LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » On maintenance abx but just added Samento--are symptoms relapse or herx?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: On maintenance abx but just added Samento--are symptoms relapse or herx?
Julie-MA
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 5110

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Julie-MA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am finally down to Biaxin and Plaquenil 2 x day, 1 day/week (per dr.'s orders) and have been doing that for only two weeks. I have tried to reduce several times before and have always relapsed.

I saw my LLMD almost two weeks ago and he agreed that my Lyme seemed much better but that I did have a significant yeast issue. He did add Samento for the first time for the Lyme, but he also added Diflucan, Nystatin, grapefruit seed and olive leaf for the yeast.

For the several days I have had intestinal pain and discomfort (gas, bloating, general discomfort), which I assume has to do with the yeast. More of a concern is that for the past two days I have had pretty noticeable (depsite my attempts at denial) heart palpitations throughout the day.

Last night my fingers and toes started to ache (the first symptom I ever had with Lyme, over three years ago). This morning, my hands aches and my left knee hurts and is making me limp.

I am in tears, distraught that my body once again can't handle the 1x week abx and that I am relapsing and will need to go back to daily meds.

What I am hoping, though, is that perhaps this is a herx from the Samento? Or yeast die off? But even if it is, does having a herx at what is supposed to be the tail end of treatment mean that there are still too many keets in my body?

I would appreciate any help you could give me.

Julie


Posts: 307 | From Byfield, MA | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dontlikeliver
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4749

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dontlikeliver     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Julie,

I don't know. But, is grapefruit seed extract from grapefruit (assume it is). Find out if it is compatible with Biaxin. I don't know where but I THINK I may have read somewhere that grapefruit is to be avoided with Biaxin.

I would try to find it for you, but I am so ill myself right now, I don't hae the attention span.

DLL


Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130

Icon 1 posted      Profile for lymie tony z     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It seems you are taking too many things for the yeast...however I'm not a doctor.
For a lot of us we have seen a sort of digression in symptom order from last to first when we have gotten better.
If these symptoms were some of your first this is a good thing...how good is yet to be seen in you.
Hopefully you will not need to go back to daily meds but I suspect you may have to.
Discuss with your md the herxing affect of the samento and the grapefruit seed extract.
I got a mild herx from the extract early on in my disease but not enough killoff to keep me off of IVabx or IM or Oral.
Lately I've been using ketek durring my cyclical monthly flareups skipping a month in between so as to give the chetes that may have developed immunity to the ketek from the previous month to have offspring that were not exposed to the ketek so I may have a more efficacious killoff ratio in the next generation.
I have experienced some good results this way in that my neurapathy(one of my first symptoms) and the heavy leg symptom and better sleep have gotten better.
Is this method a cure or even the right way to go??? Jury still out...but for me I feel better longer than constant daily/monthly abx treatments....The samento could be giving you a herxlike effect which could also be a good thing...
I would check the grapfruit contraindication for biaxin just to be on the safe side........
...........................good luck zman


------------------

[This message has been edited by lymie tony z (edited 29 March 2005).]


Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymelighter
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5310

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymelighter     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Julie, it's discouraging, I know, but par for the course. I've heard others complain of pain when they go off meds. Ask you LLMD for his opinion. My LLMD said it's hard to differentiate bb symptoms from yeast die-off or abx herx. How do you feel when you're not taking anything (no herbs etc)? I wouldn't let a small setback throw you into a tailspin.

Look on the bright side, could be much worse. If you can function and are not in a drunken Lyme-daze, your glass is 1/2 full.

Once you get the yeast in check, I'm sure a bucket of fried clams & onion rings from Woodman's and/or The Clam Box will put a smile on your once-sullen face.


Posts: 1010 | From Mars | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
brodius
Member
Member # 6835

Icon 1 posted      Profile for brodius     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Julie - I have been taking Samento for three weeks now - and throughout my entire illness I have never been in so much pain - I am miserable - I just pulled a muscle in my back last night - my fingers and toes ache - I creak and crack and I seem to have muscle spasms everywhere - I went off the Samento for two days and the pain reduced significantly.

I am also taking Diflucan and through trial and error - I know it is the Samento that is doing it - HOWEVER - I am feeling better in a lot of ways - So, I am continuing with it despite the pain.


Posts: 78 | From connecticut | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Julie-MA
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 5110

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Julie-MA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
DLL, ZMan and Lymelighter,

Thank you for your replies. I had not thought about the Biaxin and grapefruit connection but just looked it up and it sounds concerning.

Everything I read refers to grapefruit juice, but I too wonder if the extract could have the same impact. I know my LLMD often works with Biaxin, so I imagine something like that wouldn't slip his mind, and perhaps the fact that I am on Biaxin only once a week impacts his decision, but it does make me wonder.

It is interesting about Zman's comment about the first symptom reappearing being a good thing; I had asked my LLMD that one time, wondering the same thing, and he said it is a good sign. I'll grasp at anything positive!

I guess I know I probably need to check in with my LLMD...but I just wnat to stick my neck in the sand.

Lymelighter, I often drive through Ipswich (though not quite as far as Essex) and noticed the other day that The Clam Box is open for the season!

DLL, I am so sorry for all that you are going through. I read your other posts and am concerned about you. Thank you for taking the time to post.

With thanks,
Julie


Posts: 307 | From Byfield, MA | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dontlikeliver
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4749

Icon 1 posted      Profile for dontlikeliver     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks Julie,

Well if it is true that one's original symptom picture returning being a good sign, then perhaps what I'm going through is.

Fingers crossed, I actually feel like I'm a LITTLE bit better right now, so perhaps it's starting to go.

DLL


Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Julie-MA
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 5110

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Julie-MA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Brodius,

You and i must have posted at the same time! I was so relieved--though sorry for you!!--to see that you feel worse on the Samento. Maybe that is at the source of it for me too and maybe it is all for the greater good.
Thanks.

DLL,

I hope you do continue to feel better. Incremental steps must seem a little frustrating, I bet, but I'll hope the forward momentum continues.


Posts: 307 | From Byfield, MA | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lymeinhell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4622

Icon 1 posted      Profile for lymeinhell     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Heart palps were always my most 'fun' herx symptom. And they hit me hard from the very first dose of TOA Free Cat's Claw. I assume you started with a small dose? It's powerful stuff.

Of course, please investigate the cross reaction of grapefruit and Biaxin. I'm on a beta blocker and can't tolerate it either.

And hey, down to once a week is a very good thing. That's how my LLMD got me off abx - very very slowly cut down dosage.

So now you deal with yeast die-off and getting used to the Samento, and I think you may have left the worst behind!!

------------------
Julie G.
___________
lymeinhell


Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code� is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.