I could use some ideas or thoughts on this, if you please.

I am trying to attack the inflammation caused by the chronic infections... and make it so others could get some help too if this works.

Yes.. the little guinea pig.

Reducing inflammation with the protocol I am on HAS worked in the past when my eyes developed iritis. I was able to get rid of the inflammation VERY well.. and quicker than if I had used steroids.

This was proven by weekly appointments with an eye specialist... and by the actual improvement in my vision.

BUT..

The supplements .. or something.. during that time when I used them.. made me feel... hmmmmmmmmm????

Cranky, herx like, yulky, brain foggy, and SLOW. Almost like the flu but not with all the flu symptoms.

Since the end results worked VERY well.. I think this would really help folks... and I am trying to FIX the combo of stuff to make it work but without the garbage feeling.

BUT.. if I have to go around feeling like "death warmed over" to get the inflammation reduced.. it ain't worth it.

I am taking daily..

Fish oils, increased dosages

Vitamin C - about 1,500- 2,000 mg

Bromelain

Quercetin

I am suppose to take Wobenzyme too.. and did it last time.. but didn't start it this time (last night) because my tummy was full and it needed to be empty to take it.

Sooooooo..

I just spoke with the Chiropractor. He doesn't think this is a "herx-like" thing even though it feels like it kinda.. but we don't know why this is happening now or why it did before.

I have taken all of the supplements before.. at various times.. but not so much the Vitamin C.

My THOUGHTS are it MIGHT be the Vitamin C causing the icky feeling?

Yes.. I am to stop them all.. then add in one a day.. which I SHOULD have done in the first place.

But.. does anyone have any experiences that might help me make sense of this?

Please be aware my computer is on the fritz again.. and will have to probably go back to the shop.. so if I lose you.. I will get back ASAP.

Thanks for any suggestions or experiences.. or information.

PS..

My thought last time was perhaps this ramped up my immune system and I was able to attack the infections on my own.. and I WAS herxing. But the doc doesn't think so... and I hate to say it.. he is usually right!

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If you get the choice to sit it out or dance...

I cannot take vit c without feeling very yucky adn herxy...same with b12..I know it helps many, but it makes me worse...so maybe you're having the same reaction?

thanks for being our guinea pig, with all else that you do....you're our hero..

You said..

"I cannot take vit c without feeling very yucky adn herxy...same with b12..I know it helps many, but it makes me worse...so maybe you're having the same reaction?"

That is EXACTLY what I need to know!

Funny you mentioned the B-12 ... cause that one is a definate NO NO for me too!

And here I thought I was just weird!

I can't be weird though.. cause then YOU would be TOO!

HA!

Now, little lady.. we gotta figure out WHY the Vitmain C does this...

AND.. if we are the only ones?

To add to the mess.. I also have trouble taking magnesium.

I take coral calcium.. and it helps a lot! It doesn't make sense.. but it does help.

Any more input will be appreciated.

I am taking Fish Oil capsules
Alpha Lipoic Acid
CoQ10
Acetyl L-Carnitine

Nice post. Wanted to let you know that when not treated last year and very ill, b12 gave me problems too.

It made my face tingle and freaked me out before someone told me that it was reviving the nerves in my face. Garlic was giving me immediate herx reactions as well within seconds of swallowing a freeze dried type garlic tablet with odor not the capsule kind.

I endured it once i realised what was happening I don't react like that now that my infection load has calmed down. Around this time I was using bromelain regularly and it helped alot too.

Wow... you too?

Interesting.

You said you take..

"Alpha Lipoic Acid.. Acetyl L-Carnitine"

Can you give me a brief explanation of what this is.. and what is it for?

Yes.. I could look it up.. but the computer is fragile.. and I don't want to push it till I get help.

THANKS!!!

Lymiecan..

You too on the B-12. Hmmmmmmm... VERY interesting.

When I posted on my reaction to this a long while back.. I don't remember others having the same problems.. so it is nice to know that maybe I am not the only one?

Are you still using the garlic? If so.. how much do you take?

This has me thinking... and I am NOT sure that is a GOOD thing!

hehehe

Thanks for replying.

Too strong Vit C can affect my lower GI track..

I got a buzz on Mg but think it was too strong a dose..I do know that it has to be taken alone and not with Calcium or it will do no good..Perhaps a slow release Mg would be the way to go if it exists..I do know you need good quality Mg.to do the job.

I think on Webmd or somewhere like that there is a med checker and you can also do suppliments..There might be interactions.

At the same time this die-off takes place, and since I would bet that you are not the only one that is not holding any heavy metals in your body, with the die-off - the metals are brought into circulation. For instance, the candida holds heavy metals in their cell wall, as do most of the other invaders/critters/bugs.

Where do these metals go?? They move through to the gut, if they get that far, are reabsorbed there and move on to find themselves another cozy pocket somewhere in your body and brain.

So with any "killing" agent, you will need to be prepared for the onslaught and have agents on board to catch these heavy metals and move them out of the body. Good clean chlorella does that. The scientific evidence abounds.

Sometimes the heavy metals end up being caught in the kidney and the kidney gets tired of working that hard. The results are pain and discomfort and eventually a diseased kidney, because God has not given us a throw-away-kidney yet.

So when you get these treatments, exclusive of ALA for certain unless your doctor understands totally what ALA can do to you, and unless he can test you for it before you take it with ART or other energy testing,
you should concentrate on colonics, lymphdrainage, but most important is chlorella.

You should take chlorella when you do Garlic.
Do only Organic Garlic. Garlic absorbs all pesticides if it is grown in such soil. That's what makes it so beneficial also for curing our ails. It absorbs the toxins. So you do not want to take in more toxins by using regular garlic. Organic garlic is hard to find. We get ours from Biopure - 1-800-801-6187. That's the one our doctor uses and if he discovers any product is not clean, he stops using it for patients. He finds out quickly when people don't seem to improve.

If you think you do not harbor any heavy metals in your body, even though you have lived on this once beautiful earth for a number of years, forget what I said.

Love you,

P.S. One should take one gram of Chlorella 30 minutes before every meal. Start with less and move up. That makes approx. 3 gr per day. I used to take the stuff by the handful. Remember calling my doctor one time in panic "hurting, hurting" - before he gave any more answers to my questions, he said "go downstairs and take a handful of chlorella right now" and then we will talk further.

You should take the garlic 3 capsules - right following the meal. Not with the meal, but after, when the digestive juices are still flowing.

You might consider taking EM for a while to reestablish the good microbes in your gut.
have posted about it several times. Take it for a couple three month and then stop.

Just suggestions - all of which are regular fare at our doctor's. Can't you entice that super-chiro to come to one of the ART classes. A beginner ART is in March. www.neuraltherapy.com.

It also explained to me several years ago why I never really suffered a Herxheimer, though I am well today, and had Lyme in a very bad way.

Take care.

I can't Vit C either..it bothers me...I don't why. I thought I was actually allergic to it at one time....before abx? My Mother has the same response she actually gets headaches from taking it..and won't touch anything with Vit C in it.

I don't take fish oils either. And so far B-12 does not bother me.

I hope you figure this out and you feel better..little goon.

First of all let me thank you for your help when I first posted on lyme net for help.

I have been experimenting too!! Just diagnosed two weeks ago (officially), but had to have something to help with this til I got into LLMD.

I am taking the following:
Magnesium asperatate 2x/day
B6 (P5P more readily absorbed) 50mg 2x/day
Olive leaf extract
Total Cleanse Multisystem Detox 2 tabs 2x/day
Vit C (no sugar) 3000 mg/day and increasing
Probiotics (refrigerated) 2 tabs at bedtime
Doxy 400 mg/day
Nystatin 4 tabs 4x/day

I had herx for a couple of days with olive leaf & total cleanse when I started each. B6 & magnesium made my muscle pain much less (from extreme to tolerable). Added Vit C and increased gradual (felt much better but herxed at first).

I stopped it for a few days, got to feeling really fatigued again. Started it again with better Vit C (no sugar). Got to feeling much better.

Herx with doxy. Thought it was over, so started Nystatin. Then I felt like I had the flu. Cut back dosage but still don't feel quite right. Having some heart fluttering. Debating stopping Nystatin for a while. I hate to do this because I know I have systemic yeast infection (white tongue, herx).

Do you have any suggestions on whether I should stop Nystatin. By the way, I tried starving it out but I loose to much weight with it (6 lbs every 4 days).

[This message has been edited by jmardis (edited 31 January 2005).]

My optomologist says no vitamin C, it's an antihistamine and at high doses really plays havoc with eye problems, like iritis and glaucoma. You are aware of my problems, so I don't take vit c, eat oranges and strawberries for now while off abx. He also said to stay off the quercetin too, that is even worse than vit c. They both cause your blood pressure to go way down, so....

Today found out my eye pressure is way down, a very good thing, my eye sight is good, but I have a huge cataract on right eye, so off for more surgery and then I should right as rain, so he says. I will always have the pain in bones around eyes, and in eyes as eyes don't really like to have 2 holes in them, they try to heal these 2 holes. Anyways whatever he's doing, it seems to be working. Removing the cataract will help with the double and foggy grey vision somewhat. I am so lucky thanks to you.

You also should know that iritis is a precursor to glaucoma and nausea, diarhea (sp?), foggy vision (like you know when you're looking out over the ocean on a very hot day, the wavy view above the ocean, well you know what I am trying to say, or like the view above a very hot pavement/highway, almost a balmy sensation. I hope this helps.

Let me try AGAIN!

I posted a response last night.. and obviously it didn't show up?

STUPID COMPUTER!

Anyhow.. the main message was THANKS!!!!

I am copying the responses to paper.. something I RARELY do... in case my computer decides to have a life of it's own again... and messes me up.

For those who take time to assist.. I DO appreciate it.

I will try to get back here later to answer questions.

PS..

GiGi..

Can you try emailing me? Got questions about the doctor we mentioned and ART classes.. and I will hopefully be seeing him this week.

THANKS!

Ok..

Yes I did.

HA!

[email protected]

Still reading all the info too!

Very good!

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If you get the choice to sit it out or dance...

but, I really don't want it.

As far as the quercetin, bromelian, etc, they are said to move toxins out. So you ccan definately get a herx from those suckers.