Topic: Dr Siegal, & his LD quackery..you won't believe this,(HOT)
rosespetal
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 571
posted
I made an appt with Siegal a bit back, requested by my Rheumatologist, and was told to fill out what came in the mail, and return it back after I complete it. He was "THE ONE" to see about Lyme and is a SUPPOSED expert in this case. The 'study packet' I recieved was about Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and was approx 15+ pages. Throughout the whole packet, nothing was mentioned regarding a tick bite or anything Lyme related, as was my reason for making my office visit. I continued reading this packet, only to find mental status questions carefully worded, and some contradictory, mainly grasping onto a patients emotional or lack of status, rather than whole hearted bodily symptoms. Along with this intersting study, was a brochure about lyme disease, a very brief and biased one. It is informative, for people who have suffered from lyme, with symptoms that DON'T respond to antibiotics, but leaves a BIG hole for those who do respond. It also stated that most 'chronic lyme' is due to inflammation of tissues etc, and will resolve after under 6 mos without antibiotics, rehabilitation is the key. It then goes onto fibromyalgia taking place of active lyme. It states many normal people tested + for lyme disease will tset + without having the disease. Its a false +, and that tested often enough, sooner or later a + result will show up even in healthy non infected people (I should HOPE he's talking EIA!) It states Lyme Disease is made up on the basis of a false +, and it's no wonder patients don't improve, the patient did not have LD in the first place. It does have some 'true' facts regarding the tests, why some really have lyme but the tests are - etc, but I find it biased towards those people who DO find abx helping their symptoms, with that nothing is mentioned. I am curious to find can antibiotics soly help with inflammation with no disease?? If that were the case I would guess people with RA would be lubed up on them continously. I am amazed, and disappointed that my Dr, that I actually had some 'faith' in, wants me to goto this duck, and she will be recieving a copy of my booklet I got, along with a copy of this hidden mental status to blame chronic fatigue, fibro or whatever, on LD. My report is finished lol. Is that amazing?? -Michelle
Posts: 1250 | From NJ usa | Registered: Jan 2001
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
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Rosespetal...Beware! Your instincts are RIGHT!!!!
If you send it back it can and will be used against you! The insurance companies (and future ducks) would LOVE to see you diagnosed with one of the other conditions to save them big bucks. If you return it and "he" says you never had Lyme, or it has been treated, etc. you will be marked for life with that diagnosis. Unfortunately, he has the power to do this to you and the insurance companies eat it up! If you try to fight it after the fact, you will be referred out as a mental/emotional case. Trust me, please. If you have ever listened to one thing I have said, please listen now.
I don't know how well you know this duck...but he is famous for making Lyme folks miserable. Warning, beware of this duck!
I can't tell you what to do. I REALLY wish I could in this situation! I REALLY wish I could! Since I can't, I will offer my best advise, and hope you will listen to me.
If I was there I would rip that form out of your hand (politely of course on this action), stomp on it, kick it in the mud, burn it or use it for toilet paper. Then mail it back to them. This is a bad situation. BAD BAD!
I would also refuse to go to him and explain to your doc that you will pass on this referal. I will bet your doc has simply been drawn in to the hype and is not intentionally trying to hurt you. This duck sounds good on paper to someone not familiar with Lyme, but don't you believe it! You have already learned enough to see how bad his literature is, for which I am VERY proud of you! But PLEASE forget even going to this duck. Lymies can be hurt by this duck and have been.
PLEASE< PLEASE< PLEASE don't go. And you don't see me react this strongly to many posts. I don't usually like to "beg". But in this case I will.
But of course, do as you wish...it is your decision. I am choking as I say this! (Oh, please don't let her do it, please)
This duck won first place in the Steere look alike contest! Ask others. Get more input.
posted
sounds like this guy is ready to help and will look at your tests and symtoms with an open mind. lol....not!!!!!!!!!!!!! i would explain to my dr that i have no faith in this dr and would get another referal. i would not, would not! waste my time going to see him or her as it may be.
Posts: 402 | From holland,mass. usa | Registered: Dec 2000
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rosespetal
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 571
posted
I had an inkling I shouldn't go lol, but thanks for the extra push, as this point I am SO confused, and so lost with all of this. I will cancel tomorrow, but I will keep this weird survey as it's amazing, and a well thought throu scam. If ever I get the energy, I will post the strangest questions, you will all be flabbergasted. Thanks again as always, when all this is done, and the lyme is figured out, we're having a HUGE bash! lol. Mel can even come Hey I think I figured out how to do the smiles Posts: 1250 | From NJ usa | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
PLEASE listen to Tincup!!! I will find the previous posts on Siegal and bring them to the top. Expert... my $%#
Posts: 733 | From CT | Registered: Oct 2000
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Sandra Daniella
Unregistered
posted
Sounds like he's an expert something alright!
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quote:Originally posted by rosespetal: I made an appt with Siegal a bit back, requested by my Rheumatologist, and was told to fill out what came in the mail, and return it back after I complete it. He was "THE ONE" to see about Lyme and is a SUPPOSED expert in this case. The 'study packet' I recieved was about Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and was approx 15+ pages. Throughout the whole packet, nothing was mentioned regarding a tick bite or anything Lyme related, as was my reason for making my office visit. I continued reading this packet, only to find mental status questions carefully worded, and some contradictory, mainly grasping onto a patients emotional or lack of status, rather than whole hearted bodily symptoms. Along with this intersting study, was a brochure about lyme disease, a very brief and biased one. It is informative, for people who have suffered from lyme, with symptoms that DON'T respond to antibiotics, but leaves a BIG hole for those who do respond. It also stated that most 'chronic lyme' is due to inflammation of tissues etc, and will resolve after under 6 mos without antibiotics, rehabilitation is the key. It then goes onto fibromyalgia taking place of active lyme. It states many normal people tested + for lyme disease will tset + without having the disease. Its a false +, and that tested often enough, sooner or later a + result will show up even in healthy non infected people (I should HOPE he's talking EIA!) It states Lyme Disease is made up on the basis of a false +, and it's no wonder patients don't improve, the patient did not have LD in the first place. It does have some 'true' facts regarding the tests, why some really have lyme but the tests are - etc, but I find it biased towards those people who DO find abx helping their symptoms, with that nothing is mentioned. I am curious to find can antibiotics soly help with inflammation with no disease?? If that were the case I would guess people with RA would be lubed up on them continously. I am amazed, and disappointed that my Dr, that I actually had some 'faith' in, wants me to goto this duck, and she will be recieving a copy of my booklet I got, along with a copy of this hidden mental status to blame chronic fatigue, fibro or whatever, on LD. My report is finished lol. Is that amazing?? -Michelle
This QUACKERY is truly amazing; unimaginable! The motive is beyond me! I hear all these stories as bad or worse than mine- the real sad thing is, it's not really individual quackery, I believe, but institutionally coerced and sanctioned quackery, imposed by the corporate dictatorship. We need to keep up the activism! Somehow!....
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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RoadRunner
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 380
posted
NO!!!No!!!No!!! Dr. Sigal is not a good doctor to see if you have Lyme, unless you feel the need to see a psychiatrist. That is where he will send you. He is very much one of the Steere groupies. Some of Sigals Bull reposted from the Newsgroup!!
" Myths and facts about Lyme disease" by Leonard"It's all in your mind" Sigal
Cleve Clin J Med 1997 April, 64(4):203-209
"Lyme disease has taken hold in the imagination of the general public and physicians alike. Although the disease is real, the diagnosis is often false. Patients demanding an explanation for feeling out of sorts, and physicians too willing to oblige them with improper use of serologic tests and useless therapies both foster a mythology that conscientious physicians should try to combat. This article debunks the myths and presents the facts."
(Leonard's definition of improper serologic tests are any tests that are positive for Lyme disease. Leonard is a rheumatologist and doesn't want to lose any patients.)
Listen to what happens when Leonard dabbles in psychiatry.
The American Journal of Medicine, April 24, 1995, Vol. 98(4A) Leonard "I don't get it" Sigal
"Some clinicians still do not recognize Lyme disease when they see it and do not consider it when appropriate."(Duh!)" Others recognize the disease but use drug regimes that are inappropriate in light of current knowledge. Even more anxiety is produced when a Lyme disease counterculture is willing to diagnose Lyme disease when others will not. A seed of doubt concerning the family doctor and the medical establishment is planted and takes root. "The absence of an official source .....and the presence of a readily available counterculture accentuating doubt and apprehension increase anxiety. The news media in the New York metropolitan area and elsewhere were quick to identify Lyme disease as a major story. However, the goal of the media is not always to be a source of education and objective facts."(I'm not making this up)"Thus, reports emphasizing personal tragedy, often not factual and not corroborated by unbiased sources, reinforce confusion and anxiety. Communities organized into support groups disseminate a mixed product of information and misinformation. "Many of the endemic areas where anxiety about Lyme disease is greatest comprise some of the most recently developed communities. Many of the inhabitants are recent emigres from New York city who are being told that they can get Lyme disease in their backyards and that the risk from the ' wilderness' includes a nearly invisible 'bug' against which there is seemingly no defense. Previously the only arthropod about which they were concerned was the cockroach! In escaping from the crime and crowding of the city, they have exchanged one danger for another, The assault on the concept of 'your home is your castle' does obvious damage to their security. We must be aware of the mythology surrounding Lyme disease in our communities and counter with the facts and the results of scientific studies."
Pseudo-Lyme written by a Pseudo-Lyme expert.
Repost from the dejanews archives--Remember, Leonard "I feel your pain" Sigal is a board member of the ALDF and is a rheumatologist that tesifies for insurance companies against LLMD's. He is a storm trooper against Lyme treatment and diagnosis. He would lose too many patients. He loves to hear himself talk. ___________________________________ By the person who has said the LD vaccine is 100% effective!
Oh, the humanity!
Rita
PSEUDO-LYME DISEASE
Leonard H. Sigal, MD
From "Bulletin on the Rheumatic Diseases"; a Publication of the ARTHRITIS FOUNDATION; Vol.44, No.8, December 1995
Retrospective reviews at two Lyme Disease (LD) referral centers showed that most patients evaluated did not have LD (1,2). Among those seen at our center for possible LD have been patients with ankylosing spondylitis, rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, lupus, anti-cardiolipin antibody syndrome, multiple sclerosis, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, Alzheimer's disease, brain tumors, and various other non-LD disease. On the other hand, by careful clinical and laboratory analysis we have identified LD in patients previously thought to have multiple sclerosis, senile dementia, gout, rheumatoid athritis, and "viral syndromes".
Overdiagnosis of Lyme Disease
Although one cannot extrapolate to general practice, it is likely that overdiagnosis of LD is quite common. Given the ease with which people travel, it is common to see a patient who might have LD in nonendemic areas. The print and broadcast media disseminate incomplete or erroneous stories about LD. Lyme disease support groups and newsletters spread stories and speculation as if fact. In this climate, people who don't feel well search for answers and often consider and occasionally embrace the diagnosis of LD. It has become a diagnosis of exclusion even in areas where there has never been a documented case of LD, resulting in therapy-related morbidity (3,4) and expense (5). Why is LD overdiagnosed?
The great imitator. One reason for LD's overdiagnosis is the misapplication of the concept of LD as the great imitator: Early in the delineation of the syndrome(s) caused by Borrelia burgodorferi, LD's spectrum was thought to be so broad as to mimic many medical and neurological syndromes. Thus the definition of LD was open ended. The spectrum of LD is now well described (6). The diagnosis of LD is made all too frequently in patients with "symptoms compatible with LD" but whose examinations lack objective findings. In such patients, a seemingly common missed diagnosis is fibromyalgia (7-9). They may have cognitive dysfunction, thought to be central nervous system (CNS) Lyme disease, and achiness, ascribed to Lyme arthritis. There are no objective findings, no spinal fluid analysis or neuropsychologic testing to establish CNS LD, and no true inflammatory joint disease to suggest Lyme arthritis. Nonetheless, the diagnosis is late Lyme disease and antibiotic treatment follows. The lack of response heightens anxiety about the purported incurability of LD.
Poor reputation of serologic testing. A second reason for LD's overdiagnosis is the poor reputation of serologic testing in LD. Recent studies have instilled realistic confidence in serologic confirmation of LD (10). However, tests should not be sued to make the diagnosis of LD (see the sidebar), only to confirm a clinical diagnosis. False-positive enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) results are common, seen in 7% or more of the general population (2,11). Because the incidence of LD is well below 1% even in hyperendemic areas, most positive ELISAs are false positives. All positive or equivocal ELISAs should be corroborated by immunoblot. False negativity in real LD is relatively rare. "seronegative LD" is a common explanation for poorly described complaints without objective evidence of disease - ie, diagnosis by exclusion. Seronegativity in patients diagnosed by a process of exclusion, or by viewing clinical practice through the peculiar prism of "everything is LD", is incorrectly viewed as proof that the tests are inaccurate. In reality, the tests are good; it is the compulsion to diagnose LD that is in error. No diagnostic criteria. A third reason for LD's overdiagnosis is the absence of verified criteria for diagnosing LD: The epidemiologic Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)LD criteria cannot be used to diagnose LD. The absence of set standards and the persisting, incorrect concept of LD as the great imitator causes the diagnosis of LD to fill the void of non-disease (12). Additionally, anger focused at the "needlessly regid" CDC criteria fans the flames of LD anxiety. Slow resolution of symptoms. A fourth explanation of LD's overdiagnosis is the slow resolution of symptoms related to LD: In true LD, resolution may be delayed for months (13). Further antibiotic therapy will not hasten the steady response. If the initial diagnosis of LD was incorrect, lack of response to antibiotics is predictable. A lack of response is often misinterpreted as indicating that the organism is refractory or dormant. There is no evidence that B. burgdorferi is resistant to any of the standard antibiotics used for LD. Lack of response to appropriate therapy should suggest the original diagnosis was erroneous (13).
Lack of response to appropriate antibiotics is a rare event in true LD. Worsening of true inflammation, extension to a new area (developing arthritis ina previously unaffected joint), or progression to later features of LD (development of peripheral neuropathy in someone previously treated for erythema migrans) might suggest that prior therapy had not been effective. Ticks that spread LD can also transmitotherpathogens, including Babesia microti and a newly described Ehrlichia. Patients acquiring symptoms after tick bites not responding to standard therapy for LD might have another infection.
Effects of the media. A fifth explanation of LD's overdiagnosis lies in the effects of the media, lay and medical: Exciting stories tend to sell advertising in the broadcast and print media. Spectacular but unsubstantiated accounts of the pain and suffering of LD are printed without verification, and the public accepts them as fact. The medical literature has compounded our problem by publishing peculiar cases of LD without defining the universe from which these rare cases are drawn. Describing "numerator" without "denominator" gives the false sense that these clinical outliers are common, reinforcing the impression of LD as the great imitator.
Pseudo -Lyme Disease
Although these are all explanations for overdiagnosis and treatment of LD, the real reason for this phenomenon is a lack of rigor in making the diagnosis and following the patient. An LD alternative reality has been accepted in some communities: LD can cause any picture in clinical practice, the serologic tests are worthless, and therapy does not eradicate the bug - ie, LD cannot be cured. A new diagnosis has emerged, "pseudo-LD", to coin a term. It describes the certainty that LD is present when there is no verifiable evidence of disease. Antibiotic therapy is given for this"LD", followed by more treatment when symptoms do not resolve promptly.
In practicing medicine we must demand objective findings to diagnose patients; we must develop and use diagnostic criteria; and we must include the possibility of intercurrent disease or evolution of the process in our ongoing analysis of patients. With certain points in mind, pseudo-LD can be identified (see sidebar).
Pseudo- LD is more common and more insidious than LD and more difficult to treat. It is often quite difficult to dissuade the patient from belief in pseudo-LD as the explanation of all problems. Pseudo-LD is the most recent in a long line of explanatioons that are acceptable to patients who feel "out of sorts". We must not overdiagnosis or underdiagnose real LD. We must identify and debunk pseudo-LD whenever we find it.
*Lyme disease (LD) cannot be diagnosed by serologic testing - one can only use testing to confirm the diagnosis. Of relevance to the use of diagnostic testing is Bayes' theorem, which describes the predictive value of results based on the pretest (clinical) likelihood of diagnosis. This is especially important in LD, in which there is a high frequency of false-positive test results.
*If the pretest likelihood of LD is high, the predictive value of a positive test is very high - ie., a positive test confirms the clinical (pretest) impression of LD.
*If the pretest likelihood of LD is low, the predictive value of a positive test is quite low - ie., a positive test is much more likely to be a false positive than to indicate the patient has LD. Thus, screening serologic testing in a population with a low incidence of LD is not only useless, it can create a serologically based diagnosis of pseudo-LD.
*The term "LD test" is incorrect. We measure antibodies binding to Borrelia burgdorferi, which may not be specific and do not necessarily have intrinsic diagnostic value. Seroreactivity is neither proof of the diagnosis of LD, nor of active LD.
*In the absence of documented objective evidence of Lyme disease (LD) (eg., rash, arthritis, neurologic findings, cardiac arrhymias), the diagnosis of LD should be questioned. *Be skeptical if the diagnosis hinges on the presence of "symptoms compatible with or suggestive of LD". The symptoms of LD are nonspecific and can be found in many other diseases.
*Immunoblotting is necessary to confirm positive or equivocal enzyme-linked immunosorbent assays (ELISAs). In 1995, a positive ELISA without corroboration does not denote seropositivity. Equivocal ELISAs are often incorrectly imbued with diagnostic weight.
*Be wary of the diagnosis in a patient who has had multiple tests, all (or all but one) negative. "Seronegative LD" (which does occur, albeit rarely) in the absence of historical or physical findings suggesting LD should be questioned.
*There is no role for "urinary antigen tests" in evaluating LD. Polymerase chain reaction (PCR) is a technique that allows one to identify the DNA of the organism. The results are highly dependent on the quality of the laboratory doing the testing. PCR is experimental and should not be used to diagnose LD.
*Repeated courses of oral or intravenous antibiotic therapy, especially if given for nonspecific complaints not corroborated by objective findings, should raise suspicion about the original diagnosis.
References
1. Sigal LH: Summary of the first 100 patients seen at a Lyme disease referral center. Am J. Med. 88:577-581, 1990. 2. Steere AC, et al.: The overdiagnosis of Lyme disease. JAMA 269:1812-1816, 1993. 3. Ettestad PJ, et al.: Ceftriaxone-associated biliary complications of treatment of suspected disseminated Lyme disease - New Jersey, 1990-1992. MWR 42:39 - 42, 1993. 4 Sigal LH: Editorial: Lyme disease: primum non nocere, J. Infect Dis. 171:423-424, 1995. 5. Lightfoot RW, et al.: Treatment of "possible Lyme disease". A practical policy of the American College of Rheumatology and the Infectious Disease Society of America based on cost-benefit analysis. Ann Intern Med 119:503-509, 1993. 6. Steere AC: Lyme Disease, N Engl. J. Med 321:586-596, 1989. 7. Sigal LH, Patella SJ: Lyme aarthritis as the incorrect diagnosis in fibromyalgia in childern and adolescents. Pediatrics 90:523-528, 1992. 8. Hsu V, et al.: "Chronic Lyme disease" as the incorrect diagnosis in patients with fibromyalgia. Arthritis Rheum 36:1493-1500, 1993. 9. Dinerman H, Steere AC: Lyme disease associated with fibromyalgia. Ann Intern Med 117:281-285, 1992. 10. Dressler F., et al.: Western blotting in the serodiagnosis of Lyme disease. J infect Dis 1677:392-400, 1993. 11. Bakken LL, et al.: Performance of 45 laboratories participating in a profeciency testing program for Lyme disease serology. JAMA 268:891-895, 1992. 12. Meador CK: The art and science of nondisease. N Engl J Med 272:92-95, 1965. 13. Sigal LH: Persisting complaints attributed to Lyme disease: possible mechanisms and implications for management. Am J. Med. 96:365-374, 1994.
quote:Originally posted by rosespetal: I am curious to find can antibiotics soly help with inflammation with no disease?? If that were the case I would guess people with RA would be lubed up on them continously.
Siegal is absolutely a quack, but let me say that it is possible that antibiotics can act as an antiinflammatory and in some cases it can complicate trying to determine how the body is reacting. There are also reasons in Chinese Medicine that explain how these have an antiinflammatory effect - some women with certain bladder conditions do better on antibiotics as antiinflammatories than NSAID's -- I can't remember the explanation exactly. I believe that there are a number of RA doctors that treat with antibiotics -- I don't know the theory, since I just browsed through those pages without reading them.
All of this however, does not take away from the fact that Siegal is to be avoided at all costs.
Beverly
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Member # 1271
posted
Up to save.
Posts: 6639 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
This doesnt surprise me one bit. the guy is a total jackass who should be quaking around his polluted duck pond with the rest of the ducks. Jackass is not a curse by the way, its a donkey's real name, and its allowed and in the dictionary. Sometimes there are no words, and I am in a bad Lyme herx mood, so therefore, here is my salute to Sigal. Stay away from him.
posted
That man is a duck! Please stay away from him. Not only is he Lyme-ignorant, he is also very arrogant.
If you're willing to make the drive from Pompton Lakes to New Brunswick and don't mind driving another 45-50 minutes further south, I can provide you with the name of an LLMD. Email me if you're interested.
Linda
[This message has been edited by richtersl (edited 05 March 2003).]
Posts: 749 | From New Hope, PA | Registered: May 2002
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Beverly
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posted
Up.
Posts: 6639 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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caat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 2321
posted
someone with money really ought to sue the freaking pants off sigal for conflict of interest and insurance racketiering. I mean that. He's worse than steere- the guy is a sociopath.
Does anyone have those reports for Rosepetal? The ones of how many times and how much $$$ steere and sigal were paid on consulting fees by various insurance companies? It adds up to quite a bit of money for a couple of less than top rate researchers.
Those would be good to show your doc along with a copy of that form they sent you. If she still recommended him after that, I'd run.
Don't lose that form Rosepetal, we'd love to see it.
Posts: 1436 | From Humboldt county ca usa | Registered: Mar 2002
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bpeck
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Member # 3235
posted
You all pretty much know me - Multiple autoimmune diagnoses for over 25 years - with all symptoms resolving (including sight-threatening Uveitis) post abx therapy for Lyme.
What I find pretty disheartening - is that I've been following the tratments for autoimmune diseases for over 25 years, and the whole Med. profession really has not moved one foot forward to find the root causes... and treatments are immunosuppressive.
Now, over the last 3 years, I've seen the emergence of the "Post Lyme SYndrome" (PLS)theory. Which basically is an autoimmune theory, and it's being pushed by people like Seigal and accepted by main stream docs including by LLMDs....
And they're trying so hard to prove cross-reactivity for protein bands 31 and 34 . That becuase, if you read the research - people who had the Lyme vaccine (made from Osp A/B) got pretty sick - and then expressed a boat load of bands on a western blot..... now either these people had latent Lyme, which was activated - or it was an autoimmune reaction - it's looking like they're going with the autoimmune activation theory.
Once PLS is accepted... which it looks like it's well on it's way to being - for Lyme there'll be a course of abx - for some lenghth - if you're still symptomatic, then you'll be told you have PLS.
Kara Tyson
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 939
posted
Wow. This is amazing.
I am in an OFFICIAL study with Brown University on weight loss. It follows people who have lost a large amount of weight and kept it off (in my case 150 lbs).
I have to fill out HUGE packets of information. Many times. Plus they sent me a statement of their ethics that I had to sign (showing that I was given a copy).
posted
I'll admit that after three years, one PICC line and one Central IV later, I was starting to wonder if this wasn't some autoimmune thing, and the Bb was gone....
BUT, When my son, despite abx and no breastfeeding, tested positive for lyme (whole blood PCR) at six months of age last April, with symptoms (hypotonia), it made me realize, it wasn't in my head at this point....this darned bug was still in my body!!!
How could I have passed Bb to him, if I had killed it all off already, and this was just some "auto immune" thing?
posted
Wanted to ressurrect this. My dad has gotten impatient with my slow or non existent recovery. He is certainly well meaning, but he doesn't realize he is working against me.
This New Brunswick character, and the garbage "clinic" are among the places that he has been calling and asking questions. He wants me to go see Dr. S. I respectfully declined. He also suggested I find out what YALE can do for me. According to him, that is where all the major research for Lyme has been done. I just shook my head. I tried to give him an explanation, but I am sure it sounds like hippie nonsense to him.
How can I get him to stop "helping" me? I need his support, but he is under the impression tyhat I know way less than I really know. It just doesn't make any sense to him that the medical community would be as deceitful as I have made them out to be.
I mean, after all, this is YALE we're talking about, right.
This is very frustrating, after 3 months of backsliding into a horrible place, this is the last thing I need. How do you educate someone that assumes they know more than you?
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Maybe it would help if you watched this presentation at the link below. I haven't seen it yet as I am not even sure my computer has enough memory. But this presentation will pretty much show the IDSA viewpoint. If there is nothing there that makes any sense to you as far as treatment alternatives then I think you will have to stick to LLMD's.
Doubt that you can change your dad's mind at this point.
posted
Has he seen Under Our Skin? It is going to be shown on WNET (NY City) on August 27th at 2:30 PM. It didn't help with my sister or best (not any more) friend. They believe the Yale poop too. But it helped with some others in my life.
Posts: 472 | From New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2007
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lymeboy
Unregistered
posted
oh no there is no need... I am fully aware of how full of $#@! they are. Was just hoping to stop my dad from making my life harder than it is. But you're right I don't think he's coming over to my side. Problem is, I live in his house, and I am forced to deal with him. Like I said, he means well, but he has all the wrong info.
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posted
It is hard to change people who believe in doctors. Especially ones who went to fancy schools. I guess they feel more secure believing in them.
Posts: 472 | From New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
PS... I enjoyed "seeing" all my old LN friends from ages ago!!
--so thanks for resurrecting this!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96227 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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lymeboy
Unregistered
posted
I'll need him to see things my way, otherwise this situation could get a lot worse. There's no way I want to even waste a second talking to another quack. I'm having a hard enough time with my "LLMD"
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MichaelTampa
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Member # 24868
posted
Is there any way you could get him to read "Cure Unknown"? That might do it, if "Under Our Skin" does not.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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TerryK
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posted
Have him start by reading excerpts from the book "Cure Unknown". The author is a senior editor for Discover Magazine.
posted
There is a lot of dirt out there on Lenny as I like to call him, he is far from being called a doctor, I consider him a maggot!
I have a brochure from a former Lyme organazation, it`s dated from the mid to late 90`s and one of the artcles is called the Sigal files.
Turned out a family was trying to get treatment for their Daughter, of course the insurance company would not pay for her treatment and the insurance company was represented in court by none other then Lenny.
The family was represented by a well known Lyme lawyer at the time, he questioned Lenny often as the case went on. Working for this insurance company was only a side job for Sigal, his side job gig was to evaluate lab tests and determine who had Lyme disease and who did not, supposedly the young girls test for LD was declared negative by Lenny, that`s why they were in court.
One of the questions the Lyme lawyer asked Lenny was how much he was getting paid by this insurance company, how bout($650)an hour back then. The Lyme lawyer also asked Lenny if he considered himself a Lyme disease expert, Lenny answered NO he was not.
I do believe the court sided with Lenny and the young girl was denied treatment. So the young girl like many of us is scared for life.
Like the 15 members of the IDSA and Lenny it`s money over the health of people, GOD only knows how many sick people Lenny and the cast of clowns from the IDSA have scared, or sent to an early grave.
The only thing that these SOB`s are good for is shark bait. Avoid Lenny or any of the ducks from the IDSA like the plague. POP
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