on an ongoing basis, enjoying the pleasures of good food has been the source of many happy memories and is one thing that my wife and I share in common and enjoy very much together. For some, a draconian diet might be the right choice, but I like Jon's call for balance!

And I personally have seen no correlation so far between my symptoms and my sugar intake (I actually got feeling quite a bit better over Christmas - - and boy was that not sugar-free!).

But I remain convinceable that I should alter my diet if it's what is required to get healthy. Any more tidbits out there?

I think what's happening is that we may have different ideas of what a balanced diet is. I might eat starches and grains with every meal whereas someone might eat less. There are so many different diets out there that it would be impossible to make the error of assuming that one diet ONLY is the right one.

My belief is that if you are strongly and consistantly craving something, you're body is trying to tell you something. Find out what that craving means. I have learned that when I get a sweet tooth and am tired and sort of depressed or blah, vitamin B-complex really helps. Someone earlier mentioned magnesium. Notice how both of those things are in Dr. Burrascano's guidelines?

If your body will accept a low carbo diet, go for it. I personally would not risk going beyond that as I have found that if I try to eat a meal with carbo's or a chocolate bar, I get a sore throat and I herx more drastically than if I don't.

Fibers are found in many foods that will fit into Dr. Burrascano's guidelines like all vegetables and some fruits in small quantities here and there amongst other good choices. I had a tough time adjusting to this as almost everything in the grocery stores these days has starch, grains or sugars! Makes it hard, doesn't it?

With a little imagination and a sense of determination we can eat healthier, use suppliments and get our required rest to assist our immune system in our recovery.

Bottom line?

Everyone is an individual and what one thinks is alot of sweets in one's diet may not appear so to another!

I limit my sweets to the occasional chocolate (Valentine's Day is coming and I will NOT forfeit any chocolate!!! ) and organic black licorice.

Soooo, moderation? Balance?

Stress isn't good for you either so if it is less stressful to ALLOW yourself some chocolate....why not?

Go with your gut feeling and find your 'limit'...

Okay....where's my chocolate????

p.s.
I limit my intake of chocolate but allow myself some by buying chocolate chips.

When I have an 'urge' I just nibble on a few!

THANKS, Danq!!!!

Ok Miss sugar high........

Dark chocolate IS good for us! I just got through reading it in my Prevention Magazine.

Here is one quote.."about an ounce of chocolate a day increases good cholesterol and prevents bad cholesterol from oxidizing, a process that may lead to heart disease."

The article says Dove dark chocolate is one of the best.

Chocolate is also full of antioxidants. It states that pure cocoa powder has the most antioxidants.

It also has lots of yummy recipes like Triple Dark Chocolate Mousse Pie.....Whoooweeee....and hot Cocca made with Dove dark chocolate!

That sounded like pretty impressive proof to me that chocolate is a MUST for well-being...!

Show hubby this thread ..*hint*....*hint***

A 2 lb. box of Godiva chocolates wouldn't be so bad...*hint*....*hint*** !!!

A research study was done at Harvard a few years back. It surveyed Harvard graduates on there chocolate intake.

They found that those who ate one or two chcolate bars a month lived on a average 1 year longer.

Those who ate one a week lived still slightly longer then average. Again moderation seems key.

Well, go have a chocolate bar already.

As a dark chocolate lover, this is priceless:

From bbcnews.com August 27, 2003:

[Researchers] recruited 12 healthy volunteers, seven woman and five men, who were asked to eat dark and milk chocolate.

They found that volunteers had to consume twice as much milk chocolate as dark chocolate to obtain the same amount of antioxidants.

To take account of this, the participants, aged 25 and 35, were offered a double helping of milk chocolate.

The researchers also looked at what happened when the volunteers ate dark chocolate and drank milk at the same time.

Dark chocolate [by itself] was found to boost blood antioxidant levels by nearly 20%. However, there was no such effect when volunteers ate milk chocolate or drank milk with dark chocolate.

---------
Lesson: Dark chocolate rules!!!

I can't imagine that a small amount of bittersweet (65%+ cocoa solids) could do too much damage to the immune system -- it has antioxidants and minimal sugar content!

This giving up sugar in general is hard, although I've found since starting magnesium supplements, my cravings have decreased (along with an increase in GI problems!).

I know cause I quit smoking 6 weeks ago and have been eating bad ever since. I still eat all the good foods like my greens soup, fish and chicken, but I have been having sweets everyday and had candy in my mouth for like a month straight and got yeast in mouth.

You do lose your taste for things once you avoid them for awhile. (I lost 70lbs on the blood type diet). But once you start again it;s hard to stop. Just like smoking, well.......not that bad.

My cravings are better so, I have been trying to behave, but it is hard.

Lymiecanuck

This post ended over a YEAR ago, not a few months ago.

Haha... weirdos

Hint- Im just teasing ya, some.

Thought you and every other chocolate lover here might be interested in this article.
http://www.icco.org/questions/yeast.htm

This expains why chocolate is Oh, so tasty!

DMC

My plan is to get the molds to melt your own shaped chocolate. Then I will melt unsweetended dark chocolate and mix in the natural sweetener stevia (also known as sweetleaf). Then pour it into the molds and have lots of wonderful dark chocolate with no sugar.

I make my hot chocolate with unsweetened cocoa and stevia. It works well with the chocolate.

Personally, I had a year of recurrent yeast infections a while back. That alone keeps me away from sugar and carbs. But I do eat a square off of my dark chocolate bar when I need it.

I have explored stevia's capabilities for a couple of years now, and have had to come to the sad conclusion that stevia and chocolate just don't go together. Others have as well, so I would hate for you to waste good chocolate by mixing it with stevia.
(Stevia's got that darned licorice-y aftertaste!)

How about Splenda or Sweet n Low instead? I know some of the big choco companies make candies with sweet n low.

Regular sugar is processed and bleached and loaded with chemicals from the processing. Once sugar is bleached and processed, the manufacturers try to put back all of the good stuff that was lost from the processing. Usually, it is an artifical way of getting the natural nutrition that would still be there is it wasn't refined in the first place.

You can purchase organic sugar and save your liver the overtime of trying to figure out what to do with all of the chemicals.

Also, as far as the carbs go, the same applies. Go for the unrefined, unbleached.

Wheat is a "trigger" food for many, many people. There are other alternatives, such as rice flour, rye flour, etc. Just seek out the unrefined, unbleached ones.

I agree with those that stated that moderation should be used.

frenchbraid

Frenchbraid,
For some of us, unrefined/unprocessed sugars and carbs are still bad. For me, it's the ease with which I get yeast problems.

frenchbraid

I'm happy to see this post come up again. Let me use the benefit of hindsight to answer my own question. I'm VERY happy to say that I now consider myself cured of Lyme. I've been off abx for over 9 months now and am virtually back to my old normal self. HOOORAAAAAYYY!!

And, I must confess, that through it all I never did give up sugar, chocolate, or any other food. Now, I know we each are very different in how we respond, but I would say BEWARE of people who say that you absolutely CANNOT have something, or absolutely MUST do something to get well. I just don't think it's ever that simple. So if a little sugar (taken in wisdom and moderation) helps get you through a rough time and doesn't zap you health-wise, then don't be afraid of it! I'm so glad I didn't have to alter my eating habits much to get well again. I know I'm very fortunate. But I think I would have complicated my ability to get well if I had to sacrifice "happy" food along with all the other things the illness took from me.

Eat some chocolate and smile!

Does anyone have any secret to creating a comfort food that tastes comforting, but is harmless to us? (that's probably too good to be true, but thought I'd try anyway).

Can be found at Health food stores or purchased on line from many growers. Bon Appetit and remember Chocolate lovers that there are good antioxidents in moderate chocolate consumption!

I do still eat a good amount of carbohydrates, but whenever there's a choice, I opt for complex over simple. It's all about balance.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jon A:
Hi Chocolate lovers,

A research study was done at Harvard a few years back. It surveyed Harvard graduates on there chocolate intake.

They found that those who ate one or two chcolate bars a month lived on a average 1 year longer.

Those who ate one a week lived still slightly longer then average. Again moderation seems key.

Well, go have a chocolate bar already.

Be well, Jon

---

Though chocolate is a powerful antioxidant and full of good stuff like magnesium, the amount of sugar put in most chocolate products kinda makes it moot.

Not saying it's bad to enjoy some now and then, but to say person A will live longer than person B given their chocolate intake is kinda silly.

Not trying to start an argument by any means, it just surprises me the outcome of supposedly reputable studies that are truly just junk science.