(1) Did he recommend it or did you request it?

(2) What is his opinion of the safety and potential for success on this protocol?

(3) How are you doing? I would also be interested in the severity of your symptoms just prior to starting the protocol and what kinds of treatments you underwent prior and for how long.

I remember reading a post (somewhere, not sure where, though) that he was doing it with some patients who had requested it.

I am hopeful that one of them will happen along this thread and be willing to reply to my questions, either here or privately, however they feel more comfortable.

(1) I requested it as my next step would otherwise have been IM Bicillin so thought I'd try the MP first...Dr B said that I should finish my co-infection treatments first.

(2) He said he thought it was safe but wasn't sure if it would work

(3) I am doing okay BUT was stable before the MP started having undergone aggressive oral abx treatment for Bartonella and about 10months Babesia treatment with Mepron and Azith, so about 18mnths oral abx first.

I am 5 months into the MP now & on Phase 2..i do have noticeable herxing but my progress is up and down so far..some small improvements, has played havoc with my periods and I can still only work afternoons.

P.S. Dr B said he found Mino to be ineffective so had stopped using it.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I am intrigued that he thought it was safe but did not believe it would work. I would be curious to know if he changes his mind on either of these points.

Do you know if he took a detailed or just a cursory look at the relevant documentation? Has he spoken with Dr. Marshall? Did he hear his presentation at the ILADS conference?

Are you reporting your progress at marshallprotocol.com where I might follow it? If so, I am wondering what is your screen name? (Feel free to send this to me privately, if you prefer.)

Thank you very much again for taking the time to post here for me.

Take good care,
Ticked

I haven't spoken to Dr B. for a while and in that time I know he has met Dr Marshall and heard his presentation so I don't know if any of his thoughts have changed.

My screen name is Emma - most of the reports are in the 'Full protocol and Quercetin' and earlier ones in the 'full protocol' board.

IMHO perhaps Mino is ineffective when used alone , when used with Benicar it is completely different...especially when used in combination in Phase 2.

Email me privately if you need anymore info,

I am not one of doctor B's patients, so I can't help you with those questions. However, when I first began the MP in July 2004, my LLMD wrote the initial prescriptions. At that time, he had already made the decision to retire due to his own struggles with Lyme disease. He felt that it probably couldn't hurt me, but he also did not think it would help me either.

After I had been on the MP for several months and I had gotten through the difficult transition onto it, it was working so well for me that I opted to find a MP doctor who was more familiar with it than I was, instead of finding a replacement LLMD. Our LLMDs are so over-worked and they have to fly below the radar to avoid persecution. This seemed to be the path for me and I felt ready to move on.

For once, I didn't want to have to be the one approaching someone new with whom I did not have an established relationship with a protocol that was unproven outside of the Sarcoidosis patient population.

The MP was working so well for me, but I wanted to be able to relax and enjoy the process without feeling uncertain about whether or not my ability to continue making progress would be dictated by politics and forces I could not see. I also did not want for my decision to have repercussions for other Lyme patients.

I have been delighted with my progress and I'm so grateful to TM, but it is too soon to know whether or not it will be able to provide me with a lasting remission. Based on what I'm seeing, I have real hope that it will, but it is still too early to know for certain. Only time will tell, and until enough time has passed to say for sure, I'm uncomfortable speculating.

Thank you for your messages. Much appreciated.

Though my question was specific to Dr. B. because of his pre-eminance in the field, I am interested in what other LLMD's think of the Marshall Protocol. It doesn't seem that any are speaking publicly, probably because it is not yet definitively proven safe or effective over the long term, even for the sarcoidosis patients who have done well but are still on medications.

Promising yes, proven no.

If anyone else is willing to share the opinions of their LLMD's about the protocol, either publicly or privately, it would be most appreciated, .

This site use be very open to all questions and points of view, but over the last 2 months they have really closed things up. Kind of like they have something to hide.

It seemed to start when I posted a question about the success of long term sarc patients. The MP's greatest claim is that people will not relapse after finishing treatment, like what is common with other abx therapies. It turns out that even the people that have been on the MP for 2 yrs or more are still taking benicar and abx, so there isn't even any proof yet that it works. Trevor Marshall even closed down the thread because of all the questions it was raising about long term success.

Who knows how long people will have to stay on the program to acheive permanent success, if indeed it does end up working. The staff is projecting 3 to 5 yrs. Here is the article.

Advise to MDs
Home Up Vit D & Illnesses Advise to MDs Recommended D Levels Vitamin 1,25D

Alternative Explanation of one aspect of MarshallProtocol.com Treatment for CFIDS/FM/RA
The MarshallProtocol.com treatment consists of:

Reduction of vitamin D intake
Use of Benicar, a member of the Angiotensin Receptor Blockers family of drugs
Antibiotics
This note examines only the Vitamin D aspect of this protocol.

Impact of Vitamin D reduction
Vitamin D is an important immune system regulator[1]. Its impact on Multiple Sclerosis, an autoimmune disease, has been well studied with the following generally accepted:

Low levels are associated with onset[2]
Injections of vitamin D hormone could protect against or arrest the animal forms of Multiple Sclerosis[3]
Risk of death is significantly reduced with increased Sunlight Exposure[4]
Vitamin D has been identified as a significant factor for incidence of several autoimmune illnesses such as multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, and inflammatory bowel disease[5]. Significant improve from taking vitamin D has been reported for several autoimmune illnesses, for example rheumatoid arthritis[6] and lupus[7]. No studies of Vitamin D in CFIDS patients could be located, but experience CFIDS MD, such as Dr. Teitelbaum, often recommend 600UI of vitamin D[8]. Studies of fibromyalgia and persistent, nonspecific musculoskeletal pain have found that low levels of vitamin D is common[9]. The literature strongly suggests vitamin D supplementation.

The MarshallProtocol.com advising an intentional reduction of vitamin D appears to fly in the face of this literature. What is going on?

The anecdotal reports from people trying a new alternative treatment for Chronic Fatigue have two characteristics:

Reduction of symptoms with the reduction of vitamin D
Significant Herxheimer reactions occurring from as little as 1-3 mg of antibiotics that did not produce a Herxheimer at 100-300mg prior to the reduction of vitamin D.
Other anecdotal reports of weight gain and muscle weakness are consistent with vitamin 1,25D deficiency.

This suggests the following model may be actually happening with CFIDS patients attempting this treatment:

Reduction of vitamin D results in suppression of the immune system and thus the immune response
Since symptoms in CFIDS appear to be an immune response, shutting down the immune systems should reduce symptom intensity.
Suppression of the immune system allows existing infections to spread with only token resistance from the immune system. Most of the infections associated with CFIDS do not have symptoms directly caused by them; rather the symptoms arise from the immune system response (which has now been suppressed).
When antibiotics are applied, the degree of infection is far more severe than prior producing a far more intense herxheimer reaction.
There may not be any obvious signs of this increase of infection because the infections are not directly producing the symptoms.
If this model is correct, then the patient will be subject to significant growth and establishment of other infections, including virii associated with cancers, as well as increased risk of diabetes from both weight gain and low vitamin D levels.

Summary
MDs considering the MarshallProtocol.com for any patient should exercise caution about tolerating vitamin D reduction. If there are multiple conditions present, the net result may be counter to the patient's best interest. Regular monitoring of vitamin D levels in patients prescribed Benicar is strongly recommended since there is a significant risk of non-compliance for prescribed vitamin D supplements.

Ken Lassesen, M.S.

Are you doubting it now? If so, why?

Are you still admin at marshall board?

Sorry to ask 100 questions, just curious because I go back and forth with the idea and I would think you see so much, if you are doubting it then there must be good reason?

Though LST - I am impressed by your progress, how were you feeling when you started the MP?And how did you find an MP doc?

Ok its too early for so many questions I know.

Well let me tell you, and her, something. On MP, 25mg of mino every other day + Benicar produced a stronger herx in me than 300mg/day of mino + 1200 mg of Omnicef/day that she had me on. This past week I added a TINY amount of Zithromax also, as I entered Phase 2 of MP. The herx is WAY stronger than it ever was on my LLMD's 500mg Zith + 1200 mg Omnicef!

There's no doubt in my mint that it's working. I just need more time before I see any positive results.

And to those looking at old Vitamin D research, let me ask a question: Where has 50 years of MS / Lyme / Chronic Fatigue / IBS research pointing to Vitamin D as a savior gotten any of us with these diseases?

Time for a new paradigm.

Thank you very much for sharing your experience. It is very encouraging to learn that this protocol is working so well for you.

Thank you also for your feedback. I am glad to learn that this protocol has helped you and your wife, too.

All:

I am still very interested to know how the LLMD's perceive the safety and efficacy of this protocol.

Many doctors may not yet be familiar with it. Given the success that some seem to be having, perhaps people could encourage their LLMD's to attend Dr. Marshall's conference in March? There is information at his web site. (www.marshallprotocol.com)

While I see potential for this protocol, I also see many concerns being discussed at this and other boards. I think it would be reassuring to many to have more LLMD's versed on the protocol who might be willing to comment publicly, and this conference would be a good opportunity to learn more and speak with Dr. Marshall directly.