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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » probiotics/doxy&nausea

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Author Topic: probiotics/doxy&nausea
Dawn
Junior Member
Member # 5810

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I was just reading about probiotics and antibiotics and it suggested taking probiotics 2 to 3 days prior to finishing antibiotic treatment, because you may be wasting the product while taking antibiotics being that the good bacteria would be killed along with the bad bacteria. So, I am wondering about that.
Also, anything I can do to alleviate the nausea when taking doxy. I am on day 5 at 400mg.(200 twice a day) and today I got so nauseous, I vomitted 1/2 hour after taking it. Should it be every 12 hours or can the time inbetween vary as long as I am getting in 400mg?

Posts: 9 | From New York State | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lpkayak
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i'm not your doc-but i take my doxy 4 times a day(100 each)-maybe that would help. also-a long time ago when i was taking huge doses of oral abx i learned to take my acidolphilis in the middle of the night-i keep it in a cooler by my bed-and take it as far away from all food and abx as possible-i always get up at least once at night so it isn't hard
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riversinger
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Dawn,

Are you taking your doxy with food? Most people can't tolerate it, especially in the beginning, unless they take it with a meal.

Later, once your body adjusts some, you won't need to eat so much with it. Just be sure to avoid dairy products or supplements with minerals in them for two hours before and after taking it.

The recommendations you saw about taking probiotics probably referred to a more usual course of ten days of antibiotics. Then the suggestion makes sense.

With longer courses of antibiotics as they are given for Lyme, you can't afford to wait till you are almost done. Yes, the antibiotics will be kill the probiotics, but if you don't keep repelnishing them, you run the risk of serious problems.

Take the probiotics two hours after you take your antibiotics, so they can hang out in your gut for the longest time possible before your next dose of antibiotics.

As far as taking the doses 12 hours apart, the closer to that time frame the better. You want to try to keep the blood levels as even as possible.

Four times a day might work, as lpkayak is doing, but then it gets much more complicated managing dairy, probiotics, and other supplements around the dose of doxy.


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smiles
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Dawn,

I too got sick on doxy - sorry to hear you're having problems. Splitting it up like lpkayak is good idea.

Another option, take it in the MIDDLE of your meal - generally breakfast and dinner.

I then take supplements (including probiotics) at lunch and then right before bed (which is usually about 3-4 hours after dinner).

Keep us posted on your progress.


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Curley911
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Hi Dawn, Glad to see you found us and are getting treatment. Below is an excerpt from ILADS.org (International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society). If I read your post correctly, you are on a short course of antibiotics. According to this information below you might want to reconsider and/or be very, very vigilent about a replapse.

I take ginger with my doxy for nausea. I buy it at the health food store and it works well for me. Otherwise, YES, take doxy with food. The main point is to not take it with dairy, ie: a big glass of milk. Even taking just half a banana can offset the nausea.

As for the acidophillus, my LLMD said take it 2 hours away from my antibiotics. It's that simple. I get up, make a breakfast drink, take my supplements along w/my acididophollus; two hours later my antibiotics. By lunch it's 2 hours later etc. Of course this way I am on an empty stomach and maybe you can do this later.

Good luck. I hope the info below helps!


Basic Information*

Lyme disease is prevalent across the United States. Ticks do not know geographic boundaries. A patient's county of residence does not accurately reflect their total Lyme disease risk, since people travel, pets travel, and ticks travel. This creates a dynamic situation with many opportunities for exposure for each individual.

Lyme disease is a clinical diagnosis. Spirochetal infection of multiple organ systems causes a wide range of symptoms. Familiarity with its varied presentations is key to recognizing disseminated Lyme disease. Case reports in the medical literature document its protean manifestations.

Fewer than 50% of patients with Lyme disease recall a tick bite. In some studies this number is as low as 15% in culture proven Lyme borrelial infection.

Fewer than 50% of patients with Lyme disease recall any rash. Although the bull's eye presentation is considered classic, it is not the most common dermatologic manifestation of early-localized Lyme infection. Atypical forms of this rash are seen far more commonly. It is important to know that the Erythema Migrans rash is pathognomonic of Lyme disease and requires no further verification prior to starting 6 weeks of antibiotic therapy. Shorter treatment courses have resulted in upwards of a 40% relapse rate.

The CDC surveillance criteria were devised to track a narrow band of cases for epidemiologic change and were never set up to be used as diagnostic criteria nor were they meant to define the entire scope of Lyme disease. This is stated in the 3/25/91 NIH report.

The ELISA test is unreliable, and misses 35% of culture proven Lyme (only 65% sensitivity!) and is unacceptable as the first step of a two step screening protocol. (By definition a screening test should have 95% sensitivity.)

Of patients with acute culture proven Lyme disease, 20-30% remain seronegative on serial Western Blot sampling. Antibody titers also appear to decline over time; thus, the IgG Western Blot is even less sensitive in detecting chronic Lyme infection yet the IgM Western Blot may work. For "epidemiological purposes" the CDC eliminated from the Western Blot analysis the reading of bands 31 and 34. These bands are so specific to Borrelia burgdorferi that they have been chosen for vaccine development. However, for patients not vaccinated for Lyme, a positive 31 or 34 band is highly indicative of Borrelia burgdorferi exposure.

When used as a part of a diagnostic evaluation for Lyme disease, the Western Blot should be performed by a laboratory that reads and reports on all 16 bands as part of their routine comprehensive analysis. Laboratories (such as SmithKline) that use FDA approved kits (for instance, Mardex's Marblot) are restricted from reporting all of the bands, as they must abide by the rules of the manufacturer. These rules are set up in accordance with the CDCs surveillance criteria. and increase the risk of false negative results. These kits may be OK for surveillance purposes, but offer too scanty of an analysis to be useful in patient management.

A preponderance of evidence indicates that active ongoing spirochetal infection is the cause of the persistent symptoms in chronic Lyme disease.

There has never in the history of this illness been one study that proves even in the simplest way that 30 days of antibiotic treatment cures Lyme disease. However there is a plethora of documentation in the US and European medical literature demonstrating histologically and in culture that short courses of antibiotic treatment fail to eradicate the Lyme spirochete.

An uncomplicated case of chronic Lyme disease requires an average of 6-12 months of high dose antibiotic therapy. The return of symptoms and evidence of the continued presence of Borrelia burgdorferi indicates the need for further treatment. The very real consequences of untreated chronic persistent Lyme infection far outweigh the potential consequences of long term antibiotic therapy.

Many patients with Lyme disease require treatment for 1-4 years, or until the patient is symptom free. Relapses occur and maintenance antibiotics may be required. There are no tests available to assure us whether the organism is eradicated or the patient is cured.

There are 5 subspecies of Borrelia burgdorferi, over 100 strains in the US, and 300 strains worldwide. This diversity is thought to contribute to Borrelia burgdorferi's antigenic variability and its various antibiotic resistances.

Antibody titers for Babesia microti, HGE, HME (other tick transmitted diseases) should be performed. The presence of co-infection points to probable Lyme infection, and when left untreated increases morbidity and complicates successful treatment of Lyme disease.

Lyme disease is the latest great imitator and should be considered in the differential diagnosis of MS, ALS, seizure and other neurologic conditions, as well as arthritis, CFS, Gulf war syndrome, ADHD, hypochondriasis, fibromyalgia, somatization disorder and patients with various difficult-to-diagnose multi-system syndromes.
* Note: The information presented here will be updated as research reveals new data.


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