I've been off antibiotics for over 6 weeks now, and have been feeling great.

However, last week I had a bunch of bloodwork done at my LLMD's office.

My CD57 results (natural killer cell count) is still just as terrible as it was 9 months ago - base count of 1, absolute % 19.

9 months of supplements, immune enhancers, Berry Young Juice, TOA Free-Cats Paw, NADH... I sleep at least 8 hours every night. What the heck else can I try to wake up my immune system?

I'm still on supplements, acidophillus, Cat's Paw, Oil of Oregano, AG Immune from Bodywise. I haven't had any relapse of symptoms - we worked on a 4 month weanoff of the abx. I feel good, and I know I shouldn't let this worry me, but it does.

Thanks Cave!!

I thought it meant I was one step away from relapse and that I was in much worse shape than I felt.

I guess the question is... am I wasting my money on all these immune supplements? My count is actually slightly lower than my first test (last March), pre-Lyme treatment.

I've had 2 colds and a UTI in the last 6 months (nothing since I went off abx.... yet)

Thanks for the info. And I'm glad I'm not the only one baffled by it.

Maybe it is a case of treating Lyme successfully. I've had it ten years, treated for 8 mos with abx. My LLMD insists a protocol of Prima Una de Gato at double the strength I was on, plus Oil of Oregano, is enough to continue my recovery.

I'll be doing a parasite and total body cleanse once the holiday is over - perhaps the flush will move out the backup of heavy metals I'm sure I have (6 mos of foot detox patches still are black and oozing nightly) will enable my immune system to take over.

I finally convinced my LLMD to run a hormone panel and I got the results yesterday... and my progesterone level is wayyyy low. Started Pro Gest cream yesterday. Any idea how long this stuff takes to help the body normalize? And is this common with Lyme (or is it just my age showing...39)

I'll google the article to find the rest - thanks!

Robi, email me when you're feeling better.

Interesting thought, and I would love for it to be true.

Happy Holidays!

quote:

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Originally posted by cave76:

My llmd is also an immunologist (and had a large AIDS practice), so I'd imagine that he would know more about the immune system that most doctors.

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interesting... has he run a complete immune complex profile for you? IgG and IgG sublevels, circulating CD3 complex, lymphocyte panel, t and b cell count, etc?

most llmd's are internists, and like you pointed out, don't know this stuff in detail. they will check your neutrophil and lymphocyte levels on CBC's and that's it.

i would think any immunologist would run these tests within the first few visits. if their are deficiencies, as lyme would cause as it is an immunosuppressive autoimmune like disease, that your dr would have put you on a regimen of immunomodulating drugs, like gamma gloublin, iv or im.

lyme is a protein, or antibody binding, pathogen so immunomodulating drugs let the antigen (bacteria) seperate from the protein and produce postitive antibodies, it also decreases cytokine production which causes inflammation. it also increases the number of phagocytes (bacteria eaters).

if you want to read more in detail :
http://www.emedicine.com/med/byname/intravenous-immunoglobulin.htm

nk cells are actually an addition of CD8 and CD57. not to belittle their importance but they are small part of the immune system overall. for lyme patients it seems to be indicative, as where CD4 deficiencies is indicative of HIV/AIDS.

supplements are all good and well but they are no substitute for real medical immunomodulating drugs.

lymeinhell : hormone factors are often way way off lyme. i'm not sure why but they seem to refigure themselves as the spirochetes die.

i don't know much about this but i'm sure as you continue to get better your testing will fall back into the normal range.

but i'm glad your feeling better regardless. keep up the good work.

Thanks for the info Zip... will bring this to the attention of my LLMD and ND for further research.

I really appreciate the info, and feel much better about the test results. Just had a long exhausting holiday, and here I am, still full of energy, no aches or pains... so nice to feel normal.

Merry Christmas to all... and to all a good night.

Find my updated nutshell post. Link the mdschoice website...the one that is supposed to teach doctors about the functions of Mg. Skim it, but pay attention to the part about the Mg - immune system.

Also note that our NK cells need Mg and Ca in order to work. (Class college notes).

There is a cortisol - NK cell connection. Figure out why cortisol is being overproduced and what to do to stop this.

It all, I repeat all, goes back to Mg being deficient (depleted) and this sprials out of control.

Taking large doses of Mg just a few times a day doesn't cut it. Most of it will go into the toilet.

Timing and doses are critical. Read Valletta's U.S. patent..."Magnesium for autoimmune". The clues are there.

Those who have enough Mg in storage to draw from fare better...and feel better...and recover easier...this includes kids. That is why...generally speaking...they stand a better chance of recovering. This pathogen releases a lot of toxins (acidic) as it is destroyed.

Muscle cells contain a lot of mitochondria. (Powerhouses in the cells where ATP - energy - is made. We need Mg to make ATP.) Men have more muscle than women. Theoretically, they would stand a greater chance of recovery. Would depend on other factors too...level of infection(s), stress load, diet - healthy or not, exercise,etc.

It will take the body TIME to bounce back. When the infection is gone...give it time to rebalance and watch your NK cell level rise.

Rebalance it WILL.

Your comment about "feeling great" is very positive!!! Looks like you have this infection under control. You are very lucky!

Continue to do the things to help your body along in the healing process. It is still healing. Eat Mg rich foods and drink good water (filter the fluroide out). Avoid sugar, but starches are okay...and NEEDED. Get outside and take a walk in the sunshine and fresh air. And don't forget to say "thank you Lord".

Keep telling yourself..."I'm getting better." Do not allow yourself negative thoughts.

You ARE on the path to wellness. Congrats!

P.S. Yes, Abx. modulate (change) the immune system response. The route it (smartly) choses to go. This is documented (pubmed abstract) in my updated nutshell post. Abx. are known to deplete the minerals too. Research the Mg-hormones connection. It exists. This bug picks THE most essential mineral to deplete in us. It impacts soooo much. (Calcium would come a close 2nd.)

Thanks for the info. I do believe you are correct about Magnesium. Since I spent a year and a half with unbelievable IBS, my LLMD put me on Magnesium with Potassium Aspartate - it's a lower dose - on 70mg - but she said it was more absorbable and wouldn't mess with my stomach as much. I take it 4 times a day.

When I stopped abx, I developed leg and foot cramps - I upped the magnesium to 6 times a day, and they disappeared. So I guess the buggers are still snacking, but the party's gotten a bit less crowded.

I have added starches (in moderation) again to my diet - thanks for making me feel not so guilty about it. I believe yeast is a thing of the past for me - Oil of Oregano has really worked wonders but I will continue to take it daily for its anti-fungal and anti-bacterial properties.

Could low magnesium levels have also have lowered my progesterone level? It was 0.21 when the normal range is 1.9 - 19.. (yikes, no wonder I was shedding like the cat) Or is this an age thing?

Again, many thanks for your expert advice.

And nice to see you around again!!!