Now I have started Doxy for the Lyme. About 3 or 4 days into it I started having what I thought was a flare up in symptoms. This also coincided with my time of the month, which is usually a rough time anyway, but this month was different.

I'm having alot more pain in my knees than usual and also much more intense numbness in my hands and feet. That draggy, tired, foggy-headed feeling is much worse too.

I guess I was expecting something more intense for a herx, new symptoms or something drastic to happen. I really was bracing for the worst. Is this what a herx is, just the same old symptoms intensified? Would they be starting just 3 or 4 days after being on antibiotics?

And how long does it usually last? It's been about six days now... Will it come and go, or stay like this the whole time I'm taking the abx? I'm supposed to up the dose next week, should I expect to feel even worse after I do that?

It's bearable, but really getting me running for the Advil, especially seems to be worse in the evening and at night. I had one really rough night the pain in my knees, shoulders and elbows kept me up all night.

I know you all aren't MD's but I would really like to hear from you based on your experiences.

I wanted to add: All this talk about the Bowen lab really has me wondering... It was the only test I took that I got a positive on. I really do believe the results were correct. I remember pulling the tick off of me and have not been well since. If this is a herx I'm having from the Doxy, that would only further my belief that the Bowen was accurate when all the other tests were not. Time will tell. Thanks.

The knees can be a sign from liver overload.
I get weak knees when I get my period, and also when I liver cleanse.

I heard that doxy can be hard on the liver, and being that you were on the other antibiotics... maybe? your liver is not handling it?

I could very well be wrong and it is all herxing. Also, watch your eyes, when they burn... this can be a sign of liver overload. Eyes and liver, eyes are the sense organ for the liver. When I did liver cleansing years ago, I could NOT wear my contacts as the eyes were burning... as on fire. All liver cleansing.

Something to check, maybe not apply to you, but maybe ?

Herxes are different for everyone, there is no magic number to it. Some people herx constantly, some herx every three to four weeks, some never but still improve.

Its that way because everyone has their own strains of BB and co infections and their own bacterial load.

The 3 to 4 day herx on new antibiotic is VERY common, however, and so is the 3 to 4 week cyclic nature, and the intensification aroudn the period.

A herx can consist of any system, new or old, instensification of any syptoms you have already had or totally new symptoms.

Do you keep a journal of each and every day? it will really help you out in future times, not only so you can see if you have a herx pattern or not

but also so you can watch your progress

For me, I usually always herx on the 3 or 4th day of a new medication. And they usually DO go right back to being just as bad as in the beginning when I switch meds. For example, when I was on amoxy, I had two very very terrible herxs, then they

tapered and weaned off. By the time I wsa done ( 6 months), I could hardly notice the herxs. I was put on a different med, and I got BLASTED out of no where with a herx, only three HOURS after taking the drug! It put me down for three whole days with severe vertigo, etc.

Now, that same drug that I JUST started on hardly bothers me at all. LOL so its a guess you know? Resistant, ridded the coinfection it is used for, etc.

Not every herx will be the same. Well, I mean they could be, but they might not be.

Im just coming out of a herx at the moment, and I had symptoms I havent had since August but thankfully, they are gone now.

What my LLMD recommends, and some others do also, is to back off your meds at the first sign of a herx. It really does work. but thats up to you and your doc.

Be sure to drink plenty of water to flush out toxins and take it easy. Hot bathes with epsom salt can also do wonders ( watch out for dizzy spells, maybe have someone with you?)

THey will lessen up over time, hopefully, but may come back just as hard or harder on different meds.

Good luck.

P.S. My herxs used to run 11 days. Then they went down to 7, and now I have "flyby herxs"- somtimes they last for a day or three, sometimes for literally HALF a day.

And yes, to anyone wondering, they are herxes lol

I don't really think this is a liver issue... the knee pain is deep bone aching and comes and goes. My eyes seem to be fine.

The journal is a good idea, Crime of Lyme, I was doing that for a while last year while trying to figure out what was wrong with me.

I think I will call my doc on Monday and ask if I should "back off the meds" if it gets too bad. As long as I can tolerate it, it's probably better to keep taking them, isn't it? I'm not taking that high of a dosage yet, seems weird I would have effects from it already, but I guess that means it's working and I'm all for THAT!!

I took Mepron (3 weeks on, 1 week off) & Zithromax for 2 months. Had no reaction the 1st month, but herxed when the symptoms intensified the 2nd month.
Later had to go back on the combo.

I've read since then that Babesia is very difficult to control, so watch your symptoms very closely. You may need more treatment!
Especially since Malarone is not as strong as Mepron. One LLMD in the Northeast says Malarone is "Mepron Lite".

Sounds as if you could be herxing on the Doxy, but remember the Zithromax is an antibiotic, too.
It could have stirred up the spirochetes before you got to the Doxy.

I'm only taking 100 mg twice a day. Supposed to up it to three a day, then four gradually.

Doesn't seem like enough does it? But I am a "light weight" literally, I only weigh 110. I'm one of those people who could never take the recommended dose of over the counter cold remedies because I would feel so out of it and one beer would totally do me in. Maybe that's why the doc gave me Malarone instead of Mepron.

How would I know if the Babesia comes back? I could never tell the difference between that or the Lyme. I'm not really sure what symptoms are what. I haven't had any night sweats or low grade fevers for awhile, I'm pretty sure thats Babesia, right? Oh, and the legs jerking at night. Thats gone now too.

Remember when I said I stopped the Malarone/zithro and things got worse? I've never had such bad jerking and twitching of muscles as I did those two days. Also the left side of my mouth twitched non-stop. I'm assuming thats the Babesia doing that. Have had no more problems since I did the extra week of zithro.

I guess I should be re-tested for Babesia just in case. I've heard too that it is awfully hard to get rid of.

Bowen caught the Babesia and Lyme for me.

Is this what a herx is, just the same old symptoms intensified?

That is exactly how my llmd, Dr. C of MO, describes herxing with the addition of new Lyme symptoms you've never experienced before.

Would they be starting just 3 or 4 days after being on antibiotics?

A herx can start at anytime.

And how long does it usually last?

A herx can last a few minutes to months.

It's been about six days now... Will it come and go, or stay like this the whole time I'm taking the abx?

I could, everyone responds differently, bacter. load, different makeup, harmones, response to meds...a real coin toss...no one can tell you the exact duration of each herx or even if you will have one at all. But certainly sounds like how my llmd discribes them.

I'm supposed to up the dose next week, should I expect to feel even worse after I do that?

You could!!! Or, you may not...My llmd has all his patients back off abx at the first sign of a herx and then start back on the abx in just a day or two to keep them from becoming too intense.

For more intense reading on many posts on this subject just click that search key up under Post New Topic and use the keyword, herx.

I have done this, and though its definately not written in stone, it works for me.

You're being treatd for lyme and babesia at the same time and it sounds as if you were diagnosed with both at the same time.. so hopefully you can still kinda do this.

As for me, I was with one LLMD for six months who didnt diagnose me with anything other than lyme, so I was only put on amoxy for 6 months.

It was when I went to the new LLMD I talk about in other posts, that he knew right away, based on clinical diagnosis even for co infections that I had babesia, and then after six months,

I started meds for babesia. ( thats NOT my suggestion LOL)

What I did do is keep a journal each and every day. At the top, I write the date, and what medicines I am on AND what supplements I have taken. I do this each and every day.

What I noticed for me is that my lyme herxs contained a majority of the symptoms I had always had, but

when I was backed into a babesia herx, those persistent symptoms I had the whole six months of prior treatment that wouldnt go away

REALLY came out- such as electric shooters on the bottoms of my feet, and tremors like a darn earthquake all through my body. Then, out of no where, came NEW symptoms even more typical of babesia.

When I started bartonella meds, I did the same thing- wrote it all down, and the herxs I get with bartonella, in my case, are

pretty much the symptoms I had wayy in the beginnin that I had long forgot about, such

as sinus troubles, swollen lymph glands, wheezing, fever and cough.

It can be rought trying to do that, because sometimes, a med for babesia kills offf the lyme also, and etc.

But it could be worth a try and maybe after time writing it down, you will see a pattern of symptoms that come out during that time, etc. Or, a symptom that goes away AFTER the treatment, etc.

If you get real good at picking and choosing what is what and which goes where , you will

know when babesia rears its ugly head at you.

I hope this helped.

About the knee pain: could someone explain their experience in more detail? I have had pain in my knee cap and in the joint. I think it's probably part of herxing too, but I'd love to hear more about what others feel in their knees.

As for the knee pain, mine started as a shooting pain above the knee cap off and on over the past year or so, now on the abx it has become almost a constant ache. Especially worse at night.

Also my right shoulder, both elbows and some of my finger joints on my left hand which have bothered me off and on before have become much worse since being on the meds.

I also have popping, cracking and grinding joints that get much louder and more noticeable during lyme "episodes".

It makes alot of sense about backing off the meds... I'm going to call and ask the doc about it. Thank you again, can always count on you guys to come through for me!