my 4 year old and husband both have it and we never saw a tick on them (I had both a bite and rash)

does that mean we all passed it around or is it exposure since we live in a highly endemic area and visit Cape Cod once a month to see grandparents?

Better safe than sorry I would use something :-) *grin* until you get this all sorted out..

My hopes that your wife is healthy and has not been exposed to Lyme.

Perhaps it is something like AIDS where males can transmit the disease to females much more easily than females to males.

If you are uncertain, have your wife checked and use protection. I am not a Dr. and do not have anything but anecdotal information and am not advising you one way or another.

quote:

---

Originally posted by linus922:
I've had Lyme for over 5 years, have had unprotected sex with my husband during that whole time and he does not exhibit any symptoms.

Perhaps it is something like AIDS where males can transmit the disease to females much more easily than females to males.

If you are uncertain, have your wife checked and use protection. I am not a Dr. and do not have anything but anecdotal information and am not advising you one way or another.

Linus

---

Treepatrol,

In 2002, theres been posts of studies on this.

I think the male to female transmission rate is also higher because of the amount of bodily fluids exchanged is greater with females receiving fluids. That wording made no sense, but I think you know what I mean.

OBJECTIVE
Lyme disease, being a spirochete with pathology similar to syphilis, is often found
difficult to treat due to the spirochete invading sanctuary sites and displaying
pleomorphic characteristics such as a cyst (L-form). Because a significant portion of
sexually active couples present to my office with Lyme disease, with only one
partner having a history of tick exposure, the question of possible secondary
(sexual)vector of transmission for the spirochete warrents inquiriy.

Additionally,
sexually active couples seem to have a marked propensity for antibiotic failure
raising the question of sexually active couples re-infecting themselves through
intimate contact.

METHODS: Lyme spirochetes/DNA have been recovered from stored animal
semen. Recovery of spirochete DNA from nursing mother's breast milk and unbilical
cord blood by PCR (confirmed by culture/microscopy), have been found in samples
provided to my office.

RESULTS: Suprisingly, initial laboratory testing of semen samples provided by
male Lyme patients (positive by western blot/PCR in blood) and the male sexual
partner of a Lyme infected female patient were positive approximately 40% of the
time. PCR recovery of Lyme DNA nucleotide sequences with microscopic
confirmation of semen samples yielded positive results in 14/32 Lyme patients (13
male semen samples and 1 vaginal pap).

ALL positive semen/vaginal samples in
patients with known sexual partners resulted in positive Lyme titers/PCR in their
sexual partners. 3/4 positive semen patients had no or unknown sexual partners to
be tested. These preliminary findings warrent futher study. Current a statistical
design study to evaluate the possibility of sexual transition of the spirochete is
being undertaken.

Our laboratory studies confirm the existence of Lyme spirochetes
in semen/vaginal secretions. Whether or not further clinical studies with a larger
statistical group will support the hypothesis of sexual transmission remains to be
seen. A retrospective clinical study is also underway.

We are reviewing the medical
records, collecting semen samples of patients who were previously diagnosed with
current and previously treated Lyme disease are bing asked to provide semen,pap
and blood samples for extensive laboratory testing.

CONCLUSION: With the initially impressive data, we feel the subsequent
statistical sudy on the sexual transmission of the Lyme spirochete will illuminate a
much broader sectrum of public health concerns associated with the disease than
the originally accepted tick borne vector.

Sexual transmission..

See Military on Lyme Disease section..
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Oasis/6455/lyme-links-misc.html

Or go directly to link:

http://cassia.org/library/Jama_May15,1996_mednews&perspect.htm

Spring Brings Tick Threat to Peace Enforcers JAMA, May15,1996, Medical News &
Perspective

Comments from Website author: JAMA writes here of a caution for troops in
Bosnia-Herzegovina (which I believe also extends to the Mid-East region) that tick-borne
disease is a danger. They caution that the same risks are additionally associated with
mosquitoes, sand flies, fleas, mites, biting flies, and lice. "Desert Storm
Syndrome" parallels one characteristic of Lyme in that this spirochetal
infection also can be sexually transmitted to spouse.

AS THE HALFWAY point approaches in the year-long North Atlantic Treaty
Organization (NATO) peace-enforcement effort in Bosnia-Herzegovina, military are
putting more physicians emphasis than ever on keeping US troops healthy.
US Army, Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps personnel in the former Yugoslavia are
carrying laminated plastic cards reminding them of the diseases that can be transmitted
via various vectors there, particularly ticks (JAMA. 1994;272:337-340 and p 1470 in this
issue). With the arrival of warmer weather, ticks are expected to be a problem until as
late as November.

Although there is talk of a few troops staying longer, November and early December are
when US forces are supposed to withdraw (JAMA. 1996;275:24). President Clinton made
a public pledge to extract US troops within a year of the December 20, 1995, date when
NATO assumed peace-enforcement duties from the United Nations, meaning that
pull-out planning could begin as early as next month.

In the meantime, US Military physicians are concerned about tick-born encephalitis and
Lyme Disease, for which Ixodes ricinus is the primary vector; Crimean-Congo
hemorrhagic fever, for which Hyalomma marginatum marginatum is the primary vector,
and perhaps boutonneuse fever rickettsiosis or Bhanja virus fever, also transmitted by the
bite of an infective tick.

Troops are being urged to tuck their trousers in their boots and otherwise cover their skin
when in tick-infested areas, use tick repellent, check frequently for the presence of ticks
on clothing or skin, and to remove ticks carefully, seeking medical assistance if possible
and applying an antiseptic to the bite site.

What?s more, US troops are reminded that mosquitoes, sand flies, fleas, mites, biting
flies and lice may also present a disease threat in specific locations. Use of
repellents and "maintaining good personal hygiene" are urged.

In addition, there is the potential for hantavirus (Bunyaviridae family) infection, a cause
of hemorrhagic fever or respiratory problems, and thought to result from direct contact
with, or inhaling, dust contaminated by infected rodents' excretions. Thus, rats, mice,
squirrels, voles, and other rodents also are a concern for the military in the Balkans
(JAMA. 1996;275:422 and Lancet. 1996;347:30), and troops are being cautioned to
"mist" or lightly spray previously unoccupied areas to avoid dust inhalation before
mopping or sweeping preparatory to moving in.
Removing trash and sources of water, sealing tiny wall openings, and using repellents can
reduce the chance of disease transmission from rodents, the troops are advised. They are
told to seek immediate medical assistance if bitten or scratched by a rodent.

The US Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine, Aberdeen (Md)
Proving Ground, has been working on these and other health-precaution efforts. As
always, American GIs have their own name for the laminated materials, calling them
"tick cards."

So far, there has been no major increase in illness or injury among US troops
participating in the peace-enforcement effort. John G. Jernigan, MD, the US Air Force
brigadier general-designee who is command surgeon, Air Mobility Command, Scott Air
Force Base, Ill, says that, to date, there has been no increase in demand for aeromedical
evacuation above that normally required to support US troop activity in Europe other
than Bosnia-Herzegovina.

--by Phil Gunby

http://www.centurytel.net/tjs11/bug/l13.htm

All the other clinicians with whom the authors spoke agreed that Lyme has reached
epidemic proportions. How is this possible? Obviously 25% of Americans haven't been
bitten by one of a select few species of ticks. The answer is that Lyme is not transmitted
just by ticks.

"Of the more than 5,000 children I've treated, 240 have been born with the disease," says
Dr. Jones, who specializes in Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine. "Twelve children
who've been breast-fed have subsequently developed Lyme. Bb can be transmitted
transplacentally, even with in vitro fertilization; I've seen eight children infected in this
way.

People from Asia who come to me with the classic Lyme rash have been infected by
fleas and gnats."

Gregory Bach, D.O., presented a study on transmission via semen at the American
Psychiatric Association meeting in November 2000. He confirmed Bb DNA in semen
using the PCR test (Polymerase Chain Reaction). Dr. Bach calls Bb "a brother" to the
syphilis spirochete because of their genetic similarities. For that reason, when he treats a
Lyme patient in a relationship, he often treats the spouse; otherwise, he says, they can
just pass the Bb back and forth, reinfecting each other.

Dr. Tang adds other avenues of infection: "Transmission may also occur via blood
transfusion and through the bite of mosquitoes or other insects." Dr. Cowden contends
that unpasteurized goat or cow milk can infect a person with Bb.
http://www.explorepub.com/articles/enderlein3.html
Synthesis of the Work of Enderlein, Bechamps and other Pleomorphic Researchers

My husband and I both have Lyme, Ehrlichia, and Babesia.

I was sick over a year before he showed any sx. He has no hx of tick bites; I do, and had the bulls eye rash.

The rare times that we "fooled around" without using protection, he always had a flareup within the next day or two. In fact, that is how he first exhibited sx at all.

When we went to our LLMD with this information, he said, "You had better use protection just in case." Many doctors are now convinced that Lyme is sexually transmittable. The jury is still out on other tick borne diseases.

This topic as well as congenital transmission were touched on in the recently published paper titled:

'Lyme Disease': ancient engine of an unrecognized borreliosis pandemic?

here's an example:

"The CDC position on sexual intra-human Bbsl transmission is that it does not occur(17). We find no study that addresses sexual transmission of Bb among humans; conversely, we find no study supporting that is does not occur. Inferential data, however, suggest the possibility of human sexual transfer. . . . Our clinical experience strongly suggests that predictable, possibly inevitable Bbsl transfer between sexually active couples occurs. . . . "

So, basically - I'd always be conservative and would rather be "safe than sorry"!!

I can remember when they first studied AIDS and told us in an "information session" at work - that it was a disease confined to the homosexual population - we've seen how wrong that was.

Just my opinion tho!!!
Sherry R

------------------

Dr. Bach spoke in Salisbury, MD on saturday, june 21st.

The release mentioned the published article: Recovery of Lyme Spirochetes by PCR in Semen Samples of Previously Diagnosed Lyme Disease Patients.

Got my attention.

I was outta town and could not go.
Did anyone go to this seminar?

Of course it could just be being married to me . . . .

Horrifying to think you could pass this to a loved one. Just makes you sick(er).

My husband has been having bouts of arthritic joints often in the past year. I do ponder if he could have gotten Lyme from me. He had a pain in his shoulder for 2 months and the doc told him it was arthritis (he is 44). He is battling the same pain again now, months later it returned. He complains of days he "feels weak" and days of fatigue. My husband is very active and it scares me when he says he feels tired. He also has muscle spasms at the bottom of his heart so he takes heart meds for that. A heart cath. earlier this year had shown that, no known cause.

------------------

Angela

My wifes has since been tested and was positive on lyme dot blot tests two out of three urine samples urine 1 neg. urine2 and urine3 POS she shed all the markers. Now being treated for lyme and feeling quite good in her 4thmonth.

SO I say yes it is sexually transmitable!!!!!!

update still being treated 6/10/05
and wetern blot was possitve to bothe igg igm.

I'm hoping he'll get tested so he can start treatment and get to feeling well enough to look for a job. On the other hand, if he gets diagnosed with lyme, I guess there's a chance that a new employer's insurance wouldn't cover him.

I am the one with Lyme and he has never been bitten by a tick.

Therefore I really think he got it from me. A week after we were married I had to take him to the hospital....high fever, aching joints and muscles. He was really sick...they told him it was some kind of infection and sent him home with abx.

we didn't have sex before we were married....

I've been the picture of poor health for 10 years, my husband has been the picture of perfect health all this time. Neither one of us had known tick attachment. I was diagnosed last year.

I just found out yesterday that my husband's IGenex western blot was positive for bands 23-25, 31, 34, 39 and 41 on the IGM! He works 60 hours/week no problem, no fatigue, no pains, runs long distance, NEVER sick ... NOTHING to indicate he's suffering with lyme. I only tested positive on 2 IGM bands and I've had almost every lyme symptom in the book.

Folks, it's hard to tell by symptoms alone!!

We only had him tested because my 2 kids were positive (didn't think they'd be + either) but because of our 10 year history of "no protection" thought to get hubby tested just in case.

Do I think we got it from one another? I think so. I think I gave it to him. When they say some people are assymptomatic that is my husband! Get everyone tested now, why wait for symptoms or worsening symptoms?

The positive IgM western blot for your husband is very interesting. Were there any bands on the IgG?

As I'm sure you know - IgG antobies are amde after IgM, and are the ones that stay in the body longer to remeber the antigen when it's present again.

Your husbands lack of IgG antibodies but absense of symtoms with a positive IgM starts
to give validity to the theory that humoral
immunity may be involved (and sucessful).

What does your Dr. say about this?

My LLMD suggested that we only test for the IGM ($90.00 for IGenex) and see what happens (since none of us, LLMD included, thought such a healthy person could be positive. So, I don't know his IGG (yet). We go to see my LLMD together on Tuesday and then we'll get the IGG half of his Western Blot test done.

Why didn't we do it all at once? We have been hit hard financially with all this testing recently (2 kids tested, the upcoming Dr. Jones visit for them, my ongoing treatment costs, travel costs to LLMDs, aging van, x-mas expenses...so to save $90.00 thought we'd only do IGM for now.

Barb, what is humeral immunity? I'd like to know. I will post update on this tread what LLMD thinks about my husband's positivity. I'm wondering if during treatment he'll go thru any misery from herxing/die-off?

I forgot to mention that my husband's only illness in a decade was an attack of colitis that landed him in the hospital. This was out of the blue. He was feverish and in severe pain. He had IV abx and wasn't well for more than a week. He had a colonoscopy done a month later and his colon was perfect. Could this have been a lyme-related symptom??

If his IGG is negative, for example, would this indicate a more recent infection/bite? I am still dumbfounded that he is positive. He is an urban guy who lives in a cubical for work, not an outdoorsman. I guess there's no way to prove it was sexually transmitted...but I believe it can be.

I was typing when you posted.

Good point, good for all people to know that the "wait and see" approach to treatment or testing makes them ticking time bombs so to speak. I blew up back last May Hindsight is 20/20... Didn't Tincup write an article about the dangers of "wait and see"?

As I was driving home this evening.. I was doing the usual dreaming about what I can do to make folks pay attention to the Lyme problem.

I was thinking.. what if I could rent one of those HUGE bulletin boards that stand so high up in the sky.. along the main road.. as you enter the town of Baltimore, Maryland?

If I could do this... I would have it covered in Lyme green neon paint of course.. and then I would put a few BIG words on it that REALLY make a PUNCH.

One of the ideas was.... in BIG BOLD black letters..

"LYME IS SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED"

Would that be fun or what?

No..

I can't prove it..

But no one else can absolutely prove it isn't.

It would sit on the highway and everyone heading into town would see it. Especially the folks headed to HOPKINS!

If I PAID for the ad... and rented the space... who could make it be taken down?

It would sure enough cause a LOT of talk!

BUT if I would have known then what I know now I would have taken precautions.

As with all things better safe than sorry.

Sent

Since we had been married for 8 years and my smptoms have been going on for 8 years we agreed to have him tested. Bingo, he was postive and began treatment ASAP. He told us that if we were not both treated that I would never get better. Also that some people are carriers and will never get sick. Similar to HIV!

Read what she posted and follow it.
There is enough information out there to prove Lyme CAN be transmitted sexually.

Listen to Tincup. Been here a long time and is very, very knowledgable.

****I volunteer for the local red cross and they told me that people infected with lyme disease are not allowed to donate blood for an indefinite period of time....so caution about donating blood!!!

And on the other hand it is easier to gain support for research and treatment financially, by the government, medical community, society, etc. when it is a sexually transmitted disease....

We are both cured - whatever you wish to call it. We are both feeling super. Thank God.

I feel that it is conjecture to say that one person contracts it from another in ANY way.

You will hear about clusters in couples, families, ect. Especially in high exposure areas.

During experience as an HIV/AIDS prevention and testing counselor volunteer I would recommend that sexual partners be tested for HIV as well as any other sexually transmitted infections before becomming sexually involved.

As far as Lyme being sexually transmitted, I have inquired at training sessions based on CDC information and no one that I have spoken with has ever heard of any reliable information but I have been told that it is NOT considered to be sexually transmitted.

By the way, my husband does not have LD nor does the other partner in which I had unprotected sex for almost a year after I had contracted it.

I'm not saying that it's not possible through intercouse but highly unlikely. I think personally think that we don't have enough information yet.

I'm not a doctor though so perhaps you should ask your LLMD or go to the CDC website.

Lisa

quote:

---

Originally posted by Semper Fi:
Bryan, it is a low probability, to start. If you are now negative on the IgM western blot from Igenex you will be resonably safe. And to make sure they can do the test on your semen sample. You need to have active lyme to pass it on. Your a good Boy.... I'm proud of you....

---

wanted to add that the CDC used to say it was not passed on congenitally. they cited that there were only two documented cases where it was passed on congenitally. Karen Forschner's son Jaime and one other case.

they also said it was not passed on thru breast milk. now they concede that it can be passed on congenitally and thru breastmilk. and i think there are many mothers on this site, including me that know they passed it on to there children congenitally and/or thru breastmilk.

my husband has had symptoms since a mosquito bite in which he contracted "viral" encephalitis more than 20 yrs ago. encephalitis headaches went away, but he still did not have the memory he should have. none of us were the same after a trip to nantucket island in '91, and my son has been sick since birth.

but still, we did not recognize our children's symptoms as serious. bot children exel academically and my daughter has always been a gifted athlete. my husbands perception of himself was that he was "healthy as an ox".

when a few yrs ago, a stomach flu triggered a recurrence of the encephalitis headaches he had 20 yrs earlier, i knew he had it too. he didn't think so. my neuro , who was treating me for lyme at the time, examined him and assured us he is "healthy as an ox". took me a year before he finnally agreed to be tested. and this is only because when he picked me up from support group, fellow support group members told him i would never get better until he gets treatment because he will just keep passing it back to me.

he got tested. expected the tests to come back neg, but instead his pcr was pos. he was surprised, but not shocked.

it took me a long time before i recognized my children had this. my son had symptoms since birth, so i never suspected lyme as the cause. my daughter had wierd circular rashes all over her body after playing in a leaf littered playground at her preschool in washington crossing , PA. pediatrition (who also has social connections at that preschool i later found out) told me not to even bring her in. give her benedryl, they are just hives. an alergic reaction to something. (later testing for alergies showed she has none).

at age 5, she got a deer tick bite after playing in a neighbors backyard where there was some overgrown grass. only found the tiny thing on her neck because i was having trouble with some tangles in her long hair.

pulled it out, but the head stayed in, so ran to the phone and called the pediatrition. pediatrition had written an article in a parents magazine on lyme disease. though now know it is filled with inaccuracies, falsely reassuring parents.

she laughed at my worries, said less than two percent of the ticks here carry the bacteria, throw the tick out, they don't even test them. it was not attached long enough. when what i now know to be an obvious bullseye rash developed, ws told again not to bring her in to be seen, it's not big enough to be a real bullseye, it is just a reaction around the bite site. i now have a better idea of all the various things this can do to people, how it affects us all differently , and it was so obvious my kids had symptoms.

suspecting that my daughter's night terrors were neuro in origin (when told people in my support group about my daughter, they told me she has symptoms, get her to a lyme dr.)and that her behavior problems might be due to lyme, i took her to the pediatric neuro at my neuro's practice. he reassured me she was the picture of health. most definately did not have lyme and proved it with a negative elisa from quest labs(like not even having the lyme tests done i now know). i was releaved to be assured she did not have lyme. she had lyme and babesia.

when a couple of years later i discovered the photos of me from out '91 vacation to nantucket island (capitol of lyme and babesia) with my daughter, a 9 mos old nursing baby in the photo, i had a local dr test my kids thru MDL.

daughter came back neg (except maybe for band 66 on IGG western blot) , but son was pos by pcr. took him to pediatric neuro. told me my sons' pcr was a false pos pcr, he sees them all the time. lied and said he had an ear infection (no congestion, no fever , no ear pain) and prescribed 2 wks amoxil. (also considered "standard care" for lyme. protecting himself from possible lawsuit?). another pediatrition i took him to right after determined that he did not have an ear infection and was shocked that in the little boys 6 yrs of life, no dr had ever treated him for his obvious lyme. pediatric neuro told me he does second opinons for dorethy petrushka. i doubt it.

both have pos from bowen. son is pos by pcr and now pos for mycoplasma. daughter was neg pcr, but pos on elisa at stonybrook, equivical western blot.

sometimes the disease is mild in people to the point they don't recognize they have symptoms. sometimes they have had the symptoms for so many yrs and are used to living with them, don't even realize they have them.

I feel it has to be since it is syphillus's cousin and more complex. I read a researcher was shut down for conducting research it was transmissible by touching. Don't know how reliable that info was, but it is example (if true) of how they don't want anyone to know.

Lymiecanuck