Thanks to GiGi who helped me find a ``whole body dentist'' in CT I am mercury free, or maybe my teeth are I should say.

I have read a lot about mercury tests and mercury detox and concluded that it is a tricky process and needs to be done by an expert. Too bad I am on the east coast. The best doc is on the west coast. I need to find a second best there is and he better be on the east coast.

Anyway, there are a lot of ways to do the detox. I would like you to bring up your own experiences of testing for heavy metals and then detox. I hope, many people would read this thread and learn about different approaches and possibly red flags they should be aware of. My intention is to make sure that if someone starts the process she/he does it right and does not get worse.

I would like to gather experiences from as many people as possible on their heavy metal testing and detox. Please, be as descriptive as you can be. Let's discuss the subject until there is no stone unturned.

I have done a lot of research about influence of heavy metals and other toxic agents on immune system and I am convinced I have heavy metals and I am convinced they support Lyme. I think, the most important factor in getting well is to clean up the body so the immune system can start working. I believe, that some people can get lucky and abx alone will clear lyme, especially the once with good microcirculation to bring abx to every cell of their body. I may as well belong to that group, but I do not want to leave my recovery to a chance. I am sure that once I clean up my body I get better than ever before.

I hope that for all of you who wonder what is involved in the process this thread will serve as a primer.

I do not think that detox is just getting a shot or swallowing pills. If one goes that way one has a great chance of being an example on the website http://www.dmpsbackfire.com/default.shtml

Believe me, you do not want that.

It's really helped with my neuro stuff..

I'm sure there are as many heavy metal de-tox protocals as there are lyme disease protocals (or more)

My first indication of mercury overload showed up on Darkfield. You can actually see it surrounding your red blood cells on the dried blood slide.

My alternative doc tested me using kinesiology. Once I completed removal of all my amalgams, he had me start on chlorella. After 6-8 weeks, he added DMSA. I still have 4 weeks to go on the DMSA, but so far, so good

Lab tests for metals are fine. They tell you that you have excess metals in you and which ones. They also tell you, if it's a Doctor's Data test, whether your mineral levels are in order, what's off and what not.

However, Lab tests do not tell you how much metal is in your body and where it is located. It just tells you what came out after the challenge shot. (If you put out the metals in the urine without the challenge shot, it's high time you have a good look at the situation.)

Blood tests and hair analysis are not indicative. If you start a heavy metal detox program and metals show up in the blood and hair, that's a sign that at least the stuff is moving and hopefully on its way out, as long as it does not get reabsorbed in the intestinal tract. You could be dying of metal toxicity and nothing will show in the blood or hair.

Without autonomic response testing, you will not know whether DMPS, DMSA, Cilantro, PCA, Metal-Free or any of the thousand remedies that are out there are suitable for you and are going to do the trick for you. Some work for one person, and don't do a thing but make things worth for another. My husband's reaction toward Cal-EDTA turned totally negative after the third or fourth week and he had to stop it. That's why monitoring is so important. Often the patient cannot tell why he has a problem until he is muscle tested (or whichever form is used).

Wihtout autonomic response testing, or other form of kinesiologcal testing, you will not know if the meds that worked at the outset, are still working 2 month into the program. The body has a way of turning against some substances and you will not benefit from them at one point or another. Selenium works fine for a brief period of time; many turn against it after a while. That all needs to be monitored by someone that knows how.

Picking up a detox protocol from this or that website, just won't do.

A good practitioner can tell you where the metals are sitting in your body (brain or whatever), he can pinpoint them, and test the remedy on you for your particular situation -- before you swallow it.

He/she can also advise you when to do additional therapies. Far Infrared Sauna is
"forbidden" during the early stages of detoxing metals. There are patients who were "just" metal toxic at the start, used the sauna at the wrong time, and ended up with MS symptoms six months later.

Don't try it on your own - please. Detoxing metals also means: the only way out, is the way through. So you need the assist of someone who understands, that you will experience "healing crises or herxheimers" because the metals have to move through your system before they can leave the body. That sometimes is not very pleasant. But if you are under the guidance of someone who knows, you need not fear.

DMSA for some people is a no-no --- it was for me. DMPS for some people is a no-no. It was great for me (the 3-4 shots I got spread out over a few months).

And please remember that there are two distinct functions - one drug or remedy mobilizes the heavy metal deposits, i.e. stirs it up. Another remedy has to come along and move it totally out of the body.
There is not one medicine or herb that does it all.

Also, be sure to have your replacement fillings tested kinesiologically before they are put in. Any biological dentist should automatically do that or offer you this service. You don't want to go to all the trouble and expense only to find out too late that your body is not compatible with the new material being used for the amalgam replacement. All that needs to be taken into consideration and you should discuss all of this beforehand with the dentist doing the work.

Good luck.

DMPS - I think this agent is the most dangerous one and requires extreme caution. Only the best of the best doctors should be playing with this stuff. This agent requires enormous preparation. Liver, guts and kidney should be functioning close to 100%. Even a challenge shot requires preparation since the dosage used 250 mg can actually move quite a lot of mercury. Obviously each of us reacts differently to every chemical out there and muscle testing or some other form of testing should be performed before the agent is used. However, even muscle testing is not 100% thus I suggest if one wants to use it one should try it in smaller dosage than 250mg. In addition, I would also think that taking trace minerals along with main minerals for a few months before the test would be beneficial. Of course there should be a period of time before the test when these minerals should not be taken because they would obscure the picture. This in my opinion is very important so the good minerals do not get depleted a lot. This is especially important for sick people. You do not want to loose zinc when your immune system needs it most.
Next is the liver. Detoxification in the liver has two pahses. Phase I - The toxin is made more water-soluble and more biochemically reactive. This is accomplished by a group of enzymes (about 150 of them) collectively called "cytochrome P450's''. In fact, at this stage the toxin is "opened" up by these enzymes so it will bind or conjugate with an acceptable substrate in Phase II, forming a complex the liver now recognizes as foreign and will excrete via the bowels. There are a lot of free radicals produced in this process and we must have enough anti-oxidant present to offset it or else other implications to health will result. Just imagine what can happen if the liver can not process all the mercury floating around.
For phase one, for production of enzymes I could only find one supplement Alpha-lipoic acid. ``Because of the sulfur groups in the molecule, it also has the ability to bind with mercury in the cells and help move it out of the body.''
For phase two: glutathione level, you want these levels to be normal high. Well cystine is required for glutathione production and guess what cystine comes mostly from raw eggs, milk and cheese. These are products people on abx do not eat or should not eat because of yeast. What a tragedy this is, since glutathione is required to detoxify the body from all kinds of toxins including antibiotics, PCBs and lots of other sutff.
The other good source of cystine is goat whey protein. This is 100% natural way of boosting glutathione levels.

Other supplements: Vitamin E and Selenium. Selenium is needed to properly produce the enzyme glutathione peroxidase, essential to eliminating mercury from the brain.
Going back to DMPS. Read this from (http://www.y2khealthanddetox.com/mercdetox.html)
DMPS These chelators work based on the content of sulfur and hydrogen molecules (thiols) which bind readily to the mercury. The problem seems to be that the man-made arrangement of molecules seems to be very hard for the human system to tolerate. DMPS is a combination of propane, sulfonic acid (therefore acts like a sulfa drug) and thiols. Both propane and sulfonic acid are difficult for us to metabolize. Therefore allergic reactions, autoimmune responses and mercury redistribution are of great concern.
Mercury redistribution throughout the body is probably the most serious part of this and responsible for organ damage we have seen.
The reason it occurs, is that once a patient has ingested a chemical chelator, a large amount is pulled from the cells. This "blast" goes via the bloodstream to the liver; the chelator and proteins attached to the mercury are broken down and excreted with bile into the upper part of the small intestine. Freed methyl mercury is rapidly re-absorbed into the system via the intestines and then deposited all over the body, often in very dangerous places, i.e. the brain, nervous system, essential organs such as the thyroid, etc. This bile process is not 100% efficient, so some is excreted via the feces and urine, but not as much as we would like. THIS IS WHY YOU NEED CHLORELLA or SOME OTHER AGENT[jantar]
The above paragraph stresses the need for tolerance testing of this agent. I would like all of you to be aware of this fact, before you venture to some doctors office.
The other synthetic agent is DMSA.
``DMSA is not sulfa drug like. The base is succinic acid. It is only taken orally and is the only chemical chelator that can cross the blood brain barrier to take mercury out of the brain.
Again, though, test it out with a small dose. Then if the patient decides they want to take it, I recommend starting very slowly (50 mg per day) one week on, one week off. Because normal, needed minerals are chelated out with the mercury (manganese, zinc, magnesium, etc) I have them do a week off, and replenish heavily the mineral. This seems to keep them from getting sick.''
Opinions are split about ability of DMSA to cross Brain barrier. Again, supplements outlined for DMPS have the same place here.
Whenever one plays with DMSA or DMPS one has to realize that mercury can be quickly reabsorbed in our guts if not bound to say sulfur deposited from eating a lot of cabbage, broccoli or chlorella. Chlorella has very high affinity to mercury therefore it is perfect means to transport mercury out of our body.

What about the brain. Well, again dr. Klinghard recommends cilantro, if you can tolerate it in liquid form. If you cannot tolerate it in liquid form then try to eat with your food. You should be fine. I would however not attempt to do it until at least a month on chlorella, to move at least some mercury out of your body and clean up the guts. Regular bowel movements are of the essence here. I advise everyone to go to
1)http://www.neuraltherapy.com (GiGi's favorite).
2)Cilantro preparation http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/detox/cilantro.htm
What do I think about NDF, Metal-Free and PCA-Rx. I think, they are overpriced. The same can be achieved with chlorella and Cilantro. Dr. Klinghard states that cilantro works better (according to his protocol) and it is cheaper.
What will I do?
1) I will take a test without any challenge.
2) Support the liver as much as I can.
3) Support the kidney as much as I can.
4) Supplement with Selenium up to 200 micro grams a day. Careful, 400 micro grams a day is toxic to a human.
5) Take glutathione precursors.
6) Supplement Goat's whey protein.
7) Take chlorella.
8) I will supplement trace minerals along with main minerals.
9) After a month on chlorella take cilantro (according to Dr. Klinghard protocol from his website). On the third day after I start cilantro I will take another heavy metal test (no challenge) to determine if mercury is leaving my body. I will stop taking minerals 1 week before the test.
If mercury is leaving my body I will see increased level of mercury on the second test.
If I do not see any increase I will go and see dr. Klinghard.
If I see increased level of mercury I will continue this for 1 year repeating the test every 3 months.
After one year I may attempt another test with challenge (DMPS I already tested positive for this agent through muscle testing).
In summary, what I outlined as my plan, I consider very safe, providing liver and kidney work fine. This protocol should not give me any problems and I should not feel worse. The means I will use are just supplements and they have good history of safety.
I stress again, if I lived on the west coast I would go to see Dr. Klinghard, but since I do not live there and I have problems finding a good doctor on the east coast I would rather come up with my own solution than risk having problems, because I trusted the wrong doctor.
All information I provided is for you to think over. I do think, that it is important to get rid of heavy metals and before we embrace heavy-duty methods to get rid off heavy metals we need to give our bodies a chance. This is just my thinking. I was really surprised to see how little interest in heavy metal detox my post created. I thought, there was more people here trying hard to beat this illness. Sorry, for this hard stand, I do think, that cleaning our body is the only way out of this illness.
Why did I post all of this, for one reason? People should read and educate themselves before seeing any doctor about heavy metal detoxification. This is my most important concern. I have talked to doctors who were all ready to give me DMPS challenge test when my mouth was full of mercury. It did not seem to be right so I refused. Little did I know how smart I was.
There are many doctors out there ready to rx you DMSA or give you a shot of DMPS without doing the response test or trying a very small dosage to check for allergy or for that matter even asking you if you are not constipated. In my mind doctors who do detoxification should be specialized like neurologist or cardiologists. We do not have such a especially this only shows you how little our modern science cares about this issue. This is too bad because almost 50 years ago doctor Bernard Jensen saved many people from death by cleaning their guts through frequent enemas and supplements that bind toxins in the guts, plus some that tell body to dump toxins.
Be careful and be happy good health is on the way.
One more thing, I would like to express my view on abx treatment. I think, abx are very important, but if you stop them and relapse it means you have some work to do. Staying on abx too long is not good, but if your body does not take over it means that there is something more wrong with it, most probably toxicity. Toxicity depresses immune system. I had an immune system test done at AAL and it came with a comment that low-level toxicity (like petroleum) might be the cause for some lower values. Later I had some muscle testing done and I was high on fumes, what a coincident!

I would start with salt (GiGi recommended this to me)

RealSalt (www.realsalt.com) - this salt contains a lot of trace minerals.

Then trace minerals in liquid form:
b. http://www.traceminerals.com/products/drops.html
I do not use this form. I buy mineral water from Germany called Apollinaris. It is cheap on the east coast. The above minerals would do. If I were you I would buy it and get them tested locally for heavy metals, just to be sure. You may also ask producer for test performed by independent labs.

d. Goat's Whey (www.mtcapra.com) - this contains Glutathione precursors.

Well, I wish you lots of luck. Just remember to go very slow, your body needs to remove lyme toxins so you do not want to go fast.

Cilantro does not "move" metals when used raw/cold. It is cilantro's volatile oils that have been found through studies in Japan and Germany to release heavy metals from their stored sites throughout the body and prepare them for removal. So the cilantro is best used in the form of a tincture. One of the ways that it does some of its work is heat - take a handful (of organic cilantro) and toss it into chicken soup. Heat brings out its effects. This is exactly the way the discoverer of cilantro for metal removal stumbled upon this herb as a remedy.

I didn't want to eat that much chicken soup ---- get's pretty boring if you have to apply it several times a day! We use Dragon River Herbals' Cilantro tincture derived from fresh leaf extract following strict guidelines regarding growing, harvesting, and manufacturing as established by Dr. K. Made from organically certified cilantro. The main constituents of the volatile oils are myrcene, d-linalool, citronellol, geraniol, safrole, a-terpinyl acetate and geranyl acetate.

It is only used by number of drops depending on the level of toxicity and general body conditions and only some time a f t e r removal of amalgam fillings when your doctor gives you the okay. It is now also recognized as being effective by rubbing a certain number of drops into wrists (when major problems are above waist) or ankles (if problems are in lower body). Learning the drug-uptake technique helps, but I don't want to get into that here. Your doctor should advise you.

It is also recommended that you take breaks at certain intervals. I do not take any remedy or supplement continually - don't want to turn the body against it (which it often does!)

You can see that if this tincture is used by 2-3-4-5- or more drops that it is wise to follow a doctor's or practitioner's advice.
Believe me, it does mobilize certain metals and therefore you need to use it judiciously.

It doesn't cost a lot and does not taste bad at all!

Having lived with heavy metals for years and having suffered plenty because of it, I followed the best doctor in the world who has proven himself as the best heavy metal detox person, as well as being a doctor who won't take no for an answer and who will come up with a solution to the problem, even if it takes a few years. Don't underestimate heavy metal detoxing - it is very, very tricky. Some people hang on to their metals and won't let go, which challenges a doctor even more. So there is more to it than meets the eye if one wants to do it right. I don't have time time debating these issues - you are welcome to do anything you want.

I am making an effort to pass on to all of you what has helped me get well --
I am constantly in touch with my doctor, I work with some of his patients; I attend most his lectures/courses for MD's, dentists, practitioners, etc., here and abroad - so I think I have figured out what works and what doesn't. 6000 practitioners in Europe are using cilantro tincture as one of the agents to remove certain heavy metals. I am not a chemist nor a herbalist and don't know the finer details of preparation of the tincture as it is used. Sorry.

I could have easily walked away from this board, though I had promised myself several years ago when I was deadly ill, that if I had another chance at life, I would pass on what I have learned. This is the only reason I am here talking with you. And of course I am learning even more by being here.

Jantar, you have learned so much - I am glad for you.

P.S. You might want to check into the absorption of minerals via mineral water. They are not in ionic form and make it into the blood, but not into the cells --- that's what I have learned over the years. Yes, the mineral water industry has quite a thing going! You might want to research it a bit -

I am so glad I ran into this discussion on heavy metal toxicity on a "Lyme" site - I happen to be afflicted with both. I was diagnosed with mercury toxicity a couple of years back and got a positive PCR for Lyme three months back.
Have had neurological symptoms since 1998. Do not know if that is when I was infected by Lyme though - Do not remember any tick bites.
The problem is that both Mercury toxicity and Lyme can have similar symptoms.

I have not yet started treatment for either. Was about to start with my amalgam removal and then called it off because I got a positive PCR for Lyme. Now I have decided to treat the Lyme first for a few months before I start amalgam removal and chelation.
Do not know if that is the right way to go though!!!
Any experience you all have had that I can learn from in this context would be fantastic!
The question really is which do I start treating first - the lyme or the amalgam removal and chelation.
I have been told that the treating the Lyme first may not be successful because the Mercury interferes with the immune system. Meaning that the antibiotics will keep the Lyme in check but once I go off them my immune system because of the mercury will not be able to take over and keep my body squeaky clean - hence will not be truly free of the Lyme.

On the other hand if IU start with the amalgam removal and chelation and then start with Lyme treatment after that would that cause me more problems because of leaving the Lyme untreated for a few months.
Also what if my symptoms are because of the Lyme and not the heavy metals?

Has anyone tried treating both conditions simultaneously?

Would appreciate any feedback on this.
Thanks
RG

quote:

---

Originally posted by jantar:
Hi to all of you,

Thanks to GiGi who helped me find a ``whole body dentist'' in CT I am mercury free, or maybe my teeth are I should say.

I have read a lot about mercury tests and mercury detox and concluded that it is a tricky process and needs to be done by an expert. Too bad I am on the east coast. The best doc is on the west coast. I need to find a second best there is and he better be on the east coast.

Anyway, there are a lot of ways to do the detox. I would like you to bring up your own experiences of testing for heavy metals and then detox. I hope, many people would read this thread and learn about different approaches and possibly red flags they should be aware of. My intention is to make sure that if someone starts the process she/he does it right and does not get worse.

I would like to gather experiences from as many people as possible on their heavy metal testing and detox. Please, be as descriptive as you can be. Let's discuss the subject until there is no stone unturned.

I have done a lot of research about influence of heavy metals and other toxic agents on immune system and I am convinced I have heavy metals and I am convinced they support Lyme. I think, the most important factor in getting well is to clean up the body so the immune system can start working. I believe, that some people can get lucky and abx alone will clear lyme, especially the once with good microcirculation to bring abx to every cell of their body. I may as well belong to that group, but I do not want to leave my recovery to a chance. I am sure that once I clean up my body I get better than ever before.

I hope that for all of you who wonder what is involved in the process this thread will serve as a primer.

I do not think that detox is just getting a shot or swallowing pills. If one goes that way one has a great chance of being an example on the website http://www.dmpsbackfire.com/default.shtml

Believe me, you do not want that.

I hope this thread will take off, thank you to all of you for contribution.

---

My husband and I recently had our testing done through our LLMD at Doctors Data. Both of us were super high on Arsenic and Mercury.

My LLMD said that my arsenic level was the highest he had seen, over 6 times the reference range.

We live in the Granite state which makes me think that we are being exposed naturally through either the water, the air or both.

In any event, I am getting ready to start detox with DMSA. I'm just waiting for my pharmacist to compound it up.

My husband is supposed to start with Depen, also known as cuprimine and penicillamine. He still has mercury in his mouth so I told him he shouldn't start until he gets those out.

I got mine out a few months ago.

I'm curious about the Depen since I don't see it mentioned here. Anyone have any info on it that we can be aware of?

Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge here. And Jantar, my LLMD in Hyde Park NY is really getting into metal detox. Just in the last 6 months his eyes have been opened and he is recommending testing for everyone.

He is convinced that those who after years of treatment for Lyme and still having trouble are really dealing with heavy metal toxicity.

He had some great examples of people who could not walk on their own, walking after a couple of days of detox. Very amazing.

Thanks again, I need to hit the hay.

This is the best thing I have heard! I don't know who the Hyde Park doctor is, but it's a big step forward --- because a heavy metal/chemical body just won't heal until you unload it ----- then you have a chance at Lyme. Now the challenge is that the detox is done properly!

It seems logical to go after the amalgam removal and detox first but that would mean putting off the Lyme treatment by a few months - thats the part I am not sure off! Is it ok to leave the Lyme untreated for another few months given that it can have dangerous consequences? BTW I have 5 amalgams. Am in the NE just outside of Philly.

Based on your response it seems that Gigi had been diagnosed with both afflictions - just to clarify did she go ahead with the detox first followed by the Lyme treatment or did she tackle them both simultaneously?
Do you know if hers was a case of Chronic Lyme?

When you started ABx in JAn did you have a case of Chronic lyme or were you recently infected?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks again for all your help!

RG

I have both afflictions but knew about the lyme first. I have chronic lyme and am addressing that and the metal detox at the same time. If you want to address the metals first and you've had lyme for a long time, I don't think a few months would make that much difference. IMHO.

could you please post some more information like:
1) When you did the test did you use something for challenge like DMPS or DMSA or nothing.
2) What protocol are you going to be on? How much for how long...

I am asking you these questions so people will ready in the future and see what is reasonable. I think, you may have a good doctor so the info could be even more valuable.

That question is easily answered when you have a doctor that can do muscle testing. (I don't mean 'department store muscle testing'). If the body reveals mostly the problems of heavy metals when you see him, he will decide to treat the metals. By muscle testing, the body reveals what is on the forefront. He can also decide which agent works best for you at this particular time to detox you. It depends where the metals are. It's I am sure you have heard -- like peeling an onion. The chances of abx or other remedies bringing results are much enhanced. A body loaded with toxins such as heavy metals and chemicals has little chance of a quick recovery or, for that matter, slow recovery, from Lyme via abx.

It has been found that many illnesses develop, not because of heredity or such things, but through high levels of heavy metals. These metals interfere with proper bodily function, such as the immune system, to the extent that diseases are allowed to foster and grow within our bodies. Many people are exposed to ticks and seem not to "succumb" to Lyme & Co. as many of us do. My doctor explains it as "contaminated body terrain" - lyme bacteria, viruses, parasites, microorganisms love to live and thrive in that surrounding.

If anybody has amalgam fillings that are the contributor, why wait until more damage is done via the fillings? If the source of the metals comes from a different exposure, that needs to be found out and hopefully eliminated. Root canals need to be tested (TOPAS test. [email protected]) to see how much dental toxin they contribute every day as long as they are in the mouth. Cavitations (left over infectious material from pulled teeth, pulled wisdom teeth, or infected teeth) need to be addressed, in other words, the breeding ground for the Lyme bacteria, etc. has to be eliminated. Oftentimes the patient has no idea that he has a lingering infection in the mouth. They don't hurt, and unless a dentist knows how to look for cavitations, etc., you will never know why you can't seem to get better.

Almost everyone in America has been or is now heavy metal toxic. The sources are all around us. If you don't know what to avoid, you probably are exposing yourself all the time. The agents to be used for detox are different depending on where the metals are located in your body. Brain or gut? Or?

It's worthwhile to find a "biological dentist". Ask people at a good health food store, ask your naturopath or alternative doctor. The good ones don't need and won't hang out a shingle - just like LLMD's won't, because they want to stay in practice.

In short: I agree with Lyma Bean - if you haven't been able to lick chronic lyme with abx, you won't gain much by just continuing in the same manner -- if you know that you have a heavy metals/chemical problem.

You also don't want to add more of a burden to your organs by doing abx and fixing teeth, detoxing, etc. all at the same time.
A body can only tolerate so much. It is wise to find a doctor/dentist who knows how.
As I have said many times before, heavy metal detox is not something you do by the seat of your pants. It is stressful and it needs to be supervised by someone who has done it many times before.

If done right, you will get well.

I am as fit as a fiddle - I was practically dead a few years ago.

If you want to know more, I would suggest you read some of my posts, most all of them pertaining to heavy metal toxicity and other such things.

Good luck.

I would definitely listen to GiGi, she knows her stuff . Of course everyone is different, that being said, this is what's working for me. I am seeing an alternative doc, as well as my LLMD. I am currently taking a natural antibiotic so I'm not really having any gut problems. I take 6 chlorella capsules before breakfast and 6 before supper. I take 300 mg DMSA every third night for 20 doses.

I had most of my amalgams removed while on traditional abx. The remaining four were removed while on the natural abx. I started the chlorella a couple of days before the last removal and did not add the DSMA until 6 or 8 weeks later.

I haven't really experienced any problems doing it this way. I see my alternative doc in a couple of weeks, so we'll see where we go from here.

Hope this helps

Good Luck and Take Care...Terri

We have a dentist to do the amalgam removal properly and then the MD wants to immediately give him an IV of Vit. C - noticed that no one seems to be mentioning Vit. C as part of the de-tox process.

Any thoughts on this? He's already taking glutathion and CoQ10 as well as other nutritional supplements.

I have talked about Prof. Haley of Univ of Kentucky for at least two years on this board. I have also told you about his fabulous TOPAS test that will tell you if your root canal is good for you or whether it's slowly killing you.

Read what his years of research into heavy metals has brought forth - read his testimony to the Government.

If you want to really, really get well, take a good look into your mouth. I hate to say it, but you will not be able to overcome Lyme as long as you have a toxic mouth and heavy metals in your body.

Please study that site that Cave76 gave you.

I just want to mention to this list that Gigi is right, any chelator can be harmful to a person, and needs to be tested. 50 mg of DMSA is not small. It made me sick and damaged my kidneys. I had kidney discomfort for many months after one dose. I coiuld no longer tolerate high dose Vitamin C drips either--and the kidneys have to process that. I then researched it and saw that in some cases when people are mercury toxic they have to start with 5 mg of DMSA> But I never wanted to try it again, it seemed too dangerous.

I am going to look at Dragon River Herbals. When I use cilantro I do use it raw--although I too am confused by the idea the volatile oils wouldn't be in the raw. I juice it. I know juicing it made Bryan (skyking) mobilize too much mercury.

You mentioned that 50mg of DMSA made you sick.

I'm supposed to be starting with 500mg 3x per day for 3 days on and 11 days off then repeat.

I am very high on the mercury and arsenic.

I'm wondering if anyone else experienced what you did or if you know anything more about it that I don't.

One thing I do know is that there are 2 different kinds of DMSA. My pharmacist who is doing the compounding asked me to differentiate between the 2 so she could order the right stuff.

They both start with "Dimercapto______ acid.
In my case I forget what the first one was but clarified that it is Dimercaptosuccinic acid.

On a side note, these are costing me $7 per capsule. Anyone else have prices on how much it's costing them for comparison?

Here is a wonderful inexpensive way to get some of the die-off toxins and any other toxins out of the system:

It's called Dr. Karack's Oil Therapy --

Procedure:

1. In the morning before breakfast, on an empty stomach, take l tablespoon of cold pressed sunflower oil in the mouth, but do not swallow. Swish the oil around the mouth, "chew it" (Mayr cure) and mix it with your saliva for 10-20 minutes. Then spit it into the toilet bowl.

Chewing activates the enzymes which draw toxins out of the blood. And in 10-15 minutes, the blood from the entire body has had the opportunity to circulate through and around the mouth. After 10-20 minutes, the oil should be thinner and white. If it is still yellow, you have not held it in your mouth long enough. (10 minutes the first week is usually sufficient; then increase to 15-20 minutes as you get clearer.)

2. Immediately brush your gums, teeth and tongue with warm salt/soda water - one cup water to 1/2 tsp salt and 1/2 tsp soda; or with food-grade hydrogen peroxide diluted in water. Then gargle and spit with the remaining salt/soda water. It is also helpful to tip the cup under the nose and gently sniff up the water to clean the nasal passages. Then gently blow the nose.

The sink should be cleaned afterward, because the saliva contains harmful bacteria and toxic bodily waste.

3. Repeat this procedure two to three times a day, before meals, on an empty stomach. Continue this procedure until you are healthy! (few weeks to years....)

This procedure has been helpful to curative in almost every disease or dysfunctional immune state that Dr. Karack has encountered. We have found the same amazing results, especially in patients whore are detoxing their petroleum solvents. Remember that petroleum solvents are lipophilic and will readily be absorbed into the oil. Additionally, the toxic metals/minerals form soap complexes with the oil and can then be easily eliminated through spitting.

This oil technique has also had a major effect on chronic, severely toxic patients. Although neural therapy is excellent for mild to moderate toxic tonsil focus, severely damaged tonsils can often be saved from surgery with the addition of Dr. Karack's technique. And since the tonsils are the first filtering system in the body for orally ingested toxins, this treatment helps boost everyone's iimmune system functioning through increased lymphatic cleansing of that area. Remember, too, that even if you have had a tonsillectomy, the lymphatics in the tonsil area are still trying to function as a filter and neutralize ingested toxins and manufactured microbes in the oral cavity.

This Oil Therapy is out of my doctor's box of "Pearls". Try it: Once you see the oil change consistency after being "worked over" in your mouth for a few minutes, you will realize how much toxin you are eliminating in a few minutes.

(Best is Sunflower oil by Omega Nutrition. Sesame Oil only needs to be held in mouth 3 minutes and is also very good.)

Hope this helps some of you.

There may be two different DMSA's, but I have never heard of it. Maybe it is being confused with DMPS, which is also a heavy metal detox agents. DMPS = Sodium 2, 3-dimercaptopropane-1-sulfonate; DMSA = meso-2, 3-dimercaptosuccinic acid).

Here is some of my doctor's discussion of the various agents used, explaining DMPS and DMSA. I was one of those that could not take DMSA - I tested negative via muscle testing and therefore it was never given to me. Thank God for muscle testing. I did DMPS a few times, the rest of the detox took in many other different agents. You can find the total protocol on mercola.com. It is, however, now already a few years old, and things in detoxing change very often as new agents are found to work better, etc. etc. The learning has not ended yet when it comes to detoxing metals. My doctor has been doing it for almost 20 years and I trust his judgement. After all, I am still alive also, yet was very, very ill.

Please also note that as a rule DMSA is only used late in the mercury elimination process!!

DMPS (Sodium 2,3-dimercaptopropane-1-sulfonate) is an acid-molecule with two free sulfhydryl groups that forms complexes with heavy metals such as zinc, copper, arsenic, mercury, cadmium, lead, silver, and tin. DMPS was developed in the 1950s in the former Soviet Union and has been used to effectively treat metal intoxication since the 1960s there.62 It is a water-soluble complexing agent.

Because it had potential use as an antidote for the chemical warfare agent, Lewisite, it was not available outside of the Soviet Union until 1978, at which time Heyl, a small pharmaceutical company in Berlin, Germany started to produce it. It has an abundance of international research data and an excellent safety record in removing mercury from the body63 and has been used safely in Europe as Dimaval for many years.64 65 66 67

DMPS is registered in Germany with the BGA (their FDA) for the treatment of mercury poisoning but is still an investigational drug in the United States.68

The best and only brand of DMPS that should be used is Heyl from Germany. Great care should also be exercised in making certain the DMPS is compounded properly from the pharmacist. If the DMPS contacts metal during it will be oxidized, so the compounding pharmacist must use nonmetal needles must be used in preparing the product.

DMPS Can Be Used To Eliminate Mercury Systemically

The use of DMPS to treat mercury toxicity is well established and accepted. 69 70 71 DMPS has clearly demonstrated elimination effects on the connective tissue.72 73 The DMPS dose is 3-5 mg /kg of body weight once a month which is injected slowly intravenously over five minutes. DMPS-stimulated excretion of all heavy metals reaches a maximum 2-3 hours after infusion and decreases thereafter to return to baseline levels after 8 hours.74

DMPS Safety

DMPS is not mutagenic, teratogenic or carcinogenic.75 Ideally intravenous DMPS should never be used in patients that still have amalgam fillings in place, although investigators have done this as diagnostically, as a one-time dose, without complications.76 DMPS appears in the saliva and may mobilize significant amounts of mercury from the surface of the fillings and precipitate seizures, cardiac arrhythmias, or severe fatigue.

One should use DMPS with great caution and NEVER use it in patients with amalgam fillings. Ideally DMPS should be administered after 25 grams of ascorbic acid administered intravenously. This will minimize any potential toxicity from the DMPS.

Even though DMPS has a high affinity for mercury, the highest affinity appears to be for copper and zinc77 and supplementation needs to be used to not avoid depleting these beneficial minerals. Zinc is particularly important when undergoing mercury chelation.78 DMPS is administered over a five-minute period since hypotensive effects are possible when given intravenously as a bolus.79 80 Other possible side effects include allergic reactions and skin rashes.

DMSA

DMSA (meso-2, 3-dimercaptosucccinic acid) is another mercury chelating agent. It is the only chelating agent other than cilantro and d-penicillamine81 that penetrates brain cells. DMSA removes mercury both via the kidneys and via the bile.82 The sulfhydryl groups in both DMPS and DMSA bind very tightly to mercury.

DMSA has three distinct disadvantages relative to DMPS.

First, DMPS appears to remain in the body for a longer time than DMSA.83

Secondly, DMPS acts more quickly than DMSA, probably because its distribution is both intracellular and extracellular.84

Thirdly, preparations of DMPS are available for intravenous or intramuscular use, while DMSA is available only in oral form.85 Since succinic acid is used in the citric acid cycle inside the cell, DMSA has been suspected for displacing mercury towards the inside of the cell86 after binding mercury somewhere on its way from the intestine to the succinic acid deficient cell.

We propose therefore that DMSA be used late in the mercury elimination process, after the connective tissue mercury load has been reduced with DMPS. The standard dose of DMSA is 5-10 mg/kg twice a day for two weeks. The DMSA is then stopped for two weeks and then the cycle is repeated.

Here is a nice write-up from the royalrife site that I think I recommended to you before:
http://www.royalrife.com/pH.html

THE PH PROBLEM -----

It is thought by many that everyone has a never ending
problem with acidity in their systems and that this is the main
cause of disease. We must continually combat this problem by
eating an "alkaline ash" diet, we are told. It is also thought
by many that the urine pH is an accurate indicator of the pH of
body fluids.

Alas, the situation is a bit more complicated than that.
Those of us who do metabolic balancing are aware that many of our
sickest people have body fluids that are very alkaline, and that
respiratory rate and breath holding ability are key indicators of
the pH of body fluids. A person with an acid imbalance will
generally have a resting respiratory rate of 19 or more and if
they take a deep breath will only be able to hold it for 40
seconds or less. Why? Because carbon dioxide is used by the
body to regulate pH. If the body is acid, the brain tells the
body to breathe faster to get rid of the acidic carbon dioxide.
The same principle applies to breath hold. The brain says
"breathe!" The urine pH may be acid. But if the acidosis is
caused by excess potassium in the system, the kidneys will dump
potassium and retain hydrogen. (Ain't evolution clever. If you
believe that...) So the urine is alkaline while the body fluids
are acid.

Alkalosis is the opposite. A person with alkalosis will
generally have a respiratory rate of 13 or slower and a breath
hold of 65 seconds or more. Urine pH is generally alkaline,
except in potassium depletion alkalosis. In that case, the body
retains potassium, and dumps hydrogen (acid), often making the
urine acid while body fluids are alkaline.

Causes? Well, there is a metabolic acidosis and alkalosis,
a respiratory acidosis and alkalosis, and pH problems caused by
potassium imbalances as mentioned above.

There is also an acidosis caused by a glucogenic or fast
oxidizer imbalance. Fast oxidation produces excess carbon
dioxide and thus alkalosis. Slow oxidizers are the opposite.

Then there are the anabolic/anaerobic and
catabolic/dysaerobic imbalances. The anaerobic person generally
has alkaline urine, high urine surface tension and acid saliva
among other signs. Body fluids are alkaline and painful or
diseased areas are acid. The body tends to use insufficient
oxygen in metabolism so that instead of making carbon dioxide and
water from glucose, the cells make lactic acid. Dr. Otto Warburg
won the Nobel Prize for proving that cancer is an anaerobic
tissue.

The dysaerobic person generally has acid urine, low urine
surface tension, and alkaline saliva. Body fluids are acid, and
painful or diseased areas are alkaline. Huge amounts of free
radicals are generated by their metabolic processes.

Treatment? For an introduction to this, see the section on
Metabolic Imbalances.

Take care.

WASHINGTON, DC (ENS) -- Rain falling over 12 eastern states has been found to contain high levels of mercury that exceed federal safe standards for people and wildlife, according to a new National Wildlife Federation report.

The paper, titled "Cycle of Harm: Mercury's Pathway from Rain to Fish in the Environment," found that mercury contamination levels in rain and snow falling over Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Texas consistently exceeded the Environmental Protection Agency's safe standards for mercury in surface water.

"We usually think of rain as pure and clean," said Mark Van Putten, president of the National Wildlife Federation. "But this report reveals that the rain falling over these states contains ominous levels of mercury and threatens the health of people and wildlife."

Mercury attacks the brain and nervous system and can be dangerous to sport fishermen, subsistence anglers, Native Americans and anyone who eats freshwater fish. Health officials in 44 states have issued advisories warning people to restrict or entirely avoid eating fish caught in thousands of inland lakes and streams.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, one in 12 women of childbearing age has blood mercury levels that exceed the federal safe level for protection of the fetus. This translates into approximately 320,000 babies born annually in the United States at risk for neuro developmental delays.

In wildlife, mercury inhibits reproduction among species such as rainbow trout, zebra fish, mallard and American black ducks, loons and terns, otters and mink.

Air pollution is considered the major cause of mercury in lakes and streams. Eighty five percent of all mercury pollution is created by coal fired power plants and municipal medical waste incinerators that send mercury into the air, where it falls back to Earth as rain or snow, according to the Mercury Policy Project, a nongovernmental organization formed in 1998 to raise awareness about the threat of mercury contamination.

In addition to calling for nationwide controls on mercury emissions from coal fired power plants and the elimination of mercury in products and manufacturing, the report recommends specific actions each state can take to safeguard the health of people and wildlife.

To read the full report, visit: http://www.nwf.org.

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That sounds like a lot! I'm taking 300 mg every 3 days. Were you muscle tested or did your doc use kinesiology testing? I'm not sure of the cost, as it's covered by my insurance.

Regarding this secret Russian remedy for toxicity -- does it really matter if its sunflower or sesame oil, or any other kind of oil for that matter? For health reasons, I would tend to go for the cold pressed extra virgin olive oil. Yes, I know you're not supposed to swallow it, but let's face it, some is going to get into the system no matter how hard you try, keeping that stuff in your mouth for 15 minutes!