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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Benicar for children with Lyme disease

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Author Topic: Benicar for children with Lyme disease
free2reckon
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edited...

[This message has been edited by free2reckon (edited 13 May 2004).]


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treepatrol
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Heres some details.

Benicar

Active Ingredients: Olmesartan
Representative Names: Benicar
Available Product Images:


Who is this for?

Olmesartan is used to treat high blood pressure. It blocks the action of certain chemicals that tighten the blood vessels, so blood flows more smoothly. This medication is sometimes prescribed for other uses; ask your doctor or pharmacist for more information.


How does it work? >>


Read about health conditions Benicar may be used to treat:

Heart Failure
Hypertension (High Blood Pressure)

What side effects should I watch for?


Although side effects from olmesartan are not common, they can occur. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:

dizziness or lightheadedness
congestion
cough
diarrhea
trouble sleeping
headache
muscle aches
fever
sore throat
If you experience any of the following symptoms, call your doctor immediately:

swelling of the face, eyes, lips, tongue, arms, or legs
difficulty breathing or swallowing
fainting
rash
How does it work?

Olmesartan is an angiotensin II receptor blocker, or ARB. It is thought to help lower blood pressure by blocking angiotensin II, a hormone in the body that causes blood vessels to constrict or narrow. This narrowing of blood vessels due to angiotensin II hormone is an important component of high blood pressure. Blocking the hormone causes vessels to relax or dilate, and thus olmesartan helps reduce blood pressure.


When should I be careful taking it?

Do not take olmesartan if you are pregnant or breast-feeding. If you become pregnant while taking olmesartan, call your doctor immediately.


Before taking olmesartan,

tell your doctor and pharmacist if you are allergic to olmesartan or any other drugs.

tell your doctor and pharmacist what prescription and nonprescription medications you are taking, especially diuretics ("water pills"), lithium (Eskalith, Lithobid), other medications for high blood pressure, potassium supplements, and vitamins.

tell your doctor if you have or have ever had heart or kidney disease or diabetes.

if you are having surgery, including dental surgery, tell the doctor or dentist that you are taking olmesartan.


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pab
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Scott,

I have 2 kids with Lyme Disease.

Who is your LLMD and have you made him/her aware of this? (My kids are seeing a 2nd LLMD in a few weeks and I think it may be the one you see.)

Thanks!

------------------


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free2reckon
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edited...

[This message has been edited by free2reckon (edited 13 May 2004).]


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free2reckon
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edited...

[This message has been edited by free2reckon (edited 13 May 2004).]


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levity101
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Scott,
My son sees Dr.C as well - I know he is open to new ideas. I have a few questions...

Is Dr. Marshall a Lyme doc? I'm assuming not...since you printed his name. Are you being treated with Benicar for high blood pressure specifically? and are you saying that it has helped your Lyme symptoms, too...
if so, which symptoms are improved?

Sounds interesting and I'm glad to hear that you are feeling better!

My son tends to have low blood pressure...so I doubt if it would be an option - but sometimes drugs have multiple uses.

Thanks for the info. and for thinking about the kids,
Nancy


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free2reckon
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edited...

[This message has been edited by free2reckon (edited 13 May 2004).]


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lla2
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I beg to differ here...benicar can seriously cause problems for those with low blood pressure..it may not effect adults so much , but a child with low blood pressure there isn't much room to go anywhere...

I would never give benicar to my kids ..both of them have lyme , but both have hypotension with the lyme...they could really bottom out on this med. I've had adult patients who if you don't monitor their b/p closely have almost bottomed out blood pressure wise on me....

I"m kind of surprised it's been recommmedned for kids actually...I think i'll go read up on google...

editing here to add that when i googled it under benicar.com I found that they have not done any research on anyone under the age of 18 yet. Which doesnt' surprise me, as their blood vessels , i don't htink could handle a strong vasodialator like this....of course this is all just my own opinion..

i'm happy that it's working for you and your lyme symptoms...I just wanted to add the warning about kids with this med

Lisa

[This message has been edited by lla2 (edited 29 April 2004).]


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levity101
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I just read the long and interesting post about the Marshall protocol - a lot to think about.

Scott, thanks for answering my questions - will be eagerly awaiting Dr.Cs ideas on this.

Lisa, thanks for airing your concerns, too -

This whole discussion prompts me to go back and read about Shoemaker's use of Actos to inhibit the inflammatory cascade...wondering how they relate, if at all.

Nancy


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free2reckon
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edited...

[This message has been edited by free2reckon (edited 13 May 2004).]


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free2reckon
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edited...

[This message has been edited by free2reckon (edited 13 May 2004).]


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TheCrimeOfLyme
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Scott,

Have you talked to Dr. C about this yet? I go to see him on June 11th and my 6 year old little girl, Destiny, is going in to see him also.

My daughter has kidney problems, so of course I worry about this. I don't know who I should ask this or if You could help me in finding out, but

she has neurogenic bladder ( cathing required), left and right kidney reflux (ureter implants), distended bladder, and slight I lost the word polycalytis of the kidneys and hydro of the kidneys. ( Birth defect, persitent cloca, no seperation of the bowel, bladder, vagina, one sinus canal- the bladder, impreforate anus and vaginas- TWO vaginas)

Her kidney function is however, 95 percent. ( hard to believe) I don't know if this is something I should put her on? I dont know if I should call Dr. Marshall on that???


Maybe Dr. C will have this all together by the time I get there. Im very scared to initite "the aggresive doc" on her due to all of her problems. Im hesitant and scared for her but I know she will be in good hands.

She's resistant to SOOO much medication, it is unbelievable. Considering bowel and bladder and vagina were in combo, she has had a UTI for 6 years ( or she has had lyme for that long and it was overlooked gravely) so she always has ecoli, proteus infections, you name it and over those 6 years, BOY have they made her resistant to A LOT.

Jodie



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lla2
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jodie,

read the info on the website for benicar..it' is definitely contraindicated for those with kidney disease..do not use.

It is also not EVER BEEN TESTED ON CHILDREN OR THOSE UNDER THE AGE OF 18. I am not denying my children of anything. there are many other products I can use for them that have been safely tested for use in children without taking a risk.

again, I'm glad it's working so well for you though...good luck with it.

Scott , i do understand how benicar works..I'm a nurse and have patients on it . I also know it's not a beta blocker..but I do know how it is an antihypertensive and how it will drop a blood pressure rapidly..i've seen it happen...especially in the elderly....just be careful if you already have low b/p. that's all

Lisa

[This message has been edited by lla2 (edited 29 April 2004).]


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free2reckon
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edited...

[This message has been edited by free2reckon (edited 13 May 2004).]


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free2reckon
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edited...

[This message has been edited by free2reckon (edited 13 May 2004).]


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kissis
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Was going to try and relay Benicar info to my LLMD ,think were talking about same Dr.? Are we talking about Dr.C in Missouri?
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jen13
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Scott, is one thing to say you'd give it to your own children without hesitation (I assume you mean if they had lyme you'd bring them to a doctor you respect, probably an LLMD, and talk to him about the idea of administering benicar, not that you'd directly give it to your children) and another to say about a child who you yourself have never seen,

We'd need to do some more investigation to make sure I'm correct, but I think she should be able to handle Benicar fine. Since her kidneys are functioning at 95%.

Benicar is very safe to use...I see no contraindications at this time....but again, that should be investigated further.

You may be a very intelligent veterinarian but how can you say of someone whose history you do not know in detail and whom you are not personally treating and who is not a dog or cat, "I see no contraindications at this time"? At least you qualify it, but it really isn't your judgment call to make and on the internet, is it?

Also how can you say without qualification:

There is no other way to stop this inflammatory cascade...unless you want to give them large doses of corticosteroids, which is contraindicated in borreliosis.
--
Surely there are other ways. Byron was going to look into Chinese herbs and already thought he'd found some that would work. I am fairly convinced that hyperbaric, or even the IV drips I get with magnesium, help quench the inflammatory cascade, as oddly, do the valium drugs.

Please try to be a little more cautious in your claims. Clearly you are very excited but you are going overboard. These are early days of a treatment that may help reduce herxes and will have a bellcurve of response, LIKE ANYTHING BECAUSE OF EVOLUTION AND GENETIC VARIATION AND THE FACT THAT ALL OF US HAVE DIFFERENT BACTERIAL LOADS, DIFFEDRENT INFECTIONS, DIFFERENT IMMUNE RESPONSES ETC....it may be useful to add in but lyme is a much more gnarly disease than sarcoidosis (unless lyme is involved in a small # of those cases)...its often multiple infections with some very pesky bugs, there may be overlap in these two diseases and insights to take from both, but their response curve will not be the same.

Time will tell and a neutral but interested stance is a lot wiser than posting all over the board that this is the missing key, the potential cure, etc etc.


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lla2
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Here's what it says from google under: 'general precautions of benecar and how it lowers b/p... and what population it is used in safely. just be aware....

Special Populations

Pediatric: The pharmacokinetics of olmesartan have not been investigated in patients <18 years of age.

Geriatrics: The pharmacokinetics of olmesartan were studied in the elderly (?65 years). Overall, maximum plasma concentrations of olmesartan were similar in young adults and the elderly. Modest accumulation of olmesartan was observed in the elderly with repeated dosing; AUCss, ? was 33% higher in elderly patients, corresponding to an approximate 30% reduction in CLR..

Gender: Minor differences were observed in the pharmacokinetics of olmesartan in women compared to men. AUC and Cmax were 10-15% higher in women than in men.

Renal Insufficiency: In patients with renal insufficiency, serum concentrations of olmesartan were elevated compared to subjects with normal renal function. After repeated dosing, the AUC was approximately tripled in patients with severe renal impairment (creatinine clearance <20 mL/min). The pharmacokinetics of olmesartan in patients undergoing hemodialysis has not been studied.

Hepatic Insufficiency: Increases in AUC0-? and Cmax were observed in patients with moderate hepatic impairment compared to those in matched controls, with an increase in AUC of about 60%.

Drug Interactions: See PRECAUTIONS, Drug Interactions.

Pharmacodynamics

Olmesartan medoxomil doses of 2.5 to 40 mg inhibit the pressor effects of angiotensin I infusion. The duration of the inhibitory effect was related to dose, with doses of olmesartan medoxomil >40 mg giving >90% inhibition at 24 hours.

Plasma concentrations of angiotensin I and angiotensin II and plasma renin activity (PRA) increase after single and repeated administration of olmesartan medoxomil to healthy subjects and hypertensive patients. Repeated administration of up to 80 mg olmesartan medoxomil had minimal influence on aldosterone levels and no effect on serum potassium.

Clinical Trials

The antihypertensive effects of BENICAR� have been demonstrated in seve n placebo-controlled studies at doses ranging from 2.5 to 80 mg for 6 to 12 weeks, each showing statistically significant reductions in peak and trough blood pressure. A total of 2693 patients (2145 BENICAR�; 548 placebo) with essential hypertension were studied. BENICAR� once daily (QD) lowered diastolic and systolic blood pressure. The response was dose-related, as shown in the following graph. An olmesartan medoxomil dose of 20 mg daily produces a trough sitting BP reduction over placebo of about 10/6 mm Hg and a dose of 40 mg daily produces a trough sitting BP reduction over placebo of about 12/7 mm Hg. Olmesartan medoxomil doses greater than 40 mg had little additional effect. The onset of the antihypertensive effect occurred within 1 week and was largely manifest after 2 weeks.

Data above are from seven placebo-controlled studies (2145 BENICAR? patients, 548 placebo patients).The blood pressure lowering effect was maintained throughout the 24-hour period with BENICAR� once daily, with trough-to-peak ratios for systolic and diastolic response between 60 and 80%.

The blood pressure lowering effect of BENICAR�, with and without hydrochlorothiazide, was maintained in patients treated for up to 1 year. There was no evidence of tachyphylaxis during long-term treatment with BENICAR� or rebound effect following abrupt withdrawal of olmesartan medoxomil after 1 year of treatment.

The antihypertensive effect of BENICAR� was similar in men and women and in patients older and younger than 65 years. The effect was smaller in black patients (usually a low-renin population), as has been seen with other ACE inhibitors, angiotensin receptor blockers and beta-blockers. BENICAR� had an additional blood pressure lowering effect when added to hydrochlorothiazide.


all i'm saying is htat i've seen a very different experience in my patients , most of them had the reduction in b/p that is menitoned above..some very dramatically. it may even out over a long period of time...but some had trouble before that.....


just be careful and investigate this med, as we do all others. check with your llmd.

Lisa

[This message has been edited by lla2 (edited 30 April 2004).]

[This message has been edited by lla2 (edited 30 April 2004).]


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free2reckon
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edited...

[This message has been edited by free2reckon (edited 13 May 2004).]


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free2reckon
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edited...

[This message has been edited by free2reckon (edited 13 May 2004).]


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TheCrimeOfLyme
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Someone had said "again, Im glad it works for you" I dont recall who, but just in case they were referring to me, Im not on benicar.

I havent studied it enough. But the renal/kidney clearance scares the living crap right out of me for my daughter. I think I will wait on this one.. shes my baby.


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free2reckon
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edited...

[This message has been edited by free2reckon (edited 13 May 2004).]


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lla2
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crime..I meant 'glad it's working to Scott'...not to you. Iknow how cautious you are with your daughter..jsut like i am with my kids...we monitor everything that goes into their mouths...adn through their bodies

I find it weird, that we're suddenly being bombarded by posts about this. While I think it's great to introduce something new that we can all learn about, I get concerned when we're force fed something over and over again.

I KNOW I get the basic understanding of this now, adn I'm sure others do to. enough so, that those that want to can go on to search for more info....Thanks Scott for bringing it to our attention. I"m sure that there are many that will benefit from this. As a commmunity we're always looking for new ways to help ourselves.

But please dont' tell me what I should be doing for my kids. My kids are under the best care they could be getting with dr. Jones. They are almost 100% after 2 long years of treatment. They have no 'inflammation'. I"m a nurse, have done a lot of research, adn I'm on top of it. Thanks for your concern. But for me, there isn't enough data supporting it's use in children for me to ever use this yet. NO reason to.

again, thanks for your concern though. And i"m sure many will benefit from your info.

Lisa

[This message has been edited by lla2 (edited 30 April 2004).]

[This message has been edited by lla2 (edited 30 April 2004).]

[This message has been edited by lla2 (edited 30 April 2004).]


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pennyhoule
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Bombarded? Are you kidding? I want more! My daughter's 18 and if this can help her, I want to know everything I possibly can. She's actually considered an adult now, but she's still my baby. And I've got a 14 year old who doesn't seem to be infected, YET, and I pray she doesn't get sick, but if she does...

penny


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free2reckon
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edited...

[This message has been edited by free2reckon (edited 13 May 2004).]


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Mo
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oopsie!

[This message has been edited by Mo (edited 30 April 2004).]


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Mo
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Scott,

I really appreciate the opportunity to reseach something like this for myself with all the info you have compiled and are sharing. Thank you for your caring and your research. I don't quite understand the ruffled feathers over this..

I have to read more of it, but so far I am intrigued.

I would like to discuss this with my and the kids Docs.

If you have a minute..whenever..could you give me a tip as to which papers may be the best ones to refer to?

Then I also plan to take the next couple of weeks to process the info in my own mind, so I can really talk it over with them.

I'm wondering if this would be of particular value to those of us with the 31k band, associated with autoimmunity..and also whether I can connect these ideas with my losering IGM serum (immoniglobulins..) I gotta read more.

Again, thank you so much..I think we need more thinkers like you..I'm sure you do this with the hope that folks do adequate research before making any moves..

Also..the PDR on aspirin is pretty scary, I don't think we'd take much of anything if we focus disproportionately on all of that..

It all must be weighed.

Mo

[This message has been edited by Mo (edited 30 April 2004).]


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lla2
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I think if the research shows it works well wtih kids then i'd use it for them. Again, no approval has been given by the fda for use on children under the age of 18, nor has any research been done on children under the age of 18.

It could possibly help, you're right, but I"m not willing to let my kids be the ones who try it. Thank goodness they're ok now. I hope it does help many in the future. I'm not sure if dr. jones will use it....hopefully many of you will find out and keep us all posted..! He so excellent, if he thinks it's good for the kids , he'll be the first one on the bandwagon , that's for sure!!

and yes, I would stop my children from having something to 'maybe' get them better sooner IF there was a CHANCE they could get sicker or die from it..that's my job as a mom. NOt sure why your'e trying to make me feel guilty here scott, but it won't work...of course I'll always do what I think is best for my kids, not what others feel is best...I think every mom amd dad feels that way...quicker is always the safest, BEST way to go.

best,

Lisa

[This message has been edited by lla2 (edited 30 April 2004).]


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MarieElaine
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Scott -

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

I faxed a letter to Dr J today asking him to take a look at it.

I asked him to let me know if it would be appropriate for my 13 year old daugher.

We could sure use some good news.

I'll let you know what he says.

Thanks again for caring enough to post this.

Good luck to you.


Marie


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