I'm used to dealing with lots of symptoms, but this one I wondered if anyone can help me figure out what it could be..

Since my neighbor recently went into the hospital with total heart block from what we later pinpointed as a good dose of our neighborhood strain of Lyme, Bart, and Babesia, I figured I ought to ask a couple of questions.

It'a new thing, happening all day, and feels like heart pain, but is not where my heart is, is to the right of it. It's pretty comstant, and worse when taking a deep breath, or lieing down, or stretching.

It isn't a pulsing pain, more of a concentrated severe soreness inside chest. I was once told by my co-infections Doc that Mycoplasma can cause what feels like heart pain, but is actually tightness in the chest wall. Then again, Lyme or Bartonella or Babesia (I have all four) can effect the heart as well.

Anyone have this and know what it could possibly be?

I even responded to the heart meds in the ambulance. I was very uncomfortable and the pain progressed all day. I eventually could not lay down.

I had been shoveling snow but had taken pain and acid reflux meds. Trying to cover all bases. Nothing worked. Then I started to worry. Didn't think God would be able to fill my shoes with health care for my daughter so when the sweats broke out, I even asked for a repreive.

It got so severe that my husband called the ambulance..I had pulled an inner chest muscle that is between the ribs and the heart. Since then I know of a friend that was diagnosed with a similiar problem but on the right side..

The ambulance ride was horrible. Funny now looking back..It was in the middle of a bad snow storm. I could not breathe when I sat down so I made them let me sit up. There were cars behind us. Then it hit me that they were going to make me strip from the waist up for the EKG. I was out and flopping for all to see. I remember telling one of the techs, who is a perv, that if he ever tells anyone he say my boobs,that I would kill him.

Good luck and hope you don't have to go to the hospital. lymemomtooo

ps..but don't fool around with it..Get it checked out.

I am the poster girl for chest pain. My LLMD told me that chest pain is a common Lyme symptom, because the Lyme bugs are in the nerve roots in the spine, and they can irritate nerves that wrap around the rib cage.

It can be on either side. The nerve is inflamed all around the rib cage, but the nerve endings to the left or right of your sternum can be particularly inflamed.

It will also make the surrounding ribs and soft tissue sore; and then sometimes a sharp pain where the nerve ends.

He even told me I might be afraid I was having a heart attack; but it was actually from the nerve.

Of course if there is any chance there is cardiac involvement, get it checked out properly!

But I was reassured by how familiar the LLMD was with chest pain, and in fact how common a Lyme symptom it is.

My one piece of advice: don't get nerve block injections for that pain. I did, and it made the pain worse. Now I need to control it with narcotic pain meds.

I also noticed that it would flare and decrease with the vicissitudes of the illness as a whole.

My husband had the same symptoms as you & he ended up in the ER for left-sided lung pleurisy. (This can involve l or both lungs.)

They gave him Indomethacin which is anti-inflammatory, & will tear up your stomach. Be careful. And, he got Vicodin for pain.

Thank God they didn't try to give him steroids; I wasn't ready to fight them off on that---but we would have, if necessary.

My husband had chest pain & it hurt when he breathed in. (That's the signal for pleurisy).

On the way to the hospital his breathing was getting more difficult & painful; we thought it was a heart attack???

They did a heart work-up on him & his heart was fine & x-rayed the lungs. The DOCS guessed it was pleurisy & gave him l Indomethacin to see if he got better in the ER.

It took 2 hours to see any improvement. (He could not lie down earlier because if he did he couldn't breathe.) It was that bad & scary.

We let him go too long before going to the ER.

We stayed in ER until breathing was better & got to leave. Then the DOC decided it was indeed pleurisy. The ER nurse was very kind to take time to explain that he's seen pleurisy knock people flat out/debilitate them temporarily.

Rest & anti-inflammatories are their treatment. My husband worked as quickly as possible to go down to Motrin because the Indomethacin (which is an old timey arthritis drug) is hard on the tummy & his Lyme is worse there.

From my research, this can definitely be Lyme related. Do whatever you need to do.

When you've been treated, you might try some potent aloe vera to lubricate that area. What about some hyaluronic acid capsules for lubrication -----just a thought.

I've got to run, but I'll check the post in a little while.

This is extremely painful, so take care.
Jan

[This message has been edited by RECIPEGIRL (edited 09 August 2004).]

Thank you for all of the feedback, though, now I do have things to consider and sort of rule out/rule in.

COL..your gall bladder made it hurt up near your sternum?

LymeMomtoo..oweeee!..that doesn't sound fun. I haven't done anything strenuous like that, but I will try and discern if it is possibly a muscle pull.

I do hope I'm not flashing any paramedics anytime soon..I'm sorry you had to take a ride with a perv..but I like what you said to him!!

Henson..this is very interesting and gives me something to look into. I had no idea the spine could have a wrap around effect on the nerves to the chest wall. This is possible I think in this case, also could be Bartonella or Mycoplasma.

RecipeGirl..This souns like a possibility, too. Your husbands experience sounds similar.

I will check into that one, too. I do have the Indomethacin here..my tummy is made of iron (my LLMD often says)..and while I should find out what this is exactly, it's good to know I have a possible pain reliever here in my cubby.

I think instinctively it is Lyme related, if it is pleurisy..I have recently changed my therapies.

You said the Docs guessed after the X-ray..is it something they can't test for or see on film?

Just wondering in case I have to go in and ask about it.

Thank you all very much,

Mo

They didn't want to get into causes because as you know, ERs don't do that!!! (HA! Can you believe it?)

In retrospect, the DOC was waiting to see if my husband responded to the Indomethacin before confirming the diagnosis & dismissing him.

So you see, it took us a while to figure it out that the DOC was actually making a guess, but a correct one.

I'm sure if a PCP did a 48-hour blood culture & the cause was bacterial, it would show up on your culture.

If it was viral, that ER DOC should have been able to decipher that from the CBC---I think.

(The reason I say that is that my son's PCP would always run a blood test in office to see if his sore throats were of viral origin & of course the Quick Strep Test.) The PCP would come back & say----oh, it's just viral.

Pre-lyme diagnosis, I had just a hint of what felt like pleurisy for a couple of days. The DOC ran a blood test/culture for something else.

The result showed "low/mild" mycoplasma pneumoniae. I was prescribed Levaquin.

Anyway, my husband was acutely ill & had to have treatment immediately because he flat out couldn't breathe. It was awful.

Here's hoping you can find the root cause of this.
Take Care,
Jan

P.S. Should have told you this: After my husband was well, the pleurisy tried to come back on him if he was under stress or overtired. His father had a stroke & boom it started to come back, so we started treating it immediately.

This time we knew what it was for sure & didn't let it get bad again. BYE!

Just checking in on you. Goodness, this sounds so painful, I am so sorry!

I too hope that you and the docs can figure this one out soon! How long has it been since you have had a good cardiac work-up?

Take extra good care, OK? And remember...

WE DON'T MESS WITH CHEST PAIN!!!

Much love to ya,
M

------------------
C O L O R A D O * S U P P O R T * S Y S T E M
[email protected]

With treatment chest pains have gone away. With abx the chest pains subsided but didn't go away. Have been rifing over a year now. Have been off abx for over a year and with no chest pains.

Of course, when you have chest pain, I would still get it checked out with a physican. We have enough problems without messing around with heart attacks.

Not to mess around with. The worry is enough to cause you more problems... and cause ME problems too!!!

Please...

Check it out... and if it is NOT heart pain... let us know.

I have some suggestions after you get it checked..

Like.. lay a warm MOIST heating pad on the area for a few minutes and relax.

DON'T fall asleep though...

If it is swollen up lymph nodes along the breast bone area.. this may help. If it is a muscle thing.. this may help.

Only for a few minutes though... ok?

Please let us know how you are doing tomorrow. OK?

We do care...

When that was going on with me, I had Mag IV and learned to give it to myself IM every other day into the muscle ( 3 ml mag sulfate mixed with 2 ml procaine, so it will not hurt. It fixed it over time, but it takes a while. My husband also had a lot of it and it helps.

(no, my name is not Marnie, but that we can be depleted, that I totally agree with)

My best.

OH YEAH! And out my back, and in my shoulder blades, and in the LEFT side of my stomach. It did a doozy on me and I walked aroudn with symptoms for three years before my GP finally thought Gallbladder when the pain actually started occuring NEAR the gallbladder.

Gallbladder can cause referred pain- in different areas of the body.

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheCrimeOfLyme:
COL..your gall bladder made it hurt up near your sternum?
..............................
OH YEAH! And out my back, and in my shoulder blades, and in the LEFT side of my stomach.
Gallbladder can cause referred pain- in different areas of the body.

---

YEP! My gall bladder pain was mostly around my sternum. Hurt to breathe. Doc decided to run an EGD [scope]first, thinking it was acid reflux. That turned out pretty much OK, so on to the sonogram for GB. Yep, it was the GB.

Keep us posted, Mo...good idea to find out what it is!

When the dr. questioned me, he asked if it hurt to the right or in my shoulder or back...which is common w/ gallbladder.

The attack i had lasted about 2 hours, then subsided...but it varies in different people.

Look at all these replies! Shucks..you do still care..

I tried to ignore it, and it went away the next day, but was back worse that night.

It's just in one spot, to the right of the sternum... above my breast..on the "inside" of that area. Hurts when I breath in, when lieing down (except if I lay on the side it is on)..or if I turn or stretch.

I begrudgingly went for the heart asessment..the pain was really bad last night. No problems with the ol'ticker..everything good, nothing showing on X-ray of chest area either.

I mentioned Pleurisy and ER thought maybe, but I also could not get any useful info on TBD related causes, of course..so I just went to rule out the heart stuff and asked to go..

The thing that comes to my mind the most on it is Mycoplasma.

When I saw Doc E (the Bartonella and Myco East coast guy)..I had this same pain, but much less intense, and for months, not days..and he said Mycoplasma can effect the muscles in that area..sort of a chest wall tigtening, or even lung "cramping".

This duller version went away after a couple of months on abx's for Bart and Myco..

I've recently changed my therapies pretty drastically, and maybe this has had some effect (good or bad) on the Mycoplasma chest/lung condition.

This pain lessens allot during the day, and gets worse at night. It is also coming with a low grade fever, fatigue, and unusual, extrordinary HUNGER (which makes me hope an immune response may be a factor)I am eating like a horse, and am a comfortable kind of sleepy, three days of this and continuing, and then the pain.

I am taking ionic liquid Mg for a few months now..steady dosing thoughout the day in my drinking water..and eating Mg foods every day often.

I will explore a higher dose or IV or IM, GiGi..if this is spasms.

My best guess is that a) my immune system is kicking in as a result of what I have been doing, and working out a kink, in which case, I should see this start to subside..

or b) My Mycoplasma is totally out of control and I need to go back on those meds.

I will also check into ulcer and GB just in case..and the nerve ending possibility.

It "feels" like a steady "cramp" in the upper lung or muscle there..to me.

Thanks for all of these ideas to go on.

Mo

radiant gastro/abdominal pain......GERD can actually cause a rise in temperature...

But....I liked what everyone else said here too.

I've been going thru it since last december. Mine started - with my port - (possibly) being placed but even with it out I still have the same pain almost exactly as you describe.

I have had EVERY test imaginable and my insurance company loves me

It is most likely the tissues/muscles and/or nerves inflamed and we know that lyme likes to hit those areas and from what my llmd said - it doesn't like to let go!! I actually have felt better (sort of?) since trying to use my arms and all of my muscles - water physical therapy sort of. Seems that if I use them enough it helps move out the bad stuff but geez does it hurt in the mean time.

But like others probably said, don't mess with chest pain - call your doc!!

I also cleared allot of "gunk" following this episode, which creshendoed (word?) into a fever of a hundred and four, with concurrent front and back chest pain that grew increasingly worse with that fever.

After that, it slowly diminished, and a week later, the caughing began.

Interesting, because I see there may be a connection with some of you and some form of Mycoplasma.

The treatment with Zithromax and following response in the poster above (sorry, forgot your name) makes sense in this theory, too..with the particular strain M.pnumoniae..

Have any of you been tested for Mycoplasma, or had response with these symptoms to abx that would target Mycoplasma? Since the tests are poor, you could get some idea if you have response to macrolides (for all strains of Mycoplasma..except M.Fermentans)

M.Fermentans only responds ro tetracycline derivatives, I am on Mino (and Rifampin.)

I wonder if this chest wall tightening, pluerisy type pain is actually a co-infection with Myco.

I have had M.Fermentans documented via PCR (DNA) testing..but..it took some time and multiple tests to find it. It was there for over a year undetected, and as I said, I had MANY negative tests run before we "caught" it.

Something for all to consider, IMO.

You're the one I was referring to..
Um..my LLMD is very interested in this one, though he hasn't begun to use it yet, but says he will if I like what I find.

I have only found a couple of papers, I have been distracted with allot of other stuff in preparing an IEP for my son for school..

He did say that Doc K in CT (LL neurologist) really is impressed with it, and I have noticed some here are as well..

And have glossed over some posts of EuroLyme that slo show interest and/or response with this new drug.

It's not often they come up with a "new" one, and I know the interest is there.

It has yet to be tested long term, but I read some are feeling good results initially.

he did mention some say that it has good BBB penetration, I am hesitant because I have had such a good response switching from macrolides to Mino..that for my M.Fermentans..

But..then again, I have no reson to believe, despite negative testing, that I do not have one of the other strains of Mycoplasma as well.

Then again, again..it could help with Lyme and Bartonella.

Far too many "then agains" in this maze to ever be clear on what to do in theory.

Largely, the approach must be empirical. Like we have to make our best informed guess, and see if we respond well.

Mo

Right now though for me it is probably inflammation from the stupid port - nerves being messed with.

But one note - when I had one IV of glutathione at llmd office a month ago, alot of the pain diminished.

Still get the darn tightening though - but it actually could be muscle spasming - just not used to it there.

Thanks for the update.

My husband (pleurisy/LD) & I were really relieved that you're able to find the root cause of this.

It's all so interesting.

My husband will ask to be tested for M. fermantans at next visit.

My 20 yr. old son's LLMD caught M. fermantans on the very first visit with lab work. (Done at LabCorp of all places; I thought MDL was the best at mycoaplasmas.)

She told him that later in life the m. fermantans could cause heart problems.

I actually went to the ER with it thinking it was heart related.

One of the first posts sent to you by "Henson" would be my sense of what you could be experiencing with your Lyme. I am in the process of being tested for Lyme lo these many years later.

In all my reading I've been doing, I did read a Lyme medical article describing the syndrome written of by Henson of the chest wall discomfort a very common problem with the mycoplasms in the back, affecting the nerves in the chest wall.

After reading that, the light bulb moment happenend for me as I realized my initial chest symptom, most likely was a Lyme one. I have been bitten way back those 12 years ago and can remember a flu like reaction and migrain like headaches, then the muscle pain.

Have had the positve Bowen results and now waiting on the WB.