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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Increase Your Chances of Testing Positive on the Lyme Western Blot Anti-Bodies

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Author Topic: Increase Your Chances of Testing Positive on the Lyme Western Blot Anti-Bodies
DiffyQue
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Hi All,

Due to the extreme problems encountered with lyme testing, I've developed a theoretical list of solutions for the purpose of maximizing one's chances of obtaining a positive lyme western blot antibody test, IF one has lyme disease.

Since laboratories use some of the humanly- edible enzymes as part of testing/research for the purpose of spliting-up immune complexes,the immune complexes can be split up in the body,prior to testing. This assumes that, laboratories do not bother to break up the immune complexes, thereby freeing-up borrelial antigens and/or antibodies to be nabbed by whatever testing agents, and processes they use in a given lyme western blot for borrelial antibodies.

This solution-list is based upon the assumption that one was diagnosed with lyme disease, but tests negative for anti-bodies to Borrelia due to problems of various kinds.

I'm developing this list of probable solutions to the lyme western blot test for antibodies in a piecemeal fashion, as time allows.

CONTRIBUTIONS TO THIS LIST OF SOLUTIONS TO THE SEVERE PROBLEMS OF TESTING NEGATIVE FOR LYME ANTI-BODIES IS HIGHLY ENCOURAGED. But please back up suggestions with scientific evidence. Thanx

I listed the problems and 'real evidence-based' probable solution(s), the rationale for them, and references supporting them.

To support these suggested ideas, I've listed researchers' names, and/ or leads to abstracts,links, etc., from the peer-reviewed literature.

I've taken SOME of the apparently insoluble problems of testing negative for lyme disease antibodies,from a list of testing problems found on numerous websites and suggest some probable, 'evidenced-based' solution(s) to them.

PROBLEMS IN TESTING FOR LYME DISEASE AND PROBABLE SOLUTIONS AS SUPPORTED BY THE SCIENTIFIC AND MEDICAL LITERATURE:

n.b.: Its suggested that you confer with your medical doctor before adopting any of these solutions.

1.0) PROBLEM: Antibodies bound up in immune complexes.
For evidence of their existence,the reader is referred to the JAMA ABSTRACT at bottom of this post.

SOLUTION(s): PLANT AND ANIMAL ENZYMES

Break-up immune complexes; specifically,those immune complexes that:

a. are circulating in the blood.
b. are embedded in tissues; e.g., stuck in the kidneys' structures.

RATIONALE:

Enzymes cleave the complexes, thereby freeing-up antibodies to, and antigens of Bb, thereby rendering antibodies and antigens available to bind with the agent(s) used in a lyme western blot test for anti-bodies.

Theoretically, this should:

i. Maximize the number of bands that would register on the lyme westerm blot test,and so increase our chances of meeting the CDC's epidemiological, case surveillance definition of a positive lyme western blot test.

ii. To perhaps facilitate an increase in the intensity of the bands? (speculation w/ no basis in fact)

1.2) Magnesium supplementation:

To help enzymes do their respective jobs. I only mentioned this element since it seems to be one of the most problematic elements in lyme disease, and/or other tick-borne illnesses. In suspected lyme disease,and/or other tick-borne diseases, an apparent magnesium deficit is often moderate to severe.

For an extended rationale for magnesium supplementation in general, see:
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001744.html


1.3 Steam-Distilled Water:

RATIONALE:

The enzymes mentioned here have another kind classification called hydrolases,(hydro- = water, and "-ase(s)" = enzyme(s)). The cleavage process involves the insertion of water into the bond(s) responsible for forming an immune complex. We supply the water, and the enzymes will do the rest of the job."

2.0) PROBLEM: Blebs bind to IgM antibodies.

SOLUTION(S):


3.0) PROBLEM: "S-layer of Bb" binds to IgM: Enzyme(s) to cleave the bond(s)?

SOLUTION(S)So, what enzymes are purported to cleave this layer?


4.0) PROBLEM: Recent antibiotic treatment:

SOLUTION(S):

It takes approximately at least 6 weeks to get one's antibody levels up to a level that conduces to rendering an accurate test result, be the result negative or positive.

Therefore:

4.1) Herbs, meds., and/or a sufficient,but NOT mega-dose of appropriate vitamin/mineral supplement to increase anti-body production.

4.2) Supplemental BIOTIN, a B-vitamin(?):

Laboratories use one of many tests called Biotinylation(bt) for whats called immuno-assays; this involves the use of biotin as such, and/or some form of it, in the identification and processing of antigens and/or antibodies, and/or nucleic acids(DNA and RNA material).

Therefore, this implies that oral intake of biotin may improve upon the accuracy and reliability of antibody testing.

RATIONALE: Some Enumerated Techno-Speak statements on bt:

4.2.1)Biotinylation, Definition of:

"Biotinylation(bt) is a rapid method to detect nucleic acids...covalently coupled to primary amines[very probably lysine molecules] of immunoglobulins[antibodies]." Reference source lost.

4.2.2) bt of antigens is used to improve immunoassays. Source: Some company description of bt's purpose.

4.2.3) bt requires a free amino group [probably the amino group on a lysine molecule]on the protein/peptide.

4.2.4) Equation for reaction involving biotin:
a) Biotin + enzyme + ATP + HCO3- + (Mg + acetyl CoA) ------> CO2~biotin-enzyme + ADP + Pi( = inorganic phosphorous)
b) CO2~biotin-enzyme + HCO3- + Mn2+
<-----> biotin-enzyme + oxaloacetate.

4.3) From a lost source describing an experiment involving biotin and galactosylceramide(GalCer):

" Adherence was greater to gal cer with a higher content of alpha-hydroxy fatty acids.
The binding receptor for Bb is ceramide monohexoside. The sugar and N-acyl moieties in gal cer are necessary for binding 67kDa, 62kDa(Hsp62) and 41kDa flagellin were involved in Bb binding as shown by BIOTINYLATED gal cer as a probe."

Again, this forgoing passage, implies that oral intake of biotin may conduce to obtaining positive anti-body test.

Caveat: Before adopting any of these solutions, it is best to consult medical expertise on interaction of effects on the 3 things mentioned here, and these three things with other medical conditions,including TBDs

5.0) PROBLEM: CONCOMITENT INFECTION WITH BABESIA MAY CAUSE IMMUNOSUPPRESSION

SOLUTION(S):

5.1) Pancreatin (porcine origin, and found in many enzyme formulations:

RATIONALE:

This rationale is predicated upon a singular, in vitro comaparative analysis of the effects of Hog Pancreas vs. Bee Venom on
P. Falciparum, that causes malaria; thusly, and hence, with malaria being the model for babesial treatment, Pancreatin "may" kill babesia at two stages of development: One stage, intermediate in growth between "birth" and end of development("growed-up" stage), and the other at the adult stage. This developmental timeline is in hours[for the malaria experiment]


4.0 PROBLEM: ...DOWN REGULATION OF THE IMMUNSYSTEM BY CYTOKINES

SOLUTION:
One or more studies cited on http://www.mucos.de mentions this effect of cytokines, and the use of various multi-enzyme formulations to bring cytokine levels to within normal range,if not close to the upper and lower limits of their respective ranges.

An example of a cytokine problem, and the use of plant and animal enzymes to ameliorate it:

PROBLEM: Polymerization of cytokines:

E.g., the numbers a particular kind of cytokine reaches such high level that they start to bind to one another, and still another binds to these, and so on until there is a long "chain," or "sheet," or "glob." This is called polymerization. In this state the cytokine is not functional, because that part(s) of the cytokine itself that is supposed to bind, say, for example, to a tumor(cell),or a borrelial antigen has instead,bonded to another one just like it.

Example:
If, as is the case in many diseases, our cells start pumping out Tumour Necrosis factor (TNF) in 'astromomical' numbers,then these TNF molecules start to bind to one another. If bound to one another, then they can't bind to, say, for example, a tumour, thereby at least initiating the killing process.

SOLUTION:
Enzyme(s) will cleave the 'chain', or 'sheet', or 'glob' of polymerized cytokine(s),and, perhaps, thereby freeing-up each one to either:

a) do its job again, or if freed, but not functional, then;
b) to get it processed more readily by the body.

LYSOZYME: Merck Index commercial name is Muramidase.

Merck Index descriptions:
1. N-acetylmuramide glycanohydrolase.

2.Ther. Cat.: Mucolytic enzyme with antibiotic properties. Anti-viral.

3. Dissolves bacterial cell wall mucopolysaccharides by hydrolyzing
Beta(1--->4) linkages between N-acetyl-D-muramidic acid and 2-acetylamino 2-deoxy-D-glucose residues.

4. It also acts on chitin.
End Merck descript.


LYSOZYME: From Lehninger,A.,in "Biochemistry...":

"Found in tears...causes lysis of gram'+' bacteria by hydrolyzing
B(1-->4) glycosidic bonds of the polysacc. backbone of the peptidoglycan.
The products of lysozyme action are disaccharides of NAC and N-acetylmuramic acid to which the peptide side chains are still attached.

Gram '+' bacteria are encase by upto 20 layers of cross-linked peptidoglycan. This is resistant to the action of peptide-hydrolyzing enzymes, which D-amino acids."

[Parenthetically, here in this last sentence, 'D' refers to amino acids which, when a special light is shone upon them, will rotate this light in a rightward direction; L-amino acids rotate this light in a leftward direction.
Bacteria, and other biological entities,in part, are made of D-amino acids. We humans on the other hand, use only L-amino acids for our make up.] Some,if not all of the enzymes found on our store shelves for digestive purposes, do not digest bacterial cell walls because the proteins comprising them are made of D-amino acids; other enzyme preps. found in stores, and, as may be exemplified in the product Candex and like- formulations, will digest fungal, and bacterial cell walls because they are composed for the most part, if not totally of D-amino acids. ]

LYSOZYME: cont.'d, from Lehninger,A. above:

"When gram'+' bacteria are treated with lysozyme in the prescence of high concentrations of the impermeable solute sucrose[ordinary table sugar] (0.8 moles), the gram+ bacteria are protected against osmotic swelling after the wall is removed.

Theoretically, if eating lysozyme, its best not to eat sugar, as this will render gram'+' bacteria either less susceptible, or impervious to cleavage by lysozyme.

Lysozyme would be a particularly good enzyme to have in a formulation, because it can cleave bacterial cell walls comprised of D-amino acids.

Caveat on Lysozyme:
Some of the medical literature suggests that lysozyme can not be taken in large doses, and esp. by individuals with certain genetic medical conditions.

Serrapeptidase: As yet unresearched. Your experiences, positive and negative appreciated

Nattokinase: As yet unresearched. Your experiences, pos. and neg, appreciated.

Sources supporting suggestions on enzymes: http://www.Rczee.org/szee/proc/bunikis.htm Both the article and the reference section describes the role of the enzyme called Trypsin. http://www.mucos.de

One of the most comprehensive, and detailed discussions on the role of enzymes and the immune system that I've found.

Titles of some papers on this site: http://www.mucos.cz/eng/immuno/W_livdis.html:

Title: Wobenzym in Complex Therapy of Chronic Liver diseases, by A.M. Vasilenko,S. V.Svec, State Medical Academy in Dnepropetrovsk
II National Congress of Rheumatologists in the Ukraine, Kiev,1997

This has an excellent discussion/summary of Immune Complexes, antigen-antibody ratios, immuno-pathological mechanisms and how to correct/minimize destructive effects by using enzymes. Improving blood rheology(flow)

1)Pharmacology of Systemic Enzyme therapy:

Some of the key terms one needs to be familiar with or know about when you get there:

1.1) Serine proteinase inhibitors( serine anti-proteinases): Chymotrypsin, and trypsin; there are probably others I'm not aware of. Other names = XXXXXXX-protease(s); peptidase(s).


1.2) Cysteine proteinase inhibitors( cysteine anti-proteinases): Bromelain, and Papain(found in the papaya fruit); there are others that I'm not aware of. Other names = XXXXX-protease(s), peptidase(s)
The suffix "-ase" means enzyme.

alpha-2-Macroglobulin(A2M):

When reading literature on this, pay particular attention to its role in a deranged immune system:

"[A2M] controls a number of various cytokines, including tumor necrosis factor(TNF) and the colony-stimulating factor(CSF), as well as some varied hormones.
It apparently serves to control the distribution, activity and degradation of these messenger substances."

"A2M-Trypsin complexes inhibit the proliferation of cytotoxic T lymphocytes and inhibit interleukin-2. As a consequence, this immunoregulatory rationale speaks in favor of administering a systemic enzyme therapy in cases of autoimmune disease."

Title: Systemic Enzyme Therapy--Newest Status and Progress, by Prof. Dr. H. Wrba, in Therapie Woche 37, 7, 1987.

For more detailed discussion, see http://www.mucos.de


Other supporting references are below.

http://www.garynull.com/Documents/arthritis/systemic_enzyme_therapy.htm
Title: Systemic Enzyme Therapy
This article is the most readable for the non-medical/scientific person. http://www.lymenet.org(This website):

For many abstracts on immune complexes, go to the Medical Abstracts secton of this website, and type into the search field, the following term:

1. "Immune Complexes"

Steven Schutzer, M.D., et.al. discuss the use of enzymes in cleaving immune complexes--in vitro.

Lenard Sigal, M.D., also mentioned immune complexes.

http://www.Gordonresearch.com or "__.org"
http://wwww.Thorne.com

http://www.willner.com of Willner Chemists, NY,NY

CAVEATS(not inclusive):
In the large doses suggested by some of these sites on systemic enzyme therapy there can be an interaction of effects with medicines, prescription, or OTC., and/or various medical conditions.

Examples:
i. One should NOT take enzymes in large doses if one is going for surgery, including dental work, like a tooth extraction,and/or biopies, and spinal taps.

ii. At high doses, enzyme(s) can make blood-thinning medicines, herbs, oils, etc. work only t-o-o well.

iii. Some enzymes, will cause a false positive test for cytomeglavirus(CMV), a herpetic virus. If it does so for CMV, then it is very likely that they will also cause a false positive test for other herpetic viruses. Back in 1999, I found this information on a medical school, or biochemistry website and I haven't been able to find it again.

IMMUNE COMPLEXES:

JAMA. 1999 Nov 24;282(20):1942-6. Related Articles, Links


Erratum in:
JAMA 2000 Oct 25;284(16):2059.

Comment in:
JAMA. 2000 Aug 9;284(6):695-6.

Borrelia burgdorferi-specific immune complexes in acute Lyme disease.

Schutzer SE, Coyle PK, Reid P, Holland B.

Department of Medicine, University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey-New Jersey Medical School, Newark 07103, USA. [email protected]

CONTEXT:
Diagnosis of infection with Borrelia burgdorferi, the cause of Lyme disease (LD), has been impeded by the lack of effective assays to detect active infection.

OBJECTIVE:
To determine whether B. burgdorferi-specific immune complexes are detectable during active infection in LD.

DESIGN, SETTING, AND PATIENTS:
Cross-sectional analysis of serum samples from 168 patients fulfilling Centers for Disease Control and Prevention surveillance criteria for LD and 145 healthy and other disease controls conducted over 8 years. Tests were performed blinded.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE:
Detection of B. burgdorferi immune complexes by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay and Western blot. RESULTS: The B. burgdorferi immune complexes were found in 25 of 26 patients with early seronegative erythema migrans (EM) LD; 105 of 107 patients with seropositive EM LD; 6 of 10 samples that were seronegative [corrected] with culture-positive EM; 0 of 12 patients who were treated and recovered from LD; and 13 of 13 patients with neurologic LD without EM. Among 147 controls, B. burgdorferi immune complex was found in 0 of 50 healthy individuals; 0 of 40 patients with persistent fatigue; 0 of 7 individuals with frequent tick exposure; and 2 of 50 patients with other diseases.

CONCLUSION:
These data suggest that B. burgdorferi immune complex formation is a common process in active LD. Analysis of the B. burgdorferi immune complexes by a simple technique has the potential to support or exclude a diagnosis of early as well as active LD infection.

PMID: 10580460 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The above JAMA abstract notes the existence of immune complexes with the person.

If the oral intake of enzymes splits these immune complexes in the body, then a lyme western blot test for antibodies, and/or antigens, should test positive, if one has lyme disease.

One argument against using JAMA as a source to quote, is that this journal is a commercial trade journal, and not a scientific journal, i.e., a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

Dq


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bg
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DQ, are you a medical type former employee?

Looks like you went to a lot of work on this one! Thanks for your input.

May I suggest you ask Treepatrol & Tincup to add a link to their newbie links?

Noticed you might want to go in & delete all the edits out at the bottom..ha.

Thanks again DQ for your timeconsuming work on this one! Betty G., Iowa


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DiffyQue
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Hi Betty,

Thanks

I'm neither a physician nor a medical-type person. which is why I also state, numerous times throughout the above post,that readers consult their healthcare provider prior to doing anything implicitly suggested in the above post.

Self-responsibility is emphasized in this regard.


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bpeck
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Diffy used to be a frequent poster- and he's used a few different internet names. This is an excellent post with alot of info in it that may help break up immune complexes - which can cause proeblems in the body themselves if their number are high enough.

I have experience with WobenzymN and the OPC formulation in Masqueliers. I think both are good products.

Barb

--------------------
Barb Peck (Elder LymeNet user). Lyme since 1975 Transfusion

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pq
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i wondered myself what happened to this guy.

hope diffie didn't lose his integrals. [Razz] [lol]

some good stuff posted. [Cool]

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Marnie
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Would "damaged" antibodies "count"? I doubt it.

Our own antibodies are not "perfect" fighters against Bb, why?

"Characterization of the physiological requirements for the bactericidal effects of a monoclonal antibody to OspB of Borrelia burgdorferi by confocal microscopy.

The bactericidal effect of Fab-CB2 is not dependent on the induction of spirochetal proteases but is dependent on the presence of Ca2+ and Mg2+.

Supplementation of Ca2(+)- and Mg2(+)-free medium with these cations restored the bactericidal effects of Fab-CB2.

The mechanism by which a Fab fragment of an antibody destroys a bacterium directly may represent a novel form of antibody-organism interaction.

PMID: 9125579

A ``novel form of antibody-organism interaction?'' I don't THINK so!

E. Required by immunological process. Magnesium, immunity, and allergy: Mg is required for several steps of immunological reactions
1. Lymphoblastic transformation, a prerequisite of secretion of antibodies by lymphoblasts, requires Ca2+ and Mg2+
2. Mg is required for synthesis of proteins, immunoglobulins included
3. Antibody-induced complement activation is Mg dependent
4. The antigen-immunoglobulin-complement reaction induces degranulation of the mastocyte

http://www.mdschoice.com/elements/elements/major_minerals/magnesium.htm

P.S. To "see" an antibody ...visualize a stalk of broccoli. The "fab" (damaged) portion is at the top of the "tree". If you dig really deep...there are pictures of the antibodies with the fab portion on the internet.

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treepatrol
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 -

The Fab portion of the antibody has specificity for binding an epitope of an antigen. The Fc portion directs the biological activity of the antibody.

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

Newbie Links

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pingpong
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pingpong
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Some clues here on what might be done to maximize chances of testing postitive for antibodies to lyme; thats to say if one really has lyme, but has tested negative in the past.



http://tinyurl.com/2fem55

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pingpong

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pj1954
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I would like to add a deep tissue massage will also help move the bugs out of their hiding places like the muscles and ligiments and into the blood stream. this I confirmed thru dr-c he said hes a firm believer in massage therapy-pj
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roro
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quote:
Originally posted by pj1954:
I would like to add a deep tissue massage will also help move the bugs out of their hiding places like the muscles and ligiments and into the blood stream. this I confirmed thru dr-c he said hes a firm believer in massage therapy-pj

Well this explains why I got severely ill when I got a massage. I wonder if its really driving the bugs out of the muscles, or if it could have something to do with lymph nodes?

I got severe pain just from light massage. I guess I am very ill, but I knew that.

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pj1954
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roro yes it can cause you to herx, for me its 3x now the day after a full massage, you will be sore but this gets better after each massage.

my therapist does a myofacial relief massage and does a full lymph drain massage every time I go and it has helped me ten fold.

when I first started going I could hardly walk upright walked around like artie johnson the little old man from laugh in(show from the 60's ) now im getting my golf clubs out of the retirement they have been in for the last 5 years.

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pingpong
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up for further discussion

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pingpong

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pingpong
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while various formulations of enzymes work for various purposes, given what kathleen dickson said on her youtube videos,which is supported by comprehensicve, exhaustively detailed documentation of peer-review lit. on the topic,(as found on actionlyme.org, and, perhaps on scilyme2), one would stil NOT test positive for borrelial antibodies, IF AND ONLY IF one had lyme western blot testing for antibodies done with many test kits on the market.

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pingpong

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TerryK
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