posted
does anyone use gabapentin products for neurological symptoms. i asked a couple of docs (specifically neurologists but LLMD's as well) about this but they just kind of shrugged it off.
i have found that use of valium (diazapem) significantly reduces my neurological symptoms, almost to an abatement at 10mg in the eve.
Diazepam appears to act on parts of the limbic system, the thalamus and hypothalamus, and induces calming effects by working on the GABA receprtor, such like gabapentin (best known as neurontin).
obviously no doctor wants to give me a long term script for valium.
but i was wondering if anyone had experience using something like neurontin, clonazepam (klonopin) or other gaba antagonists with success for their neuro symptoms, such as distal parathesias, etc.
my current LLMD has recommended a pharmacologist, by my request, to look into possibly employing this.
SunRa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3559
posted
I think they can be very helpful during Lyme treatment, however some are very addictive and long term use can have adverse effects. However, xanax has been a wonder drug for my neuro sx at times.
Neurontin helped curb my seizure activity and helped me sleep, but instead, now I just take some amino acids (incl GABA itself) that I feel help just as much and without the bad side effects.
breathwork
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 567
posted
From what I have read over the years on this board lyme patients either respond well to gaba drugs or they have adverse reactions.
I was on neurontin and my pain got worse...we tried gabatril and I ended up with Parkinsons like symptoms. I could hardly walk...was very spastic....They disappeared as soon as I flushed the Gabitril.
For the lymies that benefited, the gaba drugs were great...It seems to be an individual thing.
posted
The stuff you describe scares the daylights out of me, not least because I had a friend become addicted to valium. Not a pretty sight.
Have you tried L-theanine, this amino acid? I really like the Jarrow brand, but many companies make it, and it's sold all over the NYC area.
Also, I take anti-inflammatories, and find they have an effect on the gaba symptoms. But you know all the controversies around those. If you feel okay with Celebrex, and don't have an adverse reaction to it, I found it useful. Tincup recommended bromelain, I've never tried it but it's a natural alternative you could look into.
The gaba-agonists saved my life. Various of the benzodiazepines, including Valium, have saved me from horrible seizing episodes, improved the fluidity of my gait, decreased numbness, and made me more functional and less symptomatic in other ways. Neurontin wont do the same thing, though yes it is a gaba-agonist. The researchers and doctors don't know why, but most will acknowledge that their understanding of the differences among gaba-agonists is limited mainly to the differences in the durations of their respective effects. In patients with MS, the benzos like diazepam engender immediate and marked improvements in symptomology, it's well-documented and only speculations as to the mechanisms responsible are offered. The gaba receptors are of course the main point of focus. But there's so much more that these benzos do. For example, alprazolam has an immunostimulating effect, a mild but observable one on leukocyte count changes, while diazepam has a mild immunosuppressive effect. This is not necessarily bad however. Immunity just refers to the integrated body system of organs, tissues, cells, and cell products such as antibodies, cytokines, interleukins and even platelets that differentiates self from nonself and neutralizes potentially pathogenic organisms or substances. Now gaba-agonists don't enhance the activity of this whole system and we might not always want to upregulate all of this system, so, it is more accurate to describe the effect of the gaba-agonists as immunomodulatory, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. Further, psychoneuroimmnology, that mouthful of a new field, demonstrates the profound effect our psychology exerts on our immune system. There was never any secret here, it's just being more meticulously and elaborately elucidated now. The gaba-agonists, especially diazepam, relax smoothe as well as skeletal muscle. It's thought that in this way they improve gait in people with spastic muscles. Through this mechanism as well as by inhibiting overexited neurons in the brain, these medicines directly and indirectly resist and can reverse the progression of disease in people like us who display hyperexcitable and spastic tissues. But beware, Valium in paricular is notorious for its capacity to make people depressed, emotionally labile and angry.
Posts: 208 | From Seattle and Los Angeles | Registered: Aug 2003
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yeah please do let me know what the doc says. No worries about our tit, I'm sorry too. A good equally effective alternative to diazepam would be great, I know just plain GABA wont do it though, it doesn't cross the BBB in sufficient quantities, but there are tons of supps I've heard docs using to mimic the effects of benzos or assist with weaning off and withdrawal. Nice talking with you, -Trev
Posts: 208 | From Seattle and Los Angeles | Registered: Aug 2003
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Foggy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1584
posted
Zip, I had no luck with Gabatrol, Risperdal, and Mirapax. Side effects were not worth the negligible benefits and neuro symptoms were no better.
I go with Ativan in the am as it has a shorter half life and Klonop or Ambien in the PM.
[This message has been edited by Foggy (edited 17 April 2005).]
Posts: 2451 | From Lyme Central | Registered: Aug 2001
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Son is on 5 HTP and GABA...works wonders!!!
5 HTP (with B6 from Designs for Health) to support serotonin. GABA as sub. for Depakote.(1) 5 HTP with Bkfst and (1) with dinner and (1) GABA with bkfst and (2) at bedtime along with RDA of Mg glycinate (400mg of Mg).
Epsom salt baths with 4# bags and 1 # box of baking soda for 25 min in warm, not hot water...wonders!!!!
He TESTED low on literally every neurotransmitter (serotonin AND dopamine and all the rest...PEA, etc.) and only the neurohormones were up (to compensate).
Xanax, Depakote and GABA work very similarly...do the research. You chose...we're going the most "natural" route...
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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