Colloidal silver solution is taken by the patient. Used as early as the 1800s and is currently considered a drug supplement http://www.bio.uni.edu/cei/lyme.html

see in-vitro studies http://www.silvermedicine.org/scientificstudies.html

in-vivo studies against HIV http://www.silverinstitute.org/news/4b01.html

nail in the coffin
read LETTER: COLLOIDAL SILVER IN PERSPECTIVE http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/silver2.html

Anecdote and opinion follows.

Silver is great in very short-term applications (in combination with some other substances) for Lyme, but it is only one of the 100 things one needs to do to get at Lyme and the inherent infections. It needs the closest supervision by a doctor who undersands metal toxicity! Then it becomes a neurotoxin and is even harder to remove from the body than mercury. And that's tough enough to get out.

Centuries ago we tried to cure syphilis with mercury. It literally killed Mozart - not the syphilis, but the cure.

Take care.

quote:

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Originally posted by brentb:
I believe I got cured from Lyme with traditional abx including the cyst busting flagyl but with lyme you never know for sure.

I don't mean to be confrontational, but how can this topic not be? If your eluding to the fact I may have mental problems. Darn right I do.

---

And post all your links here Thanks.

Several countries, including Switzerland, Germany and Australia have given approval for the use of colloidal silver and hydrogen peroxide as a drinking water disinfectant.

quote:

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Originally posted by brentb:
hmm.. not posting correctly. sorry treepatrol but I get called lots of names. my bad.

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Strep A is a very nasty "stealth pathogen" just like Bb. How it does this is due to the fact the cell wall is made up of the same stuff as our muscle, tendons, etc. The immune system has no chance. It has 120 strains. they range from strep throat, "flesh eating disease"(toxins that kill tissue), scarlet fever, to a chronic strain that would cause severe rheumatioid arthritis or subdural empyema if it's in your sinuses. (fyi do NOT screw around with strep throat!) This is another bug that cannot be tested for (sound familiar) so clinical diagnoses is paramount. Presently docs are not aware of this disease so here are the sickening facts.

* About 55% of patients have neurological deficits at the time of hospital discharge.

* The mortality rate has continued to decline because of early diagnosis and treatment, more accurate localization with head CT scan, early sinus drainage, and recognition of the prominent role of anaerobes in the disease.

* The high incidence of morbidity (ie, neurological deficits) is attributed to the short follow-up period and low mortality rate. Very ill patients who would have died in the past now survive with deficits.

quote:

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Originally posted by ivebeentricked:
what's the deal with the strep a being a co-infection...can you please explain that to me...it would really help me a lot, thanks

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quote:

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Originally posted by brentb:
>what's the deal with the strep a being a co-infection

As to co-infection, Bb does not "trick" the immune system as strep A does. It beats the hell out of our immune system with brute force. With this weakened immune system your a sitting duck for pathogens that normally one could fight off.

---

But it does trick it in many ways and it does beat it up with brute force also.

Step A uses some different strokes for different folks.
Bacteriophage lytic enzymes quickly destroy the cell wall of the host bacterium to release progeny phage. Because such lytic enzymes specifically kill the species in which they were produced, they may represent an effective way to control pathogenic bacteria without disturbing normal microflora. In this report, we studied a murein hydrolase from the streptococcal bacteriophage C1 termed lysin. This enzyme is specific for groups A, C, and E streptococci, with little or no activity toward several oral streptococci or other commensal organisms tested. Using purified lysin in vitro, we show that 1,000 units (10 ng) of enzyme is sufficient to sterilize a culture of 107 group A streptococci within 5 seconds. When a single dose of lysin (250 units) is first added to the oral cavity of mice, followed by 107 live group A streptococci, it provides protection from colonization (28.5% infected, n = 21) compared with controls without lysin (70.5% infected, n = 17) (P < 0.03). Furthermore, when lysin (500 units) was given orally to 9 heavily colonized mice, no detectable streptococci were observed 2 h after lysin treatment. In all, these studies show that lysin represents a unique murein hydrolase that has a rapid lethal effect both in vitro and in vivo on group A streptococci, without affecting other indigenous microorganisms analyzed. This general approach may be used to either eliminate or reduce streptococci from the upper respiratory mucosal epithelium of either carriers or infected individuals, thus reducing associated disease.

Introduction
Top
Abstract
Introduction
Materials and Methods
Results
Discussion
References
Streptococcus pyogenes (group A -hemolytic streptococci), the primary etiologic agent of bacterial pharyngitis, is one of few human pathogens that remain uniformly sensitive to penicillin (1). Additionally, the advent of rapid group A streptococcal diagnostic test kits over the last decade has allowed early initiation of antibiotic treatment. Despite these factors, streptococcal-mediated pharyngitis is reported in over 2.5 million people annually in the United States, >80% of these cases occurring in children under 15 years of age (2). However, streptococcal pharyngitis classically is not a reportable disease, and it has been speculated that the documented number of these pharyngitis cases may be considerably underestimated. Additionally, penicillin fails to completely eradicate streptococci in up to 35% of patients treated for pharyngitis (3), and carriage rates as high as 50% have been reported in close contact areas such as day care centers (4). This high carriage rate contributes to the spread of streptococcal pharyngitis (5) and correlates with outbreaks of rheumatic fever (6). Although eradication of the carrier state would reduce the pool of streptococci in the population and thus streptococcal-related diseases, to date the only treatment is an extensive regimen of antibiotics (7) that may increase streptococcal resistance to macrolides, which are often prescribed for patients with penicillin allergies (8).

At the end of a bacteriophage lytic cycle in a sensitive bacterial host, all double-stranded DNA bacteriophages produce a lytic system that consists of a holin and at least one peptidoglycan hydrolase, or "lysin", capable of degrading the bacterial cell wall. Lysins can be endo--N-acetylglucosaminidases or N-acetylmuramidases (lysozymes), which act on the sugar moiety, endopeptidases, which cleave the peptide cross bridge, or more commonly, an N-acetylmuramoyl-L-alanine amidase, which hydrolyzes the amide bond connecting the sugar and peptide constituents. Typically, the holin is expressed in the late stages of phage infection forming a pore in the cell membrane allowing the lysin(s) to gain access to the cell wall peptidoglycan resulting in release of progeny phage (for review, see ref. 9). Lysin, added to sensitive organisms in the absence of bacteriophage, lyses the cell wall producing a phenomenon known as "lysis from without."

The virulent C1 bacteriophage specifically infect group C streptococci and produce a lysin that has been partially purified and characterized (10, 11). C1 phage lysin can cause "lysis from without" in groups A and E as well as group C streptococci (12, 13). This unique activity has been exploited as a tool in group A streptococcal studies to isolate surface molecules including M proteins (14), to lyse cells for DNA extraction, and to make protoplasts when used in a hypertonic environment (15).

Because there exists a potential use of the C1 phage lysin for the prevention and control of group A streptococcal pharyngitis, we examined its killing ability on these organisms, its actions on other streptococci and oral microflora, and its effectiveness in a mouse model of pharyngitis. This is, to our knowledge, the first report investigating the prophylactic use of a phage encoded lysin in an in vivo model system.

Published online before print March 20, 2001, 10.1073/pnas.061038398
UCANT INSERT LINK ITS TO LONG

Spirochetes attacking Lymphocytes

Usually, any thing that'll kill us, will kill a microbe too.

There's a very fine line between efficacy and toxicity, and I don't think any one knows where that is with these metals.

I have read here, that people infected with lyme, also report they have heavy metal problems also, especially mercury.
SO Hmmmmmmmmmm... why aren't the people with high mercury levels cured of Lyme..?

Barb

I did not know about the Lysin. Thanks. Nice link showing the brute force of Bb. You are correct to the tricking part of Bb.
I'm sure you read about how some spirochetes are able to rip apart our B-cell's and wear the pieces as a cloak against our immune system. Amazing and frightening,it's got both brawn and brains.

quote:

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Originally posted by brentb:
>But it does trick it in many ways and it does beat it up with brute force also.

I did not know about the Lysin. Thanks. Nice link showing the brute force of Bb. You are correct to the tricking part of Bb.
I'm sure you read about how some spirochetes are able to rip apart our B-cell's and wear the pieces as a cloak against our immune system. Amazing and frightening,it's got both brawn and brains.

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As Dr. K. said in this article, now already 5 years old, there is more to it than just Lyme. The underlying factors were already present before the Lyme infection hit. Lyme, in most cases, is "the straw that broke the camel's back". The body decided - enough is enough and stopped being able to respond any longer. Many people have and carry Lyme infections, and manage quite well until other heavy-weights come into play, such as stress, environmental exposures that finally are too much for the body to continue fighting, etc.; or the five pounds of sugar and junk food just simply become too much for the body to find the proper resources to fight back.

There are many contributing causes, I am sure. We have to find them and eliminate them. That is basically what we did - step by step, as these causes were found by ART testing.

As you will notice in the text below, the line between therapeutic metals and toxic metals is very, very thin. Silver is great if you know where the limit is and respect it. I did it for just a very short term (about a month). Some protocols that are out there are quite involved with other agents added. That's something your doctor has to decide. In my opinion, if he/she goes into silver, etc., he/she should be well informed. This is not something one does "flying by the seat of your pants".

"Heavy Metals and Chronic Diseases
by Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt, M.D., PhD

To be presented at the Annual Enderlein Conference in Scottsdale, Arizona, Feb.2000

In the late phase of the Roman Empire it was considered a privilege of the reigning aristocracy to drink out of lead cups and many of the water lines in the city of Rome were made out of lead pipes. It took several hundred years before the physicians of their time established the link between mental illness - affecting mostly the aristocracy - and the contamination of the drinking water with lead.

In the 1700s the use of mercury for the treatment of both acute and chronic infections gained favor and again, it took decades before the neurotoxic and immunosuppressive effects of mercury were well documented within the medical community. In the time of Mozart, who himself died of mercury toxicity during a course of treatment for syphilis, any pathologist in Vienna was familiar with the severe grayish discoloration of organs in those who died from mercury toxicity and other organ related destructive changes caused by mercury.

In the case of mercury the therapeutic dilemma is most clear: mercury can be used to treat infections but - not unlike chemotherapy - also causes a different type of illness itself and may kill the patient. The same is true for most metals: small doses may have a therapeutic effect in a short term, life saving direction, but may also cause their own illness.

Most metals have a very narrow therapeutic margin before their neurotoxic, in some cases carcinogenic effect, outweighs the benefits. Toxic metals may be fungicidal and bactericidal, maybe even virucidal, but many foreign invaders have the ability to adapt over time to a toxic metal environment in a way, that stuns scientists and certainly outpaces the ability of the cells of a higher organism - like ours - to adapt in a similar way.

So in the long run, the situation looks different: the cells of the body are harmed by toxic metals whereas the invading microorganisms can often thrive in a heavy metal environment. Research by Ludwig, Voll and others in Germany, by Omura and myself here in the US, showed that microorganisms tend to set up their housekeeping in those body compartments, that have the highest pollution with toxic metals.

The body's own immune cells are incapacitated in those areas whereas the microorganisms multiply and thrive in an undisturbed way. The teeth, jawbone, Peyers patches in the gutwall, the groundsystem (connective tissue) and the autonomic ganglia are common sites of metal storage - where microorganisms thrive. Furthermore, those body areas also are vasoconstricted and hypoperfused (by blood, nutrients and oxygen), which fosters the growth of anaerobic germs, fungi and viruses.

The list of symptoms of mercury toxicity alone, published by DAMS (dental amalgam support group), includes virtually any illness known to humankind: chronic fatigue, depression and joint pains are the most common.

To keep it simple: mercury alone can mimic or cause any illness currently known - or contribute to it.

Modern Medicine has taken a giant leap in the last few years through the discovery and use of the PCR test (polymerase chain reaction). Virtually any illness looked at seems to be caused or contributed to by a chronic infection. A study performed by the VA administration (and published in JADA, April 1998) on 10 000 US veterans showed that most coronary heart disease really started as an endothelial infection, in most cases caused by microorganisms from the mouth. Another study showed that close to 70 % of all TMJ syndromes in women are caused or contributed to by chlamydia trachomatis. Childhood diabetes is often caused by either a cytomegaly or influenza virus infection. And on and on.....

Has Guenther Enderlein not basically found the same truth over 60 years ago? What took so long? Like Bechamp and others he found that infections cannot thrive in the body, unless the milieu is changed in the first place. Rather then looking at the pH, osmolality and the other factors (today also jokingly called the "BTA factors" - from an instrumentation available in the US called "Bio-terrain assessment", which is really a modernization of an instrument developed by French researcher and hydrologist Vincent), I suggest diagnosing and treating toxic metal residues in the body along with appropriate treatment of the microorganisms. As long as compartmentalized toxic metals are present in the body, microorganisms have a fortress that cannot be conquered by antibiotics, Enderlein remedies, ozone therapy, UV light therapy and others.

To diagnose metal deposits in the different body compartments on a living patient is not easy (see my article in Explore: Vol??, 1997), since most "scientific"tests are based on grinding up tissue and then examining it with a microscope, spectroscopy or other laboratory based procedures. Most elegant, suitable and easy to learn is Dr.Yoshiaki Omura's resonance phenomenon between identical substances : both his bi-digital O-ring test or ART (autonomic response testing) are extensions of a regular physical exam, that can be done without any instrument. It is a very accurate diagnostic tool and makes it possible to not only diagnose where in the body which metal is stored but also helps to predict which metal detoxifying agent is most suitable to remove the toxic metal from that particular body region.

The metals found most commonly are : mercury, lead, aluminum and cadmium.

Amongst the detoxifying-agents most commonly used are the following: DMPS, DMSA, Captomer, D-Penicillamine, I.V.Vit.C, I.V.Glutathione, Pleo-Chelate, DL-Methionine (Redoxal), branched chain amino acids, Chlorella Pyreneidosa, Chitosan, activated charcoal, cilantro and yellow dock. Non biochemical approaches have been developed by myself and include electromobilization (using the Electro-Bloc), mercury vapor lamp mobilization and others.

So the approach to treating illness in a way, that acknowledges these observations, has to include the following:

diagnosing the site of toxic metal compartmentalization

diagnosing the exact type of metal
determining the most appropriate and least toxic metal removal agent

determining other appropriate synergistic methods and agents (i.e.kidney drainage remedies, blood protective agents such as garlic or Vit.E., agents that increase fecal absorption and excretion of mobilized Hg, exercise, lymphatic drainage etc.)

diagnosing the secondary infection

determining an appropriate antibiotic regimen (medical antibiotics, antifungals, antivirals, Enderlein remedies, ozone therapy etc.)

monitoring the patient carefully from visit to visit to respond quickly to untoward effects, most often caused by plugged up exit routes (drainage, drainage, drainage)

With this approach many patients that were chronically ill and did not respond to other approaches before will improve or get well.

However, the thoughts expressed sofar do not answer one important basic question:

Why do some patients that are exposed to mercury, deposit the toxin in their hypothalamus (and develop multiple hormone problems), in the limbic system (depression), others in the adrenals (fatigue), in the long bones (osteoporosis, leukemia), some in the pelvis (interstitial cystitis), in the autonomic and sensory ganglia (chronic pain syndromes), some in the connective tissue (scleroderma, lupus), some in the cranial nerves (tinnitus, cataracts, TMJ problems, loss of smell etc.etc), some in the muscles (fibromyalgia)?

As you would assume, multiple causes can be identified:

past physical trauma, such as closed head injury, will make the brain susceptible to become a storage site for lead, aluminum and mercury.

food allergies: they often cause a low grade encephalitis or joint inflammation, again setting up those areas to become targets for toxic deposits

geopathic stress: we found significant numbers of patients sleeping on underground water lines or too close to electrical equipment. Metals concentrate in the body regions most compromised

scars and other foci: scars can create abnormal electrical signals which can alter the function of the ANS (autonomic nervous system). The abnormal impulses often cause areas of vasoconstriction and hypoperfusion, which again become metal storage sites.
Structural abnormalities: TMJ-problems and Cranio-Sacral dysfunctions often are responsible for impairment of blood flow and lymphatic drainage in affected areas

Biochemical deficiencies: if the patient has a chronic zinc deficiency, the prostate, which has a large turn-over of zinc, starts to incorporate other 2-valent metals, such as Hg ++, Pb++

Environmental toxicity (solvents, pesticides, wood preservatives etc.): these agents have a synergistic effect with most toxic metals. Metals will often accumulate in body parts that have been chemically injured at a prior time

Unresolved psychoemotional trauma and unresolved problems in the family system
The last issue is by far the most common factor determining where which metal will be stored in the body and which infectious agent will thrive in what area of the body. This issue has been underestimated by most, due to a lack of appropriate, quick and precise therapeutic interventions."

Please note that this article dates back to 2000. A lot has changed since then and additional solutions have been found. The agents mentioned are not all necessarily used on patients. ART testing determines what is best to use and what not to use. This is just a general overview of the approach.

I have not met a Lyme patient who got well without addressing all conditions.

Take care.

I could not agree any more on this or the rest of the article. I've read somewhere on a possible link with aluminum and alzheimers. We must all watch out what we put into our systems! That said I'll post one of my original links.

Modern electrolytic colloidal silver is an oligodynamic (effective in ultra-low concentration) naturally microbicidal earth element by virtue of disabling only the metabolic enzymes of anaerobic unicellular micro-organisms, yet is uniquely harmless to mammals at effective concentrations (Thurman R et al, 1st International Conference on Gold & Silver in Medicine, Silver Institute, Wash, 1989). Modern soil depletion, food processing and water treatment (flocculation and filtration) mitigate against reliably receiving adequate dietary amounts of this protective element, which constitutes about 0.07ppm (parts per million) in the earth's crust and until fairly recently, was readily available via the food chain and was supplemented by food related silverware without any epidemiological evidence of harm.

Rosemary Jacobs, the most popularised argyria victim, who is used to demonise colloidal silver, was poisoned more than forty years ago by "silver nose drops of unknown composition" (NEJM, 340(20), 1999). There are no cases of argyria in modern medical history as a result of electro-colloidal silver, despite its popularity. All reference to toxicities, on careful checking, leads directly to industrial exposures or abuse of orthodoxy sanctioned, now discontinued medical silver products, usually not even colloidal silver and if so, always by a defunct grind method, and in cases of severe toxicities, intravenous injections in gram-plus quantities in animal experiments (US EPA, Integrated Risk Information System, ``Silver'', 1998). The key to the safety and efficacy of modern colloidal/ionic silver is its atomic and sub-atomic particle size and hence greater individual number and total active surface area.

Exaggerated commercial health claims for colloidal silver use against serious medical conditions and OTC or self-treatment without adequate supervision or well-informed protocols, adds legitimacy to regulator's concerns, yet much misinformation about colloidal silver toxicity has its genesis in the protectionist pharma-cartel and its bought and / or ideologically biased lap-dog regulatory agencies. As an example, consider this paradox, forced upon the Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration when it recently attempted to regulate colloidal silver as a medicine because of ``significant toxicity and no legitimate uses'' but had to amend its own illogical legislation so as to effectively exempt colloidal silver provided it is sold for use in the ``purification or treatment of drinking water without therapeutic claims'' (Commonwealth of Australia, Special Gazette No S 486, 20 December 2002). The obvious absurdity is that a substance cannot be toxic and useless only when sold with therapeutic claims, yet safe and efficacious if added to drinking water at the same approved concentrations, in this instance, over an entire lifetime.

Some foods accumulate silver, eg mushrooms may boost silver consumption up to between 200 to 300ppm per day. Approximately 10% of orally-ingested silver enters systemic circulation and of that, up to 98% is gathered up by metallothioneins, which transport, store and detoxify essential and nonessential trace metals (Silver, The Healthful Metal, Silver Institute, Wash, December 31, 1999). Argyria, a bluish-grey discoloration of the skin, although not aesthetic, is extremely rare, is ``non-pathogenic'' / ``medically benign'' and a daily ingestion dose of 1-30gram would be required to induce the condition (Fowler B, Nordberg G, ``Silver'', in Handbook on the Toxicology of Metals, Friberg L et al, eds. Elsevier Sci Pub, Vol 2, 521-31, 1986); (US EPA, Integrated Risk Information System: `Silver', 1998). Approximately 3.5gram daily over an entire lifetime will be required to cause argyria, according to a year 2000 estimate by international trace mineral expert, Prof Alexander Schauss, PhD, Director of Life Sciences at John Hopkins University, in response to FDA proposals, which is 10,000 times that advocated.

Ionic/atomic silver is an effective antimicrobial at concentrations astronomical orders of magnitude below what is harmful to higher life forms. Concentrations necessary to sterilise drinking water (or by extension, body fluids - we are 70% water) contaminated with pathogens are 40-200 gamma / .04-.2ppm (1ppm = 1000 gamma) (Thomson N, Comprehensive Inorganic Chemistry, Pergamon, NY, 1973). Most colloidal silver available in South Africa is generated by a water purification device from the Gaia Research Institute, producing 1ppm of silver (and possibly a suggested microbicidal synergism with 5-15 drops of hydrogen peroxide). One teaspoon (5ml) of 1ppm colloidal silver in a glass (250ml) of water equals 20ppb. Since drinking water guidelines relate to lifetime exposure for the most susceptible sub-groups, calculated at 2 litres a day over an entire lifetime, one could safely consume 8 glasses each with 5 teaspoons (25 ml) of 1 ppm of colloidal silver every day without risk of argyria, the only and purely hypothetical risk to users. Most commonly used is a mere teaspoon in a glass of water 3 or 4 times daily.

Colloidal Silver and hydrogen peroxide, especially in combination, exhibit significant microbial inactivation at concentrations that pose no health risk according to the EEC, WHO and US EPA. Several countries, including Switzerland, Germany and Australia have given approval for the use of colloidal silver and hydrogen peroxide as a drinking water disinfectant. The EEC and Israel Ministry of Health have specifically approved the use of colloidal silver as a drinking water disinfectant at an MCL (Maximum Contaminant Level) of 80ppb (Pedahzur, R et al, Water Sci Technol, 31(5-6), 1995). Widespread use might result in potential for uptake of silver ions by humans, but research suggests that: ``risks are minimal under all likely scenarios'' (Final Report: Evaluation of the Efficacy of a New Secondary Disinfectant Formulation Using Hydrogen Peroxide and Silver. US EPA NNCER, Dec 3, 2001).

The USA EPA has declared that ``silver does not cause adverse health effects'' and set a MCL at 100 ppb for all drinking water. Recently an EU Drinking Water Standard proposed removing any upper limit for silver in drinking water, following the WHO's Guidelines for Drinking Water Quality, which states that: "it is not necessary to recommend any health-based guidelines for silver as it is not hazardous to human health" ("Silver Water Purification Systems Offer Reliable Alternative to Chlorine", The Silver Institute, Wash, March 25, 1997). The World Health Organisation still advocates 100ppb levels of silver for drinking water (Pelkonen K et al, Toxicology, 186(1-2), 2003). I shall resist arguing for the efficacy of colloidal silver against bacteria, viruses, spore-forming organisms, yeasts and mould fungi, since this should be beyond dispute. As mentioned previously, we are comprised of 75% water. By restoring and maintaining the integrity of that water, we restore and maintain the integrity of the body by freeing it of pathogens. Herein lies the paradox of philosophically diametrically opposed public health authorities both praising and demonizing the same substance. I shall leave it to the now informed reader to decide either way.

Stuart Thomson

Director, Gaia Research Institute, Knysna.

The closest we came was when ART happened to test positive for a certain infection or toxin and a certain symptom was dominant at that same time also. We could then guess that this particular symptom was caused by such and such. Neurotoxins are neurotoxins.

You may need to study the works presented on The German Commission E with regards to Silver--all forms, since as GiGi states, it is approved for short term treatment for many infectious agents----but not to be used for months and yrs on end--since it can cause metal toxicity.

I've known people who have quite literally been drinking cups of the stuff a day---and at that high of levels---it is a darn good neurotoxin!!!!

At that level of ingestion--you have a pretty good chance of just adding insult to injury with regards to the neurotoxins and the brain

quote:

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Originally posted by yankee in black:

You may need to study the works presented on The German Commission E with regards to Silver--all forms,.... it is approved for short term treatment for many infectious agents----

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YIB, do you have access to the German Commission info on silver? If they have done studies, I would very much like to see them. Even excerpts would be great.

It is extremely difficult to find any reputable studies done on silver in any form.

Thanks!

If it is then Switzerland, Germany, Australia,and Israel will be poisoning it's entire population! That would suck

Please read carefully.
WHO's Guidelines for Drinking Water Quality, which states that: "it is not necessary to recommend any health-based guidelines for silver as it is not hazardous to human health"

CHLORINE is also an effective antibacterial and is approved for use in drinking water, but I personally would not swallow Clorox based on that approval.

Everything under the sun has been tried by somebody to try and cure this stubborn stuff. Unfortunately nothing has yet been found that can really be called a cure.

Lots of different things have been helpful for different people though. We just want to be careful that we do not do harm by overdoing something that might be helpful used more sparingly. This applies to antibiotics, herbals, or anything we might do. Out bodies are alot more complex than any bacteria, and in many ways very fragile.

WHO Guide

The other side of silver

Soluble silver salts, specially AgNO3, are lethal in concentrations of up to 2g (0.070 oz). Silver compounds can be slowly absorbed by body tissues, with the consequent bluish or blackish skin pigmentation (argiria).

An LD50 value is the amount of a solid or liquid material that it takes to kill 50% of test animals (for example, mice or rats) in one dose.

A Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) is the maximum amount or concentration of a chemical that a worker may be exposed to under OSHA regulations.

MSDS

Not according to the WHO. Anything is toxic if used in large enough amounts. As to chlorox, I put c silver in my sinuses on a daily basis. I would NOT do the same with chlorox. The analogy has no merit whatsoever.

quote:

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Originally posted by cootiegirl:
This is all beyond my scope at such a time of the night, but I just wanted to say welcome to brent and lymerayja for coming on over to this board. And we will only hug you if you want to be hugged.....
cootiegirl

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quote:

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Originally posted by brentb:
>Isn't there a less than subtle difference between silver IN drinking water and silver AS drinking water?

Not according to the WHO. Anything is toxic if used in large enough amounts. As to chlorox, I put c silver in my sinuses on a daily basis. I would NOT do the same with chlorox. The analogy has no merit whatsoever.

also AgNo3 is not Ag+, not even close

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quote:

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Originally posted by liz28:
Please post all the abx you have tried that didn't work for you, in the order you took them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by brentb:
>Isn't there a less than subtle difference between silver IN drinking water and silver AS drinking water?

Not according to the WHO. Anything is toxic if used in large enough amounts. As to chlorox, I put c silver in my sinuses on a daily basis. I would NOT do the same with chlorox. The analogy has no merit whatsoever.

also AgNo3 is not Ag+, not even close

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Brent dont get pod I just found that on the WHO site I even posted it the link.
I got it there on the who site because you keep talking about WHO and thats what I found. Post your link to the WHO site Thanks.

What being in a biofilm means to bacteria

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lots of bacteria are planktonic - they float around in water; microbiologists since the time of Pasteur have conducted most bacterial studies using suspended bacterial cultures.

But most of the bacteria that cause us problems are sessile - attached to a surface - and they live in biofilms. Once bacteria attach to a surface, they change.

The most obvious change is that they begin to excrete a slimy material (which has provided the basis for coining the word biofilm).

But we are learning that other changes made by attached bacteria are profound, though invisible. In fact, researchers have now shown that a bacterium which attaches to a surface "turns on" a whole different set of genes, which makes it effectively a significantly different organism to deal with.

If researchers continue to study cells in suspended cultures, when the actual problems involve biofilm bacteria, the control strategies derived from the studies will target what, phenotypically, amounts to the wrong organism!

Biofilms are implicated in a significant amount of human bacterial infections. Bacterial biofilms also cause fouling, product contamination, equipment failure, and decreased productivity due to downtime for system cleaning and replacement.

We have plenty of evidence that control strategies based on suspended cells are less effective on biofilm cells. Antibiotic doses which kill suspended cells, for example, need to be increased as much as 1,000x to kill biofilm cells (and these amounts would kill the patient first!).

Disinfection rates for biofilm cells are also far below planktonic kills by antimicrobials.

But wait. . . there's more!
Biofilm bacterial behavior is much more complex than suspended cell behavior, because biofilm bacteria live in communities.

According to the CBE's Dr. Gill Geesey, recent studies have revealed that there are significant differences in the level of expression of genes involved in nutrient cycling among members of a single species bacterial population exposed to the same apparent conditions.

Within these populations, there appears to

be "division of labor" whereby some cells

utilize available energy to turn on

metabolic pathways that effect partial

degradation of dead particulate matter,

while other adjacent cells of the same

population utilize the degradation products to produce new cells that are dispersed in the environment.

Understanding biofilm cell characteristics and behavior will help us design new strategies to manage biofilm in a variety of settings.

quote:

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Originally posted by brentb:
[QUOTE]
I got it there on the who site because you keep talking about WHO and thats what I found. Post your link to the WHO sit Thanks.

I'll look into it. Nope, not (pod?) it was a great post why they want to compare an element and a compound is beyond me.

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Samuel U, Guggenbichler JP.

Department of Urology, The University of Erlangen, Loschgestr. 15, 91054 Erlangen, Germany.

Contaminated or infected catheters are a major source of nosocomial infections responsible for >40% of all episodes of nosocomial sepsis in acute-care hospitals. Antibiotics as well as surface modifications with, for example, hydrogels proved to be of little value in preventing the contamination of indwelling catheters. The even distribution of 10(12-13) activated silver nanoparticles per gram in various polymers, e.g. polyurethane and silicone, results in an excellent antimicrobial activity against a broad spectrum of organisms in vitro. Substantial reduction of incrustation of these catheters was also observed. These preliminary experimental data warrant clinical studies.

PMID: 15037331 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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me.[/b]

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I knew the pi**ed off but not the dude Needless to say this is BIG and there will be those against it by doing things like comparing it to say clorox. out for now. have a good one!

Read this site: http://www.silvermedicine.org/safety.html

and read the first sentance here: http://www.smart-drugs.com/JamesSouth-silver.htm

While we can debate the merits of silver therapy, the fact that its a metal cannot be debated.

Barb

SILVER IS 47 ITS A TRANSITIONAL METAL

CDC pdf Toxprofiles

Is silver a heavy metal?
Clip from the site below.

HEAVY METAL???

Silver, medically, does not share the toxicology associated with what are commonly described as heavy metals. Legally, the definition of what is or is not a heavy metal varies depending on which regulatory agency one queries. According to SIGNA's medicare qualification documents, silver is not a heavy metal.

The term heavy metal is not truly a scientific term, and there has never been consensus on the meaning of this term in the scientific community. Classification of "heavy metal" has never been scientifically based on any actual quality associated with any element, although many adaptations to the periodic table have been attempted.

There is no basis from a biological standpoint, a chemical standpoint, or any other scientifically demonstrable standpoint including any medical significance that would suggest any actual significant meaning for the term heavy metal as applied to silver, or any other metal.

I have no stake in this debate. Just reporting what I remember reading on this bulletin board.

This means that when it hits the digestive system the silver ions react with the hydrochloric acid and becomes silver chloride. These silver chloride particles are too large to kill bacteria and simply get excreted by the kidneys.

I also took oodles of Olive Leaf Extract at one point...also minor herxes.

I liked the various thoughts on definitions on this site where the upshot appears to be that there is no one agreed upon definition of just what a "heavy metal" is: http://www.silvermedicine.org/silver-heavy-metal.html

So I will henceforward call silver a "transitional metal" that is cumulative in the body. It isn't the name so much as the cumulative part that we should be concerned with.

It will be in ALL the worlds drinking supply in the near future. While I understand your concerns they are unfounded.