I knew meprone was used for babs, but not Zithromax. I used that previously for Lyme and it trashed my guts at 250mg. I needed 600mg per day but just couldn't do it. I also did 3gm of amoxicillian with the Zith.

Is it the specific combo of Zith/meprone that works for babs, meaning that my past Zithromas didn't help babs?

Also, is your artemesinin 300 mg 2x day equal in someway to the wormwood tincture I'm taking?

Lastly, I hear people doing this treatment 6-8 months and they aren't sure if they got it or not. Are there no guarantees on babesia either?

Final last things...what tests are done for babesia?

Zith alone will not work on babs.

Artemisinin is a highly concentrated formulation of the known antimalarial (antibabesial) active ingrediant found in Sweet Wormwood (Artemisia annua). Artemesinin has 300 times the concentration of Qinghaosu than an equivalent amount of artemisia annua.

No guarantees. Artemisinin seems to greatly increase the kill rate. Our LLMD thinks 6 mo min, probably longer for long-term cases. There are other tx options -- Riamet, a European drug, and Lariam, which is nasty. And others.

Igenex has several tests -- see their page at http://www.igenex.com. FISH is said to be the most sensitive, but is still considered experimental and insurance won't pay. PCR is the most definitive, but you're pretty lucky to actually find a babs fragment. Our insurance (Premera) only paid $49 of a combined LD/babs $300 test, anyway.

Depends. I felt truly lousy the first three months, then much better. A lot of people have a very hard time with zith -- I didn't this time, although I have before. I think I may have killed off enough Bb that there wasnt the dieoff in the GI tract that I had before.

After the first 2.5 months of tx, I started taking several supplements that I have never used altogether before -- NAC, very low dose (5 mg) cortef, niacinamide, mg, plus EDTA for heavy metals chelation. They really seem to be helping.

It gave me insta headache and vertigo, and made me very anxious. Lets not forget that this morning, I still have vertigo and feel very odd in my head. Ah and tons of muscle pain and muscle fatigue.

Welp, gotta do what I gotta do.

The petechia- I have those also. Mine started ten years ago when I was in the ER for "panic attacks" . There was a whole rash of them on my elbow all connected together.

ER doc told me it was from bathing too hot.

Over the years (and before becoming sick with neuro crap) I would start to get this really odd bright kinda dark red freckles that would come up.

I have them all over the place now. They are not *together* just one here and one there, but I have always wondered what they were- and kept thinking *oh, from taking hot baths*

I want to find that ER doc and donate blood to him.

If petechia is babs, and I have babs, I have had it since I was 17 ( now 27) oh how easy that will be to treat.

Mean is the word. It does go away, but it gets pretty bad.

I've been through several LD "cures" and relapses; finally, after almost 4 mo. on the babs tx I feel significantly different (and better) than I ever have before.

Yep, I have to go up to two tsp per day this month. (sometime) ;o)

Every abx (or mepron) that I take has a habit of nailing the crap out of my neuro symptoms, so Im taking it slow.

About motivation. What is this symptom:

I can sit around all darn day and feel pretty good , even almost normal, but if I get up to do anything, say walk up a few blocks or walk around for long hauls in a store,

I get REALLY sick with headache, neckache and vertigo.

Does my lyme/babs really know when Im up versus just sitting down? Its very frustrating! If I could kick the enivitable

cant get around crap, I think I would be doing at least 90 percent better and not 60.

It may be vascular in nature, I dont know.... but im just intolerant to getting up and around.

SUCKS!

Glad to hear this all passes./ Thats what im hanging in there for.

The dizzyiness from it isnt fun. I had that as a major symptom for 5 months straight, so Im petrified of it.

Artemisinin is a highly concentrated formulation of the known antimalarial (antibabesial) active ingrediant found in Sweet Wormwood (Artemisia annua). Artemesinin has 300 times the concentration of Qinghaosu than an equivalent amount of artemisia annua.

I know EXACTLY what you mean about feeling ok while sitting and doing nothing.

Then, if i go to the store, i start feeling crappy and fatigue.

I showed my shrink my symptom book that i keep for my LLMD. He saw that i wrote fatigue down a lot.

He had me try Provigil to help my fatigue. I also have ADD. Anyway, it helped SO MUCH!! It gave me some energy and actually put me in a good mood.

I only use it when i know im not herxing. Because, if im feeling sick, i dont need to go around and wear myself out. I know i need to rest, stay home, and drink a lot of water.

Hope everyone is having an OK day!!

Jordan

I love my new LLMD, but he thought that two months would be enough to kill the babs. I know it takes at least four.

I had to add amoxicillin to the mix, for a possible dental infection.

I have been feeling terrible since i added the amoxi. Also, i have been taking diflucan 200mg to clear up some yeast.

Hows everyone doing?

Jordan

After 2 months on mepron, I lost my appetite -- not nausea, just never hungry. I tried to eat as much as possible, but still lost 17 pounds, which I cannot gain back on no matter how much I eat. Has this happened to others.

My LLMD told me to eat lots of fat with mepron in order to digest it. Supposedly, the body cannot absorp mepron, unless it is attached to fat.

I lost lots of weight too. I now have my appetite back.

Do you re-test? There doesnt seem to be a rule of thumb to go by.

My LLMD wants me to do IV (for neuro lyme) after the mepron. I really dont want to do this.

I know i will need to do the flagyl/zithro.

Have any of you tried the tinidazole?

Jordan

I dug down and found this one again.

Jordon asked if I take the Ceftin with the Mepron/Zith. Yes, I'm taking Mepron 1 tsp 2 x's a day, Zithromax 600mg 1 x a day, Ceftin 500mg 2 x's a day, Prevacid 30 mg 2 x's a day, artemisinin (Nutrocology) 100mg 3 x's a day.

Boy of boy. The Ceftin has added a new dimension to the mix. I'm definitely herxing a lot. I was feeling really good right before I started it. Now I've got muscle pain, stiffness, joint pain, headache, twitching, depression, frustration, sweats, confusion, tooth pain. I probably could come up with others that aren't as bothersome but are still there.

I'm trying to figure out if this is a good thing or a bad thing.

Here's something I just realized. Today is the start of my fourth four week period. Also, the 5th of August was terrible for me and that was 4 weeks ago.

It was good going back through and reading the old posts. It validated what I'm going through and made me realize that there is a reason my house is a mess.

I can really relate about the feeling fine sitting still. I went to WalMart a couple of weeks ago and part of the way through, I started feeling exhausted.

Also, I sit at work but still get really tired. It's very cold at work and I am very busy thinking about things. My chair is also a "sit up straight" type of chair. When I get home, I barely have energy to feed myself.

I wake up and can't even move but force myself anyway after an hour of thinking about it.

I'm still holding on to when I felt good and hoping to return there some day soon. That's once I've dealt with the Bart, HME and Lyme when (if) I'm done with Babs.

Oh, BTW, I'm probably going to be starting Prozac soon so I probably won't be so depressing next time. Hopefully I'll be coherent too.

Keep updating us on how you're doing. It's definitely interesting.

I'm on my fifth week of Mepron and Artemesia (and 7th week of Biaxin). The first week in August I felt really good for 3-4 days and went mad trying to catch up on all the stuff I can't usually do (seriously cleaning mostly).

But, apart from that short window of feeling good, I have been feeling unwell pretty much continuously. Not severely ill, but steadily just really unwell and malaised for lack of a better description.

I have a hard time putting my finger on what I feel. Some of the sx are familiar, others a bit different.

I feel a strange kind of tiredness quite a bit, more twitching and internal buzzing than I've had in a while. I get bouts of queasiness and nausea now, daily for the last couple of weeks, even though I eat a lot with the Mepron and take lots of fat with it also. The nausea can come on like 10 hours after I take it also - so it doesn't seem to be an immediate reaction to meds.

I have had on several occasions an old familiar awful "sick to the core" feeling, which is hard to describe. Kind of like I am about to collapse, coupled with an "I think I'm going to throw up" feeling but I never do. It's a feeling of my body trying to expel something from the very core of me - does that make ANY sense?

One year I had this for a couple of months on and off and I ended up so sick in the hospital they thought I had yellow fever or similar. I do now wonder whether it was Babs or Lyme or both doing this. I was vomiting (anything, even water), 104F, weak, sore throat, swollen glands, etc. The feeling I have now is milder, but there is a hint of thatsame feeling - which SCARES me. I am not sure if the abx are bringing this old familiar awful feeling, or the Mepron.

I've had a couple of episodes of a really sore throat with swollen glands in the last month - again, something I haven't had for a couple of years.

I still have nightsweats, on and off off-balance feeling, like I'm walking on a waterbed, on/off blurred vision and generally feel just "off".

Now I also wanted to ask other Mepron users - are you avoiding Zinc? It was brought to my attention that taking Zinc is contraindicated with Mepron. My multivitamin has Zinc in it and I am not sure I am suffering ill effects (unless that's why I feel ill most of the time).

Or is the Zinc problem that it stops the Mepron working?

Does anyone know? There were a few other substances which were contraindicated with Mepron, but I can't find them now. (supplements mostly I think).

CoQ10 is contraindicated with Mepron. I haven't found any other supplements that were specifically contraindicated with it, including zinc. Zinc and mag, and electolytes in general, are often contraindicated with other oral abx because they interfere with absorption.

I'm sorry to hear you feel so lousy. I felt pretty terrible the first 3 months of Mepron; not sure if it's the same thing you're experiencing.

Common adverse effects of mepron:
Nausea or vomiting. Small frequent meals, frequent mouth care, sucking hard candy, or chewing gum may help.
Headache. Mild pain medicine may help.
Rash.
Inability to sleep.
Fever.
Diarrhea.
Cough.

Do you know if the Iron is also bad to take with Artemesia then?

I wish my LLMD would have given some indication of these things than me being weeks into it and finding out that I need to avoid other stuff than CoQ10 with it (that one I did know about). Even the instruction/information slip that came with the Mepron doesn't say anything about any contraindications, and the Clarithromycin box does not mention it either.

You have pretty much summed up how I feel on Mepron. I felt the dizzyness, nausea, blurred vision, general bad feeling before taking Mepron as well. My first few days on Mepron I felt almost human - no brain fog, no dizzyness, I could drive. After a while the generally unwell feelings that you describe came back.

I have been on Mepron steadily for 6 months now. Each month the herxes seem to be lessening in severity. Also, the fevers have gone away. I still have an underlying feeling of being ill, mostly like nauseas from a really rocky boat ride.

I was taking Artemisinin (low dose) with the Mepron for 5 months. I took a break because I read that you should take a break from Art. The night sweats returned. So, after a one month break my MD added the Art. back into the mix.

I will say that I do get several days in a row now that I can function really well. Naturally, I overdo it on the good days. So, I am sticking with the Mepron because I see glimpses of relief. My Dr. says it takes a long time with Mepron. He also said, "You feel lousy off the Mepron and you feel lousy on the Mepron so, let's stay with it since there are signs of it working". He has a point. If I'm going to feel crummy, I might as well endure the crummy feeling while doing something to fight the bugs.

Are you also taking a macrolide? I took Zithromax for 5 months with the Mepron. My Dr. and I decided to stop the Zith because it was destroying my GI system. I think much of the crummy feeling was from that. Contrary to the animal studies that say otherwise, I am improving on the Mepron sans a macrolide. I must be in that 20% group.

I am on Bicillin IM as well.

Sorry this is so long winded. I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in the way you are feeling on Mepron. You have described my symptoms to a tee. Hang in there. I think it will get better.

I'm partly into my 5th month, and feeling better and better. Still tired, but not as bad, brainfog hugely reduced, not irritable, hardly any headache. The insomnia is relentless on the mepon, though.

The hubby is still feeling fairly low, but he's definitely much better. Headaches still bad for him, fatigue is still pretty intense, still achey -- but I see such a big change in his clear-headedness (much improved) and he's pretty much back to his old sweet self personality wise.

Because he's been physically still pretty miserable, I saw the positive changes in him before he did. So check in with whomever knows you best -- they might see improvements that you don't notice.

Is your husband going to continue the Mepron/Zith and then add in Cipro or Levaquin for Bart?

That might be a good next-step for me as well. Just wondering if that's a feasible option.

If not, is he going to stop the Mepron/Zith and start some other tx?

It sounds like we're all having somewhat similar reactions with Mepron.

I think I'm going to ask to be switched to Biaxin instead of Zith when I see my LLMD. I think the Zith is causing a lot of my troubles. I do pretty well on Biaxin.

Also, I posted about trying prozac for depression. I'm actually going to hold off on that and try SAM-e first. It sounds like it might be a better option.

Good luck everyone,

Just saw the dr. last week and finishing my 6th bottle of mepron w/ the zith, ceftin and artemisinin. Mepron didn't effect me as much as adding in the Ceftin in May and then in July when my zithromax went from 600mg. once a day to 500mg 2x a day...HOLY COW!! I had a 10 day herx, the worst since starting in March/April. Now I've gone back to only 500 a day, my ears were ringing terribly.

Dr. recommended 6-8 months of babs treatment. After finishing Mepron I will continue zith and ceftin for 14 days, and then switch to ceftin, minocyn, and continue artemisinin. If I crash when going off mepron and zith I'm to call immediately.

I have now lost 16 lbs. The first 10 went really quick. But I just lost 5 more since July and I have no idea...doing the Atkins diet and all but I eat as much as I can. Don't have energy to do anything after getting home from work....Insomnia still a MAJOR ISSUE....Overall pain is all but gone except when I herx then it returns.

Husband just diagnosed with lyme and being tested for co-infections. He does not appear to have babs, but we'll see.

Take care!!

I read through most of thread here, and I can't figure out if the severe reactions many of you talk about is due to the drugs or if its due to Babs die off (or Bb die off)?

I also read the Artemesia can be added for efficiency. I understand it's a "over-the-counter" drug. My LLMD again did not mention this drug. Should I take it?

It is always hard to tell the response to abx from die-off reactions. For me, I'm very sure that the diarrhea and some of the fatigue and insomnia are mostly to do with the mepron; everything else-- the headaches, anger, etc -- are from babesia and LD die off.

Trout

Saw my LLMD last week.

I complained about Zithromax getting to my stomach and settled for a rx for 1 250mg zith twice a day instead of 1 600mg once a day.

Picked up the script. When I got home, found out they will only allow 8 pills at $20 per filling. That's $20 every 4 days!

I've been getting 30 600mg zithromax for $20 for 3 refills so far.

I have one more refill on my 600's. I hope they don't pull the same thing with that rx.

In the meantime, I have 2 more bottles of Mepron to go and I'm supposed to continue taking zith beyond finishing the mepron.

I'll see how the filling of my zith script ends up. I might have to change over to Biaxin.

The next thing we will treat is my Ehrlichia.

My herxing has been much more frequent these days. I'll have a 6-10 day neuro herx then have a couple of days off and slide right in to a 6-10 day physical herx. A short time after that, severe fatigue sets in for 4-6 days.

The cure really does seem worse than the cause a lot of the time.

I've added SAM-e in to my daily dosing. We'll see what happens when the next neuro stuff starts (or maybe it won't - fingers crossed).

I hope to heck I can be a normal person again sometime. I hope to heck that we can ALL go back to being our normal selves sometime soon.

Best Wishes,

Corgilla

I just added the extra third dose for the first time today and I don't know if it's co-incidence but I am now sooooo tired I feel like I'm in a half-dream state.

I just finished Mepron today, been on it since July.

quote:

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Originally posted by dontlikeliver:
How is are all the Mepron buddies, old and new, doing?

I just finished Mepron today, been on it since July.

DLL

---

Still have 2 or 3 questionable days per week but, am able to work about 6 hours each day.

Hubby finished his mepron/zith/art tx the first week in January 2005, after 10 months. Doing well, but had sweats last night -- not sure if it was a babs sweat or not. Has me a little worried. He's still taking art, and is about to go on the same regimen as me for "final" (I hope I hope) bug mop up.

It has kind of killed my appetite, but not due to nausea, thank goodness. So I am taking it as a blessing and hoping I lose some more weight. Between this and my steady low carb drop, I may see my goal weight again.

I'm almost afraid to hope, but my headaches have been very subdued, and I've even been able to lower the dose of my pain meds. Yeah!!!

Oh, and I'm another seronegative Babesia treater who is finally seeing some improvement after going after the Babesia. So glad to hear that it sounds worth doing.

I did tell my LLMD my nightsweats were worse at my last visit and he said to just take 3 more months at an increased dose and then stop - so that's what I've done.

Another thing I don't seem to get (fingers crossed) anymore is the feeling of my lungs being hot and inflamed, sometimes with cough.

It's really depressing to read how bad everyone feels on mepron. The killer is that it takes forever without much improvement.

Constant fatigue and weight loss, poor appetite, increased night sweats, insomnia, rashes, and other sx.

Has anyone in these posts actually gotten rid of babs using mepron in a reasonable amount of time?