LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Cyst form-ideas?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Cyst form-ideas?
Tunes
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 2946

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Tunes     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Does anyone have any ideas for treating cyst form without flagyl or tinidazole? It seems I am unable to tolerate either.

Thank you!


Posts: 183 | From wheaton, il | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Marnie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Get your body more alkaline.

Bb dives for cover in the presence of acids.

Note the words "starvation media" below:

Cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato: induction, development, and the role of RpoS.
Murgia R, Piazzetta C, Cinco M.
Dipartimento di Scienze Biomediche, sez. Microbiologia, Universita degli Studi di Trieste, Trieste, Italy. [email protected]

It has been demonstrated recently that cells of Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato, the etiological agent of Lyme disease, transform from mobile spirochetes into nonmotile cystic forms in the presence of certain unfavourable conditions, and that cystic forms are able to reconvert to vegetative spirochetes in vitro and in vivo.

The purpose of this study was to investigate the kinetics of conversion of borreliae to cysts in different stress conditions such as starvation media or the presence of different antibiotics.

Using the same experimental conditions we also investigated the possible role in cyst formation of RpoS, an alternative sigma factor that controls a regulon in response to starvation and transition to stationary phase.

We observed that beta-lactams penicillin G and ceftriaxone, the antibiotics of choice in Lyme borreliosis treatment, favoured the production of cysts ***when used with serum-depleted BSK medium.

In contrast, we observed a low level of cyst formation in the presence of macrolides and tetracyclines. In order to elucidate the role of the rpoS gene in cyst formation we analyzed the reaction of the rpoS mutant strain in comparison with its wild-type in different conditions.

Under the same stimuli, both the wild-type borrelia and the rpoS knock-out isogenic strain produced cystic forms with similar kinetics, thus excluding the participation of the gene in this phenomenon.

Our findings suggest that cyst formation is mainly due to a physical-chemical rearrangement of the outer membrane of Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato leading to membrane fusion and controlled by different regulation mechanisms.
_______________

One cyst is one too many in my opinion.

Starvation media refers to a growth medium on which the bacteria is grown. Normally the growth media contains minerals...

Without enough Ca and Mg...this damages our OWN ANTIBODIES to specifically fight this disease (Fab portion)- documented. Restoring these minerals, also restores the "health" of our OWN antibodies.

Flagyl and Tinidazole are notorious for causing a major yeast problem. Add yet another prescription...

P.S. I used to live in St. Charles. Know Wheaton well. You have Rife therapy nearby...

[This message has been edited by Marnie (edited 24 June 2004).]


Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117

Icon 1 posted      Profile for treepatrol     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You can tolerate it its tough at first but the better you get the less the other problems.
Posts: 10564 | From PA Where the Creeks are Red | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lenny777
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 5452

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lenny777     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Marnie:
Get your body more alkaline.


I'll be honest most of these medical articles go right over my head...so I apologize if this is a dumb question. How do you get your body more alkaline?


Posts: 635 | From Texas | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dmcbrayer
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 5296

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dmcbrayer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lenny777:
How do you get your body more alkaline?

eating ripe, fresh fruit

vegetable juicing:
carrot juice: 50% (or a carrot/beet juice mixture)
green leafy veggies (30-50%) (collards, kale, spinach, parsley, romaine lettuce)
other veggies: celery, cucumbers, tomatos, broccoli, cauliflower.

drinking water mixed with a little lemon or lime juice.

foods to avoid: meat, especially pork and beef

DMC


Posts: 221 | From fort smith, arkansas, usa | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lenny777
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 5452

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lenny777     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dmcbrayer:
eating ripe, fresh fruit

vegetable juicing:
carrot juice: 50% (or a carrot/beet juice mixture)
green leafy veggies (30-50%) (collards, kale, spinach, parsley, romaine lettuce)
other veggies: celery, cucumbers, tomatos, broccoli, cauliflower.

drinking water mixed with a little lemon or lime juice.

foods to avoid: meat, especially pork and beef

DMC


I tried to post this once but I disappeared so I apologize if it shows up twice.

I read on a post from January, I think, that said Goldenseal was thought to have some affect on cysts. They weren't claiming some medical breakthrough they had just heard this somewhere and were throwing it out for discussion. Any thoughts or info on Goldenseal?

P.S. DMC, you listed everything I hate to eat. I do like the fruits and I don't think I have a yeast problem so I'll dig into those.

[This message has been edited by Lenny777 (edited 24 June 2004).]


Posts: 635 | From Texas | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
John292
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 4628

Icon 1 posted      Profile for John292     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Alkaline means basic.
This is a lower Ph value and it's opposite of acidic.
There Ph strips available in health food stores to check saliva.

I talked to my LLMD about cystic forms.. He says do not worry about them.

All the research papers todate can't prove they exist in the body.
They only show up in the lab dish.
Gosh I hope he is correct.

He also says that Flagyl was presented in a paper and then retracted by the auothers because it did do what it said.
Gosh I hope this correct too.


Posts: 182 | From Northern, NJ, USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
panther
Member
Member # 5348

Icon 1 posted      Profile for panther     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The cystic form of lyme may only have been seen in a lab dish, but this is exactly the same logic used by Steere and others to justify their own statements about the efficacy of abx treatment. These antibiotic regimens (2-4 weeks) are based on what they have seen in a lab dish, not on a thorough inspection of infected tissue post-treatment, which almost every researcher seems to be afraid to invest time in (and money) much to our detriment. Actually, since the paper cited above emphasized the cyst-inducing properties of rocephin, major questions about the scientific abilities and honesty of Steere and his pals are raised. Steere is not an intelligent or creative man; he took seven years post-fellowship to pass his boards in rheumatology. In the early 80's, he made many mistakes, including claiming that LD did not respond at all to antibiotics.

quote:
Originally posted by John292:
Alkaline means basic.
This is a lower Ph value and it's opposite of acidic.
There Ph strips available in health food stores to check saliva.

I talked to my LLMD about cystic forms.. He says do not worry about them.

All the research papers todate can't prove they exist in the body.
They only show up in the lab dish.
Gosh I hope he is correct.

He also says that Flagyl was presented in a paper and then retracted by the auothers because it did do what it said.
Gosh I hope this correct too.



Posts: 45 | From Stillwater, OK, USA | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dmcbrayer
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 5296

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dmcbrayer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lenny777:
Any thoughts or info on Goldenseal?

[This message has been edited by Lenny777 (edited 24 June 2004).]


Yes, I have heard that goldenseal is a good natural antibiotic. I have made goldenseal tea in the past. Tried it before I even knew that I had lyme. And I do recall that it made me feel really strange; so I possibly could have been having a herx with it. To make the tea, bring 1 pint of water to a boil, add 1 teaspoon of goldenseal (also, you can add 1/4 teaspoon of myrrh with this), and steep for 20-30 minutes, then strain off the liquid. BE CAREFUL WITH THIS! THIS STUFF IS NASTY! I never Take more than 1 tablespoon at at time. I cannot remember the daily dosage, but I do know that it's not good to use goldenseal for long periods of time. You might experiment with 1 tablespoon a day, and work your way up to whatever you can handle, but I would not use it for more than 2 weeks at a time.

DMC


Posts: 221 | From fort smith, arkansas, usa | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lenny777
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 5452

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lenny777     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was thinking of ordering the goldenseal capsules. I think you get like 90 for $12. I can handle the pills better than a nasty tasting tea.
I've read you shouldn't be on it for long stretches for I thought about one week on one week off or something like that.

Posts: 635 | From Texas | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Marnie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Need a little pH clarification, information.

GENERAL INFORMATION
The pH of a solution is an indication of the hydrogen ion concentration, or more simply, whether the solution is acidic or alkaline (basic).

The numerical range of pH values is from 0 (highly acidic) to 14 (highly alkaline).

A pH equal to 7 represents a neutral solution; it is neither acidic nor basic.
http://www.petsforum.com/novalek/kpd43.htm

pH. The pH is a measure of how acidic or alkaline (basic) the urine is. A urine pH of 4 is strongly acidic, 7 is neutral (neither acidic nor alkaline), and 9 is strongly alkaline.

Sometimes the pH of the urine may be adjusted by certain types of treatment. For example, efforts may be made to keep urine either acidic or alkaline to prevent formation of certain types of kidney stones.
http://www.online-ambulance.com/medical%20tests/Urine%20Test.htm

Food can be divided into alkaline and acidic. Meat, liquor, coffee, processed foods and preservatives are acidic, and much of today's foods fall into this category.

If we consume too much acidic food our bodies become acidic which leads to many problems, including low natural resistance to sickness, low metabolism, constipation, tenseness, stress, fatigue and many more ailments.

Many middle-aged and older people suffer from physical disorders such as high blood pressure, diabetes, arthritis, kidney and liver disorders just to name a few. These are a result of accumulated harmful drinking and eating habits which gradually change the body condition to acidic.
http://www.greatwaterco.com/h-ionic.phtml

Shifting Your pH Toward Alkaline...

This chart is for those trying to "adjust" their body pH. The pH scale is from 0 to 14, with numbers below 7 acidic (low on oxygen) and numbers above 7 alkaline. An acidic body is a sickness magnet.
http://www.essense-of-life.com/info/foodchart.htm

One of the most important processes in your body is the process by which the pH balance is maintained. Body pH measures the number of hydrogen ions in solution within the body.

The pH scale ranges from 0-14 with <6.4 acidic and >6.4 alkaline for body fluid, not including blood which is a normal 7.3 pH.

An acidic pH has a low ability to attract hydrogen ions, while an alkaline solution has a high ability to attract hydrogen ions. "p" stands for potential and "H" stands for hydrogen; henceforth, the potential of the body to attract hydrogen ions to secure balance and health.

Each liquid solution in the body has its proper pH. It is important, and fun, to test your body pH periodically to check for any imbalances that might create an environment for disease.

Your body pH is something you must not ignore if you wish to maintain perfect health, regain lost immunity, or maintain proper weight. The farther away from perfect balance pH travels, the more serious health problems may develop and the more difficult it may be to maintain proper weight.

You should maintain a pH of 6.4 for urine and saliva in order to maintain maximum energy from the foods you eat. Any deviation from that reading, either higher or lower, can create a sharp energy loss, emotional patterns, and a depressed immune system. Blood pH is different from the pH of water fluids within body tissues.

Blood pH is ideally 7.3 as the bloodstream does not have, nor should have, the same body acids and waste by-products that course through the water conduits of the body. The perfect pH for a body of fresh water such as an aquarium or lake is 7.0.

When the body is too acidic as a result of acid forming foods, high fat, mucus forming foods, or toxic chemical food residues, disease and infections proliferate. This is especially true in cases of arthritis and rheumatic situations.

The human body should be slightly alkaline in order to build an alkaline reserve for acid-forming conditions such as stress, lack of exercise, or poor dietary habits. If your body pH is either too acidic or too alkaline, you can adjust your pH to normal readings through the foods you eat at each meal.

Here are some recommendations for foods that are alkaline and acidic. Acid-forming examples: Meats Fish Poultry Eggs Most dairy (Milk is neutral in acid/alkaline but high in mucus-forming attributes such as fat.)

Most grains and legumes (Millet and roasted buckwheat are slightly alkalizing. Soy and lima beans are extremely alkalizing.)

Refined sugars Drugs Food chemicals Alkaline-producing examples: Fruits Vegetables Sprouts Cereal grasses Herbs The body's acid/alkaline balance can be changed by simple practices such as: * Mildly soaking acid-forming foods such as whole grains and legumes before cooking starts the alkalizing sprouting process. *

Thoroughly chewing complex carbohydrates such as grains, vegetables, and legumes in order to mix them with salvia, a fluid that begins the digestive process. *

Do not drink while eating, as this washes away the digestive process from beginning within the mouth. The correct ratio of acid and alkaline forming foods is difficult to know since the balance is altered by chewing, food preparation, individual lifestyle, genetics, exercise, and individual mental outlook.

However, those prone to infections, viruses, excess mucus problems, and other toxic acidic conditions generally need to increase their alkaline diet.

I have assembled a pH test kit that includes a plentiful roll of pH test strips in a handy plastic container, a chart to record your pH over a ten-day period, and my 75-25 Eating Plan to help with selecting the right pH balanced foods and the correct proportions of alkaline vs. acidic food choices.

You can eat both acidic and alkaline foods at each meal, but keep the proportions as close as possible to the 75-25 percentages. A good rule-of-thumb is to eat 75 percent raw or steamed foods to 25 percent cooked foods at each meal.

This secures your alkaline foods are in a higher percentage than the acidic foods, and the raw foods have not lost their nutrients and enzymes to cooking.

For example: It's okay to have a hamburger (if you eat meat, that is) but have it on a whole grain bun with lots of lettuce, tomatoes, and pickles. Then, forgo the French fries and have a salad, cole slaw, or red beans and rice as a side dish.

There you go - a perfectly balanced 75-25 meal. You can read more information about pH balancing and Dr. Hull's pH Balance Test Kit by visiting the link below:
http://www.janethull.com/ph-balance-testing/index.php
http://www.naturalhealthweb.com/articles/hull3.html



Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tunes
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 2946

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Tunes     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks to all of you for your helpful replies!

Marnie, your knowledge and input has helped me so much over the years. A special thanks to you! How is your sister feeling?

Take care!


Posts: 183 | From wheaton, il | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code� is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.