Some common forms are aspegillus, penicillium and stachybotrys. These are all very serious, sometimes fatal, and reasonably widespread. Stachybotrys has received the most press in recent years on investigative reporting segments on "black mold".

Testing for these is about as reliable as testing for lyme, so they're often dismissed.

Anyone ever wonder if their Flagyl is working because of mold infection?
I'd love to hear about anyone's experiences or relevant knowledge of molds. Thanks.

I was diagnosed with actual infection based on the tests, along with symptoms. When I started on Sporanox, which is preferred for aspergillosis infections, I got much worse for two weeks, then started to improve.

My doctor says there are three ways molds can affect someone. The first is an allergic reaction, that shows up on exposure, but when you are away from the exposure you recover.

The second is actual infection of tissue. He says that you usually get infections in tissue that is already damaged somehow, like sinuses that are already inflamed or infected, lungs, gut, or skin.

For an infection, the person needs treatment with antifungals. The treatment is long trem, because molds can stay in spore form for a very long time, and can only be killed while they are growing.

The last way molds can affect us is by toxicity reaction, which is different than the allergic reaction. Molds produce neurotoxins. If you are having a toxicity reaction, it doesn't matter if the mold is alive or dead.

However, if you have an infection, and an allergic or toxic reaction to the mold, that is obviously the worst, as you can't get away from the mold.

So, diagnosis and treatment has to take all the factors into account. My doc recommends avoidance as the most important aspect, including avoidance in the environment and in the foods you eat.

If there is infection, there needs to be long term antifungal treatment. If there is toxicity, there may need to be treatment for that as well, if the body is unable to clear the toxins. Avoidance helps reduce the toxicity reactions, and eventually reduces the load.

I am no longer taking antifungals, but I still cannot tolerate moldy environments, or foods like mushrooms. But my worst mold symptoms are gone, and some of the more minor ones, that are hard to distinguish from Lyme, are much improved.

The reason I've posted is twofold.

First, I'm building a house in LA that was not closed up during the intense rains we had and the severe moisture, presumably, has made the ceiling of one room (the secret room ) covered in mold.

Second, after seeing this, I remembered my own initial suspicion of molds being responsible for hospitalization and I felt many of us may be ignoring an important microbial source.

Moving along, is my house now just ruined?? I wonder if caprylic acid or vitamin C or bleach plus a thorough inspection and removal of all spores would be enough.

I know these buggers are so minute, so harmful and often so well-hidden that I'm ready to burn the whole place down and start anew. I hear that's quite effective.

I'm totally in agreement on the mycotoxins, they're horrible. For example, aflatoxin is one that's produced by certain species of aspergillus. Aflatoxin is one of the most potent carcinogens known to man.

I wonder if the book Dr. S (rhymes with flueshaker) is writing on molds will conclude that, similar to the neurotoxins in "Desperation Medicine", the mycotoxins just keep recycling unless bound by something like cholestyramine.

I've heard about the lengthy courses of sporanox as well. But diflucan, flagyl, etc., while capable of killing these guys, I get the impression isn't enough.

I totally agree that the sinuses are quite vulnerable and I've been told that most people harbor some fungi there. In the cases where the fungi are causing sufficent harm and peaceful coexistence is not an option, I'm told that intranasal sprays along with internal agents are required.

And these guys need not be living to cause serious toxicity. Even dead mold spores can be very toxic.

After I photographed the molds, I drank oregano and echinacea extracts and pau d' arco tea with manuka honey (propolis) and I took many garlic supplements and some chlorella. Hopefully I've protected myself.

So, thanks again and I'll post more info in a short bit,

trevor/oliver

I wonder about this as well. An environmental MD told me that avoidance is the only real treatment for mycotoxin exposure. He mentioned Charcoal and Sporanox but said the problem will reappear if the environment isn't changed.

Are others in your household suffering from symptoms? I'm convinced that Lymies are more susceptible to symptoms from Mycotoxins.

You're right, Aflotoxin is in peanuts and can be hazardous.

sheesh......can't bring up the link....go to "ecoquest"

I would have bought one after hearing how it helped him, but I had already bought one by "prozone". I think that website is on "biotech."

------------------
oops!
Lymetutu

Why do I say this? because I have worked in buildings that were mold infested, once I slept in one, my sisters apartment, and I awoke in the night so ill I could not walk straight.

I am sick, so I am much more affected by mold, it would kill me, my sister is not sick, but after she moved out of that apartment she called me up and said she felt SO! much better out of that apartment, she said her mind was much clearer, and she was much more motivated. Given a longer stay at that apartment, maybe she might have gotten sick, who knows.

I know it is a tough decision, so you have to think this out. The thing is, you are getting well now, trying to, and if you are in a house that has mold, or you THINK still has mold, you will not know if you are getting sicker from the house, or a herx, of if the infection, lyme is back.

I know with myself I live with my parents, and they had their carpets cleaned and I was sooooo ill. Days I did not know if I was asthmatic from the newly cleaned carpet, or if it was herxing. I get asthmatic herxing.

I broke down one day mentally and thoght I was going to die in the mind.
The smell is gone now, but it was so tough on me mentally. They had bought this nonodour carpet cleaner that still made me sicker then heck.

For me, I would rather live in a tree if I knew it was safe.

Foggy, by the way, you'll find the symptoms I've had ebedded in the abstracts below.

These are technical abstracts intended for physicians, but they're definitely worth at least skimming.

Note the name of one of the authors of the last study, it begins with S and rhymes with "fluemaker".

I'm sorry they're not written in plainer language, but even many doctors wouldn't understand all the details. The main points are what need to be grasped and they're CRUCIAL:

Effects of toxic exposure to molds and mycotoxins in building-related illnesses.
Arch Environ Health 2003 Jul;58(7):399-405 (ISSN: 0003-9896)
Rea WJ; Didriksen N; Simon TR; Pan Y; Fenyves EJ; Griffiths B Environmental Health Center-Dallas, Dallas, Texas 75231-4262, USA. [email protected].
The authors studied 100 patients who had been exposed to toxic molds in their homes. The predominant molds identified were Alternaria, Cladosporium, Aspergillus, Penicillium, Stachybotrys, Curvularia, Basidiomycetes, Myxomycetes, smuts, Epicoccus, Fusarium, Bipolaris, and Rhizopus. A variety of tests were performed on all, or on subgroups of, these patients. Sensitivities and exposures were confirmed in all patients by intradermal skin testing for individual molds (44-98% positive), and by measurement of serum antibodies. Abnormalities in T and B cells, and subsets, were found in more than 80% of the patients. The findings of trichothecene toxin and breakdown products in the urine, serum antibodies to molds, and positive intradermal skin tests confirmed mycotoxin exposure. Respiratory signs (e.g., rhinorrhea, sinus tenderness, wheezing) were found in 64% of all patients, and physical signs and symptoms of neurological dysfunction (e.g., inability to stand on the toes or to walk a straight line with eyes closed, as well as short-term memory loss) were identified in 70% of all patients. Objective abnormal autonomic nervous system tests were positive in all 100 patients tested. Brain scans, conducted using triple-head single photon emission computed tomography, were abnormal in 26 (86%) of 30 (subgroup of the 100) patients tested. Objective neuropsychological evaluations of 46 of the patients who exhibited symptoms of neurological impairment showed typical abnormalities in short-term memory, executive function/judgment, concentration, and hand/eye coordination.

Neural autoantibodies and neurophysiologic abnormalities in patients exposed to molds in water-damaged buildings.
Arch Environ Health 2003 Aug;58(8):464-74 (ISSN: 0003-9896)
Campbell AW; Thrasher JD; Madison RA; Vojdani A; Gray MR; Johnson A Medical Center for Immune and Toxic Disorders, Spring, Texas 77386, USA. [email protected].
Adverse health effects of fungal bioaerosols on occupants of water-damaged homes and other buildings have been reported. Recently, it has been suggested that mold exposure causes neurological injury. The authors investigated neurological antibodies and neurophysiological abnormalities in patients exposed to molds at home who developed symptoms of peripheral neuropathy (i.e., numbness, tingling, tremors, and muscle weakness in the extremities). Serum samples were collected and analyzed with the enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) technique for antibodies to myelin basic protein, myelin-associated glycoprotein, ganglioside GM1, sulfatide, myelin oligodendrocyte glycoprotein, alpha-B-crystallin, chondroitin sulfate, tubulin, and neurofilament. Antibodies to molds and mycotoxins were also determined with ELISA, as reported previously. Neurophysiologic evaluations for latency, amplitude, and velocity were performed on 4 motor nerves (median, ulnar, peroneal, and tibial), and for latency and amplitude on 3 sensory nerves (median, ulnar, and sural). Patients with documented, measured exposure to molds had elevated titers of antibodies (immunoglobulin [Ig]A, IgM, and IgG) to neural-specific antigens. Nerve conduction studies revealed 4 patient groupings: (1) mixed sensory-motor polyneuropathy (n = 55, abnormal), (2) motor neuropathy (n = 17, abnormal), (3) sensory neuropathy (n = 27, abnormal), and (4) those with symptoms but no neurophysiological abnormalities (n = 20, normal controls). All groups showed significantly increased autoantibody titers for all isotypes (IgA, IgM, and IgG) of antibodies to neural antigens when compared with 500 healthy controls. Groups 1 through 3 also exhibited abnormal neurophysiologic findings. The authors concluded that exposure to molds in water-damaged buildings increased the risk for development of neural autoantibodies, peripheral neuropathy, and neurophysiologic abnormalities in exposed individuals.

Mixed mold mycotoxicosis: immunological changes in humans following exposure in water-damaged buildings.
Arch Environ Health 2003 Jul;58(7):410-20 (ISSN: 0003-9896)
Gray MR; Thrasher JD; Crago R; Madison RA; Arnold L; Campbell AW; Vojdani A Progressive Healthcare Group, Benson, Arizona, USA. [email protected].
The study described was part of a larger multicenter investigation of patients with multiple health complaints attributable to confirmed exposure to mixed-molds infestation in water-damaged buildings. The authors present data on symptoms; clinical chemistries; abnormalities in pulmonary function; alterations in T, B, and natural killer (NK) cells; the presence of autoantibodies (i.e., antinuclear autoantibodies [ANA], autoantibodies against smooth muscle [ASM], and autoantibodies against central nervous system [CNS] and peripheral nervous system [PNS] myelins). A total of 209 adults, 42.7 +/- 16 yr of age (mean +/- standard deviation), were examined and tested with (a) self-administered weighted health history and symptom questionnaires; (b) standardized physical examinations; (c) complete blood counts and blood and urine chemistries; (d) urine and fecal cultures; (e) thyroid function tests (T4, free T3); (f) pulmonary function tests (forced vital capacity [FVC], forced expiratory volume in 1 sec [FEV1.0], and forced expiratory flow at 25%, 50%, 75%, and 25-75% of FVC [FEF25, FEF50, FEF75, and FEF2(25-75)]); (g) peripheral lymphocyte phenotypes (T, B, and NK cells) and mitogenesis determinations; and (h) a 13-item autoimmune panel. The molds-exposed patients reported a greater frequency and intensity of symptoms, particularly neurological and inflammatory symptoms, when compared with controls. The percentages of exposed individuals with increased lymphocyte phenotypes were: B cells (CD20+), 75.6%; CD5+CD25+, 68.9%; CD3+CD26+, 91.2%; CD8+HLR-DR+, 62%; and CD8+CD38+, 56.6%; whereas other phenotypes were decreased: CD8+CD11b+, 15.6% and CD3-CD16+CD56+, 38.5%. Mitogenesis to phytohemagglutinin was decreased in 26.2% of the exposed patients, but only 5.9% had decreased response to concanavalin A. Abnormally high levels of ANA, ASM, and CNS myelin (immunoglobulins [Ig]G, IgM, IgA) and PNS myelin (IgG, IgM, IgA) were found; odds ratios for each were significant at 95% confidence intervals, showing an increased risk for autoimmunity. The authors conclude that exposure to mixed molds and their associated mycotoxins in water-damaged buildings leads to multiple health problems involving the CNS and the immune system, in addition to pulmonary effects and allergies. Mold exposure also initiates inflammatory processes. The authors propose the term "mixed mold mycotoxicosis" for the multisystem illness observed in these patients.

Metabolism of mycotoxins, intracellular functions of vitamin B12, and neurological manifestations in patients with chronic toxigenic mold exposures. A review [In Process Citation]
ScientificWorldJournal 2004 Aug 26;4:736-45 (ISSN: 1537-744X)
Anyanwu EC; Morad M; Campbell AW
This paper evaluates the possible reasons for consistent vitamin B12 deficiency in chronic toxigenic mold exposures and the synergistic relationships with the possible mycotoxic effects on one-carbon metabolism that lead to the manifestations of clinical neuropathological symptomology. Vitamins are first defined in general and the nutritional sources of vitamin B12 are evaluated in particular. Since patients with chronic exposures to toxigenic molds manifest vitamin B12 deficiencies, the role of mycotoxins in vitamin B12 metabolism is assessed, and since vitamin B12 plays important biochemical roles in one-carbon metabolism, the synergistic effects with mycotoxins on humans are reviewed. An outline of the proposed mechanism by which mycotoxins disrupt or interfere with the normal functions of vitamin B12 on one-carbon metabolism is proposed. The overall functions of vitamin B12 as a source of coenzymes, in intracellular recycling of methionine, in methionine synthase reaction, in the prevention of chromosome breakage, in methylation, and in maintaining a one-carbon metabolic balance are reviewed. Signs, symptoms, and clinical neurological indications of vitamin B12 deficiency are also cited. By implication and derivation, it is likely that the interruption of the structure and function of vitamin B12 would in turn interfere with the one-carbon metabolism leading to the neurological manifestations. This review is an attempt to formulate a basis for an ongoing research investigation on the subject.

A time-series study of sick building syndrome: chronic, biotoxin-associated illness from exposure to water-damaged buildings [In Process Citation]
Neurotoxicol Teratol 2005 Jan-Feb;27(1):29-46 (ISSN: 0892-0362)
Shoemaker RC; House DE Chronic Fatigue Center, 500 Market Street, Suite 103, Pocomoke City, MD 21851, United States; Center for Research on Biotoxin-Associated Illness, 500 Market Street, Suite102, Pocomoke City, MD 21851, United States.
The human health risk for chronic illnesses involving multiple body systems following inhalation exposure to the indoor environments of water-damaged buildings (WDBs) has remained poorly characterized and the subject of intense controversy. The current study assessed the hypothesis that exposure to the indoor environments of WDBs with visible microbial colonization was associated with illness. The study used a cross-sectional design with assessments at five time points, and the interventions of cholestyramine (CSM) therapy, exposure avoidance following therapy, and reexposure to the buildings after illness resolution. The methodological approach included oral administration of questionnaires, medical examinations, laboratory analyses, pulmonary function testing, and measurements of visual function. Of the 21 study volunteers, 19 completed assessment at each of the five time points. Data at Time Point 1 indicated multiple symptoms involving at least four organ systems in all study participants, a restrictive respiratory condition in four participants, and abnormally low visual contrast sensitivity (VCS) in 18 participants. Serum leptin levels were abnormally high and alpha melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH) levels were abnormally low. Assessments at Time Point 2, following 2 weeks of CSM therapy, indicated a highly significant improvement in health status. Improvement was maintained at Time Point 3, which followed exposure avoidance without therapy. Reexposure to the WDBs resulted in illness reacquisition in all participants within 1 to 7 days. Following another round of CSM therapy, assessments at Time Point 5 indicated a highly significant improvement in health status. The group-mean number of symptoms decreased from 14.9+/-0.8 S.E.M. at Time Point 1 to 1.2+/-0.3 S.E.M., and the VCS deficit of approximately 50% at Time Point 1 was fully resolved. Leptin and MSH levels showed statistically significant improvement. The results indicated that CSM was an effective therapeutic agent, that VCS was a sensitive and specific indicator of neurologic function, and that illness involved systemic and hypothalamic processes. Although the results supported the general hypothesis that illness was associated with exposure to the WDBs, this conclusion was tempered by several study limitations. Exposure to specific agents was not demonstrated, study participants were not randomly selected, and double-blinding procedures were not used. Additional human and animal studies are needed to confirm this conclusion, investigate the role of complex mixtures of bacteria, fungi, mycotoxins, endotoxins, and antigens in illness causation, and characterize modes of action. Such data will improve the assessment of human health risk from chronic exposure to WDBs.

If course if mold is inside a wall bleach on the outside can't get to it inside.

Mold problems in houses are moisture problems. The mold is not only making you sick, it is rotting your house. So the solution is fix the moisture problem, be it a leaky roof, leaks around windows, or inadequate ventilation. Fix the leaks, fix anything that has rotted, then you can clean up any remaining mold and keep it gone.

It doesn't do much good to take bottles and bottles of meds if we don't clean up the environment we live in reasonably well.

They keep mold from forming on the damp evaporator coils and being circulated through the ducts.

This is a mold source that is easy to overlook, and not that hard to fix.

quote:

---

Originally posted by James H:
For mold inside ducts of central A/C systems, there are high intensity ultraviolet lamps that go inside your A/C system to kill anything passing through it.

.

---

My prozone purifier has the ultraviolet lamp. I think the ecoquest one does too. Not sure.

Next, Searched on line for a nontoxic mold cleaner. I bought something called zymocat (email me if this is off, the container is in the garage). You could use chlorine bleach, but it is an environmental nightmare and I am highly sensitive to it. Clorine works and is cheap tho. I thouroughly scrubbed off the now exposed 2x4's of all mold. Then coateed them with a preventive coat.

Only then did new drywall get put on the ceiling. Well, in the bathroom. I may always just leave joists exposed iin the pantry and layndry room. This gets expensive for me. I am waiting for less achy shoulders,to try and plaset. Or more money to flow, whichever comes first.

We still have a covered porch with a leaky roof and moldy, sagging drywall in ceiling. When the rains are done this year, may or so, this gets takled. I dont spend time in there luckily.

I could feel it in the laundry room before, a tightness in chest lungs from breathing in there.I used to take some black walnut tincture straight out of the dropper when I left that room. Do not move into a house unless you get rid of it first. Dont know if it is worth it to strip down to its studs and clean. You've got to do the math. And be realistic on how much you can do yourself or not

Regarding the moisture/dehumidifier issue, I agree that moisture is a necessary precondition for growth. However, once the mold is there, removing moisture will cause the spores to aerosol and then they're more easily inhaled.

I think the dehumidifiers are probably best for prevention, and for treatment of less occupied spaces.

We had dinner with a contractor tonight and he said he had a major mold problem in a storage space in a building. He used wet sandblasting and bleach and said since the wet sandblasted muck was removed there hasn't been a problem.

We'll see, I have a lot more to learn. I'm looking forward to the "Energy Medicine: How to Create a Healthy Home" conference in two weeks. I imagine mold will have to come up.

We'll probably wind up ripping apart the whole ceiling and floor and replacing it as well as using a sandblaster, bleach, and who knows what else. I'm still concerned it's spread more than we think or will solve in this way.

I'd be very interested to know what non-toxic antifungal it was that someone mentioned. I don't mean to be impersonal, I'm just a bit rushed at the moment.

I've got a fancy Aprilair central air system with UV and all installed, but the house is still without a roof and months from completion.

I hope in the future the central air system will help. What has concerned me about it more than its effectiveness against molds is the huge amount of electromagnetic radiation it's going to generate. But that's a separate topic I posted on before. Another double-edged sword, mother!@#$^%!!

I'd sooner savor but a sip of honor than have my fill of compromise. My soul says burn it and build the only mirror-glass igloo in LA. That would be spectacular, wouldn't it?

Thanks again everyone for your helpful info and suggestions, we'll get to the bottom, and top, of this.

A biologist/mold specialist recommended to
me by Massachusetts General Hospital doctor
did the work. I saw a mold specialist in
NY that mold specialist recommended. At the
time, the mold doctor said no further testing
in me was required because according to the
house testing, there wasn't a significant
amount of mold to make me sick.

But was there? Many doctors believe that the
mold cross-reacted with the lyme. We did
remedial work in the house, a thorough clean-up and threw lots of things out. Still, I
found later that I had lyme.

Just wanted to say I am allergic to molds too. Between 1985-90 I worked at a bank. My office was in one part of the bank which had seperate heating/ cooling. It also had this concrete tunnel for a return air to the furnace that a person 'could' get into, it was that big.

It was SOOO dirty and moldy and full of bugs, rodents (all dead ones, I think ) and who knows what else. Every year when the furnace kicked on the first time I would get 'very' ill. Lesser so after that but some days were worse than others.

To make matters worse my house at that time was on a lake and very low down to the water. Sometimes within 3' of water level. It was always more humid and down right wet sometimes. All I had was a crawl space,as you might imagine. How much mold and wet dirt was down there one can only imagine. Spiders abound in hords it was that damp. I could never kill them.

Then I moved to my present house where I grew up as a wee one many years ago. HERE it is within 1-2' of water table in the spring and very wet parts of the year. The drought the last couple years has kept the basement(yes I have one here) pretty dry. But normal years we let the water run in thru the walls and pump it out continuously with a sump pump generally 4-6 months of the year. But mold and reoccuring moisture is there every time it rains.

Having said all that, just reflecting in how long I have been living in 'potential' mold envirn. for 19 years prior to '69 in the present house. Only 69-77 'might' be more mold free but who knows Which was in 5 different places. 77-90 in the moldy or at least more than average damp house on the lake. And 90-05 back in the childhood home with basment swimming pool. Even thought of swimming in it when I was young. Generally tried to keep water level 'down' to 18" or so but sometimes would be 'much' higher. Parents years ago tried combatting it by pouring another floor over the old one and made the head room short. Heat ducts are a bell(head) ringer. To NO avail, it is still the same but just those many inches shallower.

They recommend that you not use bleach on porous items like drywall. They give pretty detailed info on how to go about it. From what I have seen, it seems reasonably reliable.

I personally found it was essential to clean up the mold in my living space. Otherwise you are continually exposed. It also was very helpful to use a mold free diet for a time. Reducing the level of exposure, inside and out, gives your body a chance to deal with what is already there.

I had to have the door removed from my shower. It was an old glass one, and the whole inside of the frame was full of mold, because the seals leaked.

I also use air purifiers, because CA air is full of mold. I've used both a HEPA filter and an ionic/UV device, and both help.

Mold is a serious issue, and will make you vulnerable to other problems. Some people are more susceptible than others, but the understanding now is that it impacts everyone in some way.

Trevor, did you know it is now illegal in CA to sell a house with mold in it, and not disclose it? It is becomeing an issue of litigation with serious consequences.

The fungi are also well covered in the set of CD's that you can run at home with all the other bacteria and parasites. They are also in the KMT22 device as "microbial inhibitory frequencies", with all the inherent infections that are found in every Lyme patient besides just Lyme and Co-infections. You can get at these problems by pressing one button and letting the program run. The carrier frequencies are selected based on many years of research that have been shown to create elevated intracellular levels of ATP, the gasoline of the cells. With increased ATP there is increased cellular detoxification, increased immune competence and icnreased systemic vitality. All pre-programmed in the proper sequence, time exposure, etc. You can take it into the bathtub and soak while it is running - it runs for hours on a V9 battery.

If I had that problem at my house to the point where it would bother me, I would probably go on a vacation and leave on the CD's full blast on the loud speakers. Have to ask Dr. K. about that. If you use them to affect the resident microorganisms inside your body, the volume can stay so low that it is barely audible. I used to let them run as we went to bed.

We should not forget that we created many of these problems ourselves. Research going back to the thirties very clearly shows that each microorganism grows and prospers in certain electromagnetic environments, and is inhibited in its growth and shrinks and shrivels up in other electromagnetic environments. They are frequency dependent. (that knowledge has been applied in the above devices, CD's and KMT22).

It does not matter whether it is a sound frequency, a light frequency or any frequency of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Some octaves may be in the light spectrum, lower in the sound, or even lower frequencies may be in the 60 hertz range of our electric fields in the house that has become detrimental to more evolved organisms like ourselves and has helped these microorganisms to grow.

This is not an accepted truth yet, the science is there, but then Dr. K. is always a thousand miles ahead of anyone else.

I strongly pay attention to our electromagnetic exposure, especially when we were still very toxic and sick.

So light the clean candles and start making love - you don't need any electricity for that!

Mold is part of life - we just have overstepped our boundaries. Another pill is not going to fix it. We need to change our attitude toward our world, period.

Just as The Plague was finally brought under control a few centuries ago when we cleaned up the garbage around our homes and reduced the rat population, who where hosts to the fleas that gave us the Yersinia Pestis - killing untold numbers of people.

Then we played around with Syphillis that stayed until people decided they had to change their personal and sexual habits.

Then came the Tuberculosis that was able to survive in dark and damp houses. We changed our food and hygiene, spent more time outdoors in nature and daylight and we got rid of it (until just recently?????)

Then came the humongous destruction of our environment in the 60's and 70's with the use of insecticides, pesticides, formaldehyde and many thousands more chemicals that had and have never been tested as to the potential damage to our food chain, agriculture, and the end of the food chain - us. Countless healthy organisms disappeared.

This is still happening every day, with no end in sight.

I will not go on - it literally makes me ill to think about this - what have we done to ourselves and what are we leaving for our children? I am very certain that another anti-this and anti-that produced by the pharma industry is not going to stem these epidemics. These pills and tablets certainly did not solely alleviate my or my husband's problems. It took a total change in what was so customary at one time earlier in our life.

Throwing more chlorox at it is not the solution. Temporarily, may be yes. But we do need to change the way we think and do.

Take care.

P.S. Would recommend you use the "enzyme" stuff - not chlorine. Chlorine is one of the largest environmental polluters there is!

what is the name of the nasal spray for fungul infections?

ArtistD, I definitely will be getting a mold expert out here. I'm worried that the financiers of this project will not feel the same dire need or appreciate the significance of this the way I do. Wish me luck!

Just Don, there's no roof that's complete, there is wood that's been sealed with Dynoseal and covered in Sharkskin. The whole place was tarped while I was out of town, but not before the intense rains and after tarping there was much less ventilation: bad.

No one lives in the house, it's not at that stage at all. While in LA, I live in a house on the same piece of property about 100 yards away on a different street.

At this point, I'm concerned not only about people going in the house under construction and being exposed, but also about spores catching rides on wind and coming to visit this other house. Thanks for your post.

riversinger, amazing site, thank you for referring me, I've printed all 80 pages of the mold stuff. This will be a long night, but in the morning I'll be an expert .

mountainmomma, I'll look into that product, thanks again.

I forget now who mentioned it, but I absolutely agree that the molds interact with lyme and other microbes. This was what we saw over and over at the CCID.

Genetic material from numerous different microorganisms and human cells was found linked together. These guys exchange plasmids, covalently closed double-stranded DNA molecules. The "wide host range plasmids" will multiply in many different species, engendering hybrids. This is a way in which resistance to abx develops, via the R plasmids.

So, while our main target at CCID was simian cytomegalovirus genes, we found genomes resembling exotic "Dr. Moroeu" smorgasbords of nucleic acids.

GIGI, hi, how are you doing? Thanks for your post. I'm really looking forward to the conference, it should be great.

I think the CD's and microcurrent are capable of killing these guys, but I fear they're not enough and probably not an appropriate first line of defense.

From what I recall, the CD's are meant to stimulate the immune system to fight specific microbes. I'm not sure they would have any effect on mold growing on wood.

Of course I could be very wrong, but my understanding of the purpose of the microbial noises on the CD's requires an infected organism with a capable immune response, and to the microbes themselves may actually just sound like their friends. Would this make them flee or die? Or would it encourage their more rapid dissemination?

The microcurrent is a different story. From what I've been told, they do not like these frequencies and will move away from them. So, rather that blasting them with the CD's, maybe buying about 20 signal enhancers, placing them all over the house, and then placing a unit on one or more of them would be more effective. No?

However, even if they all died, that wouldn't be enough. From the very brief glance I've had at Dr. S's work, this could in fact be worse. Instead of spores flying around the house, I'd have mycotoxins flying around the house.

It seems clear to me that thorough physical removal is what's essential.

I appreciated your overview of the many plagues our species has dealt with. I'm not sure I agree with the underlying assumption that we're doing harm to the world. To humans yes, and humans could end this world. But one organism's poison is another's caviar.

I don't think we will end life on earth. I think what's more likely, and what's more in keeping with evolution, is that we're speeding up human change, evolution or devolution.

I was talking with someone in Dr. K's office about how we all used to be type O blood. To make a long story short, organisms that thrive on what is toxic to us will probably take over.

Are you familiar with the archaea? These are microbes that live in the Dead Sea, in volcanoes, in boilng hot springs and deep in the ice of Antarctica.

Life is hardy. Life is robust. Life is sneaky.

Maybe there are already humans who are adapted in this way to benefit from what harms the rest of us. Our current president and his cohorts sure act like this next species, don't they?

My contention is we have the most safe and wholesome food supply of the world. We need to protect it so we dont have to send troops to Brazil or anywhere to safeguard our food supply. With more and more ways and regulations we limit our food supply, namely feed yard regulations, which will only result in more and more imported meat. Same with fruit and vegetables. Our wheat, corn, and soybeans are entirely safe . GMO's have safened our food becase we elliminate spraying more things on the product. It enables efficient prodution. If all of our food would be produced as the Amish do(for instance) we would have to import far 'more' food and imported food means LESS control over what is in our food chain.

I also take issue with the "mad cow" issue And stupidity about this subject. Everyone is so concerned but the real reality is it is completely a non issue because we dont have it. Besides have any of us ate cow brains or spinal tissue lately? We kill thousands of people every day because we dont buckle our seat belts(ME included here), dont cook our food properly, and a whole host of other controllable things in our life that we just take for granted. If we had same hype and feelings for fixing these things with the same energy they expend worrying bout something that dosent exist.

Get the facts. It is NOT AN ISSUE, eat away, its good and healthy.

The fear that animals are pumped full of drugs is also a bad phoebia because lots of cattle see no antibiotics. And if they ever were given some the half life is tremndously short and they are watered out.

Chicken and fish are not necessarily healthier than beef or pork. Valuable vitamens and minerals are in every one of the four said meats of choice. More things can be wrong with chicken tho that beef. And make you sicker if not safely done. You just have to know how preperation is done on each product. Vegetarians cant be healthy without a well rounded food intake clear of any pathogens.

quote:

---

Originally posted by troutscout:
Riversinger,

what is the name of the nasal spray for fungul infections?

Trout

---

Trout, are you thinking about the Nizoral? I didn't find it was very helpful for me, but some other people did well. I think it has to be made at a compounding pharmacy.

Dr. Teitalbaum (Fatigued to Fantastic) recommends another antifungal nasal spray. I think he has it listed on his website. Never tried it, but it sounds like it has the right ingredients.

I have found nasal rinsing is helpful when I have exposure. I think it physically removes the molds, as long as they aren't actually infected.

ONE has candida overgrowth before contacting lyme, and as the lyme lowers the immune system, ones candida is worse, so the symtpoms of candida get worse.

One very common symptom of a bad candida infection is being sensitive to mold.

MAYBE those with a severe candida infection are the ones sensitive to mold?

thinking out loud, could be totally wrong here.

maybe treat the candida along with lyme and you get well. TOUGH when on antibiotics though if you have candida.

Trish

Maybe the other molds compete with it, don't know. But it is not a problem for me, so far.