posted
The article is very good. It lays out the difficulties with chelating very well.
However, unless I read it too quickly it misses the fact that new companies have produced new products to detox metals that are designed to limit the negative effects of chelating, including the healing crisis that results.
One of the problems with chelating is that the agent used, such as chlorella, will move mercury out of its resting place in the body, but won't expell all of what it moves, thus, the metal gets reabsorbed by the body (usually through the colon), which causes the healing crisis.
New products are designed to eliminate that effect by working more efficiently. In other words, they are designed to expell all that they move, or to expell metals through the urine and not the colon.
A few of us are experimenting with these new products but it seems too early to tell if they are working or not...at it's too early for me to recommend any of them.
Still, I know people who have used Klinghardt's protocol successfully, even though it was too extreme for me. Others have used Cutler's protocol successfully.
Lymelighter
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5310
posted
"However, unless I read it too quickly it misses the fact that new companies have produced new products to detox metals that are designed to limit the negative effects of chelating, including the healing crisis that results."
James, I'm about to start a chelation program. What are the "new products" you mentioned that limit the negative effects? Is Laser Accupuncture Detox (LAD) what you're referring to? Who does this technique?
[This message has been edited by Lymelighter (edited 09 May 2004).]
posted
I have tried both of the two new products listed below, but have discontinued their use until I have candida under control, as per instructions from my candida specialist.
I expect to be using them again in the next few months. However, because I haven't used either product extensively, I can't recommend either one at the moment.
I can report that I discontinued Klinghardt's protocol because the symptoms were too extreme, and I was worried about permanent damage resulting from the detox program itself. More on that below.
The first new product is actually 11 years old, but is just now being recognized by practitioners around the country. It is PCA-Rx. It uses hi-tech chemistry to bind metals in a manner that does not let them be reabsorbed by the body. Information on it can be found at http://ssl.maxamlabs.com/MAXAM_ASP_Home.asp
The second new product is called NDF and NDF Plus. I met the person who developed this product. Both he and his office staff are very helpful. This product is designed to limit the healing crisis by only using as much product as you can ingest without getting sick. You then ramp up the dose as your body allows. This is another hi-tech product. Details on it can be found at http://www.healthydetox.org.
There is another product that I found, but I haven't tried it, nor have I found anyone else who has tried it. It is called Modifilan, and it is a a concentrated brown seaweed extract from Russia, and can be found at http://www.modifilan.com/index.html
A warning that the top two products are expensive, however, when I compare their price to the full price of, for example, the Klinhardt protocol, which calls for chlorela, multiminerals, selectrolytes, etc., the prices aren't as high as they initially seem. This is also true for office chelation. I compared prices for myself on a monthly basis.
A fairly detailed explanation of a protocol that seems similar to Klinghardt's can be found on the National Integrated Health Associates site. This is a medical office in Washington, DC. Their website is at http://www.nihadc.com and their very detailed metal detox article is at http://www.nihadc.com/detox_home.pdf.
However, if you are considering using normal chelation methods for heavy metals, please remember that some people warn that such procedures are dangerous and can leave you with permanent damage. It was my severe response to Klinghardt's protocol, and reading about such warnings, that inspired me to find other products that would detox mercury, but would not lead to other health problems or even to a healing crisis.
BTW, I know of one other Lyme patient who successfully used Andrew Hall Cutler's protocol. It is very detailed, but I found it too confusing to follow. However, that could have been brainfog due to the candida and metals I was experiencing at the time. Anyway, his website is http://www.noamalgam.com/
Dr. Omura in NY has done much research in this area and he trains professionals in the field. He doesn't work with patients and he has not returned my repeated attempts at contacting him, however, here is a link to an article that reveals a simplified and inexpensive detox protocol based on his work: http://www.oasistv.com/news/3-17-00-story-2.asp
I hope all this information helps. As I've said before, metal detoxing has a learning curve of its own, and it seems as individual and as confusing as Lyme treatment itself.
Lymelighter
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5310
posted
James, wow, lots of tid bits for me to digest. Thanks for all of your work. I'm gonna' load up on the Cilantro pesto over a nice dish of pasta. I can't believe how much a 30ml bottle of PCA costs!?
I noticed you didn't mention Alpha Lipoic Acid or chlorella? Have you used these "natural" chelators? Can it be used as an exclusive chelator, or do you need also need an agent like DMSA?
[This message has been edited by Lymelighter (edited 10 May 2004).]
posted
Many people react badly to chlorella...I may be one of those.
Remember that the bad thing with chlorella is that it dislodges a lot of mercury in the system, but can only expel about half of that from the body. This means that the other half is re-absorbed by the body (through the colon) and can resettle in the brain causing much damage and more symptoms. The Klinghardt protocol for metal detoxing uses chlorella and resulted in a bad experience for me.
Also, I think I have a lot of mercury in my brain and nervous system because I also had extreme mental symptoms surface when I used alpha-lipoic acid, which helps to dislodge mercury from the brain. In my case, I think the mercury simply got moved around and because I was using chlorella, which failed to expell it all, I ended up getting worse instead of better.
My example is why mercury detox is not simple. I got in trouble and I was working with a world class professional who has people from all over north america travel to where he is because he is so good at what he does. I happen to live in the same town as him. Yet, his mercury detox protocol ended up being dangerous for me. Go figure.
That is why I posted so much resource material for people to research...because this is a complicated and confusing area, but one that many Lyme patients have to make it through because heavy metals can suppress the immune system, and do other nasty things, that will make it more difficult to get rid of Lyme, while adding to the over all symptom cluster.
Just like Lyme, each person is different, so what did not work for me, may work for someone else. Again, we each have to find our way in this, which, again, is why I posted so much material.
It is also why the two major alternative products, though expensive, may be worth researching and trying for some of the worst cases. I believe I am one of the worst cases and can't use the more simple methods, including chlorella. I wish I could, and know of others who have successfully used it so I am not saying it is bad...you simply have to be careful and know the risks so that if you react badly, you can adjust accordingly.
posted
If your body cannot handle chlorella, your doctor should know that ahead of time. I don't know what methods of testing he uses, but with energy methods the doctor can tell how much mercury you have, where it is, and what your body needs to get it out.
As for Omura, he manufactures his own chlorella tablets which are high priced and sold only through the professionals he trains. This product is specially formulated by him, and acts much faster than ordinary cilantro. Omura touts it as a 100% mercury removal within a few days. I have used it, and found it to lower my mercury quite a bit, but nowhere near 100%. The doctor I see now has tested people who were treated by Omura and consistently found them to still have mercury. So, the bad news is that the 100% claim is not right. The good news is that his product removes a good chunk of mercury fast.
Typically, cilantro is better at removing mercury from the brain as opposed to the rest of the body.
Posts: 284 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: Aug 2003
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The person I was working with used energy testing too, but I still got in trouble.
I think that such testing is only as good as the professional using it, and even then, doesn't work for everyone. At least that seems to be my experience with the person who I worked with. He had people travelling from around north america for treatment, yet, he was not able to accurately recommend a treatment protocol for metal detoxing that worked for me.
I'm glad you found a good one.
Did you have success with any of the other alternative products? Also, how do you find one of Omura's practitioners? I found his personal contact information, but he hasn't returned my repeated attempts for information.
posted
Brian...I listed Cutler's website in the research material I posted. I also mentioned that, unlike you, I did not find his material easy to follow.
His book does contain a wealth of information...in fact, there is so much information I got lost in it.
How would you summarize his protocol for metal detox?
BTW, I appreciate your information that the alternative detox products did not work for you but that Cutler's protocol did.
posted
James: I agree that the doc's ability determines the quality of testing. That is why it is helpful to find one of those superstar docs. I have posted a few times, cautiously, about Omura's stuff for the reason you mention. You cannot find the people who do it, and therefore cannot get hold of his cilantro. My dentist was taking his course, and got me in as a test patient. Omura will never contact you. He is on the road all the time, and the people in his classes can't even get hold of him. They give no info on the practitioners around the country who do his stuff, so it's just a matter of luck if you find someone. In any case, now that I know Omura's stuff won't completely eliminate mercury, and the doc I see now has a much better protocol, I don't do much with Omura's methods. The guy I see now offers the LAD (laser accupuncture detox) procedure which is faster, easier, cheaper and more effective. He has taught LAD to some practitioners around the country, but I don't know who yet. I could probably inquire. LAD is some variation on energy treatments which he is refining for practical use for ordinary patients as this is an important issue as well as a confusing one. He also uses it in his chronic illness protocol to detox the body of other toxins which are essential to overcoming chronic Lyme.
As for the Cutler book, I read it, but did not act on it. I think he was recommending DMSA and Lipoic Acid which is pretty solid stuff. I know little about it, but suspect it is fine.
You mentioned the Klinghardt protocol, but as GiGi has stated before, I doubt he offers a one-size-fits-all protocol. The great doctors who do this stuff have many, many variables that they test you for while creating a protocol for each individual. My wife and I have the same infections (because I gave them to her), but our Dr uses different meds on each of us. He hasn't mentioned that anyone has had a bad reaction to LAD, but I haven't inquired enough on that. He is very focused on results, so he wouldn't be doing LAD if it was not very effective.
It would be real good for everybody here if this subject could be discussed in a dispassionate manner. That way, people can make some good choices without getting caught up in the crossfire and then being afraid to do anything. I am not implying any problem with this thread, but this subject usually gets out of hand. Results are all that anyone wants. In my opinion, the most important thing in chelation is to have a good method of testing, so that you know if you are making progress or not, and can then adjust accordingly.
Posts: 284 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: Aug 2003
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Having been a Klinghardt patient myself a few years back and knowing exactly how Dr. Klinghardt works, I want to point out here that there is no such thing as a Klinghardt Protocol that is for everyone.
Each patient's treatment for preparation to chelation, the type of agents used for treatments, the timing of application of the agents, etc. etc. differ from one patient to the next. I have in all the years never met anyone who has been treated in the same manner, with the same protocol, where timing was identical. Besides that, chelation is a very small part of the overall treatment.
Every remedy and every agent or drug that any patient takes has been tested for the individual with ART b e f o r e the patient uses the product. That goes for chelation or any other aspects of the disease treated. Anything that is put on the body or into the body is tested beforehand, including all energetic materials such as color, sound, and light, frequencies, etc.
I am rid of Lyme and six co-infections; I am rid of all metal and chemical toxicities; I am rid of all pain. I never suffered a severe herxheimer. That's the result of the individualized Klinghardt protocol that may change from one month to the next for every patient. This method is applied to every form of treatment, be it heavy metal toxicity or any of the other modalities used to treat any disease.
Dr. Klinghardt's website is www.neuraltherapy.com and it is merely for generalized information. Repeated ART testing (Autonomic Response Testing) at every office visit determines the treatment from the first office visit. The best and well known chelating agent or healing remedy is not be suitable for everyone and may be totally unsuitable for a patient.
That's why there has never been a Klinghardt Protocol suitable for everyone, and I doubt very much that there ever will be one.
Some of what has been said in the above posts is incorrect. I would advise anyone not to do it by a book or information you picked up on the internet - find a seasoned practitioner who has done it successfully many times over. It is not an easy task and it can bring more harm than good if not done properly.
Good luck and may all of you be healthy soon.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
GiGi...your point is well taken. However, my point was that I worked with a very well known practitioner who was trained by Klinghardt and uses autonomic response testing, neural therapy, etc. and it turned out to be a mess. I have talked with others who have had the same experience with that particular methodology.
Still on the point I was making, as usual with Lyme and related health issues, what may work for one person may not be appropriate for another.
I'm glad you are well and I don't discount energetic methods. It just so happens that it doesn't always work for everyone. It seems to be very dependant on the practitioner and how they work with the individual nature of the patient.
posted
BTW, I'm also open to being wrong, and if any of the information I previously posted is incorrect, please let me know exactly what is wrong, both for me and others.
Posts: 120 | Registered: Jun 2002
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