In that time I went to another doctor and she gave me an antifungal and a nasal spray.

This is to help cure the MCS and constant vertigo and ear pain. She says that I probabbly had fungus in there.

So I decided to tell the LLMD that today and he said "you have to decide what you will do!"

He then said that If I wanna try the anti-fungals to stop the anti-biotics that are helping me. Then anti-fungals are tough on the liver.

He said if I wanna continue to see him that I have to have my liver checked every week now.

He doesnt like when his patient go from doctor to doctor.

I told him I want different opionions and to keep trying medications and treatments untill something works.

Please Please ..... is this worth it?

I have had this vertigo and severe MCS and sinus troubles for a year now with no resolve. Im trying to get through to him that I do want to feel better and rid myself of this symptom...

thanks everyone

Personally I always tell my LLMD in advance if I'm gonna see other doctors...just to make sure there's no conflict.

Afterall, the LLMD is providing the main treatment.

Don't go on drugs prescribed by another doctor the LLMD doesn't know about. It might be counterproductive.

That being said he does have a right to be if he is treating chronically ill people like us.

He is allready going against conventional medicine by prescibing long term
anti-biotics.

He doesnt see the picture when it comes to the possibility of yeast though.

Did you have a culture that showed yeast in your sinuses? We thought at one point that might be causing our child's sinus issues, but she had a culture and at one point a minor surgery too. I don't think anyone should take an antifungal on speculation only.

Was the nasal spray Flonase, or other steroid spray? This could possibly aggravate your Lyme, although it would probably be alright while on abx.

Finally, there can be many reasons for vertigo and ear pain. I've had these problems for almost 23 years, often accompanied by nausea and vomiting. Lyme treatment has done wonders for this, although the "herx" reactions I had at first made my vertigo much worse for awhile. I didn't really believe this problem was Lyme, but it turns out that it must be.

Things that have helped me include sudafed and Afrin. Holding my nose and blowing can clear the system and put air in my ear canals. Sleeping on the side where there is less fluid in my ears helps too. There are bracelets you can wear for vertigo too.

Has anyone examined your ears and found fluid? Do you have allergies? Do you get infections in your hears or sinuses?

I think it is fine to get opinions from different doctors but I always make sure each doctor knows about the other's opinions and I double check my decisions with them. Most important, make one doctor your main doctor and have that doctor coordinate for you. Tell this coordinating doctor if other doctors disagree, and have that doctor help you resolve the difference and guide your treatment. This could be an LLMD, or someone else.

Finally, remember that doctors worry about liability. The LLMD is giving you abx and may need to prescribe other drugs (including antifungals) that can affect your liver. If you develop a problem with your liver, while taking meds prescribed by another doctor, the LLMD may still be afraid of consequences. LLMD's are under a lot of scrutiny these days. This may be why the LLMD needs so much control, and needs to test you to keep you (and him/her) safe.

Good luck and hope your vertigo gets better soon.

quote:

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Originally posted by lymeHerx001:

He doesnt see the picture when it comes to the possibility of yeast though.

---

I believe you, but it's hard for me to believe this! ..???????

Makes no sense whatsoever that a dr can prescribe long term abx and not see that yeast could be a major problem without proper treatment.

It took 6 months to find an anti-biotic that I would herx on.

I herxed on biaxin.
At first I couldnt take full dose.
The herx was from hell.

It took another 4 monhts to work up to a full dose. I started doing a sauna at the time and that helped.

Then they replaced the wooden boards in the sauna with PVC mats. After a week I developed wicked MCS with post nasal drip and ear pain.

That was last May, one year ago. This symptom has been with me since.

I went off the biaxin last summer just to crash. I didnt help my sinuses and vertigo.

So in September I still took the biaxin and around January he gave me flagyl. I felt better but no herx.

One month of flagyl, then a month of only the Biaxin.

Last month he put me on Plaquinil and nothing.

When I say better I mean physically.
My sinuses were all the while screwed up and I have the constant sensation of movement.

I am not on an anti-yeast proticol.
I do like others feel terrible on sugar and carbs,, I get air hunger and neuropathy etc...

Ive never taken an anti-yeast pill untill now.

I have taken milk thistle in the past and it always makes me feel worse.

I drink lots of water (probabbly too much)
I try to work out or do the sauna(another gym) a couple time per week.

Now its tough cause the gym that I go to use the sauna is 20 minutes away as opposed to 10.

For the vertigo I have tried everything under the sun.

4 different steroid sprays.

4 different anti-histamines.

Meclazine (dramamine) made me severelly constipated.

Herbs like Fenugreek (used to work)

Afrin dries it up worse.

Sudafed doesnt help.

I even went to a chiropractic neurologist who said its all in my cerebellum and he can fix it with a couple cracks 3 times per week!

Then I went to another chiropractor who took x-rays of my neck and said it was crooked.

Unbelieveable.

It feels as if my sinuses have been burned out and irritated. I have lots of phlegm in my throat but not so much congestion in my nose.

I can breathe through my nose fine. Almost too well. I can feel the air hit the back of my throat and its almost painfull.

The ENT DOC tested me for fluid and it was negative. He said I can have the sensation of fluid with out fluid???

He tested my nerve too. It seemed fine.

I hope you can make sense of this. Im answering both posts.

I always just made sure i cleared it with my llmd when i went to alternative docs for things to make sure it wouldn't interfere with my llmds treatment..he appreciated it and then could tell me if anything would interfere with my abx. I also cleared things with my pharmacist...

this is really for your own good as well..to make sure your not mixing htings that could be hazardous to your health...

but sticking with just one llmd is important..I don't htink you should go from one llmd to another UNLESS you are leaving one to go to the next because you are unhappy and moving on...jsut comparing treatments etc...I don't personally think is ok....YOu need to trust one llmd, build a line of good communication between you , so that you can trust each other..this is a long road..and you need to know he's on your side..if he thinks your' off with other llmds as well, he won't pay you much attention...

just my opinion..

As for the yeast infections in your sinuses . get a nasal spray bottle remove the cap mix up a solution of 4 cups water 1 1/2 teaspoon salt and a 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda and use this in the spray bottle 6 times a day

two hours after your antibiotics take a product with 2 billion units of acidolphyllus . one product is called Megadolphyllus and it has helped me a great deal. strong black tea can also help kill off yeast, its the tannins in the tea that help. oregano oil is also effective against candida
I do agree that liver enzymes need to be tested if you take diflucan but most drs ask for a once a month test to monitor it , Milk thistle helps keep the liver functioning properly and will help flush out any toxins in the liver If it makes you feel worse there are plenty of other herbs that are also liver cleansers , just ask someone at a natural food store who is familiar with herbs

as for the chiropractor having taken neck xrays and sees your vertebrae out of alignment, Id suggest that you follow through with treatment as it can affect the sinuses and pressure in the ear drum when the neck is"crooked"( aka out of alignment)

I used to have symptoms very similar to yours. At the time, I read a great book on environmental allergies, don't remember the author. Maybe an environmental allergist could help you-?

All I can tell you is that with time, the sinus and vertigo problems resolved for the most part, and also my MCS has improved gradually over the years, although I still get pneumonia if exposed to new carpeting or oil paint, for example.
For me, hormones played some role in the MCS, I feel sure.

We also faithfully did the nasal irrigation described above, You can get something called Netti pot if you really want to do this gently. Using a bulb syringe sometimes causes more problems than you started with, because of the force involved.

Sapphire thats interesting about the chiropractor. In fact I might try him.

I saw chiros in the past but the one I saw was part nutritionist/kinesiologist and after 3 years he gave up on me.

He actually thinks that correcting my spine wont help because of the neuro-toxins will make it always go back.

That nasal spray sounds like a good idea too.
This doc just gave me a new one that is an anti-fungal it begins with an I...

anyways I payed $100 for it so I think that Ill be using it all up.

I have heard that with time it will get better,, its just disheartning that its been chronic like this for a year.

I might step on a few toes here by saying this, but I'm right with you with the vertigo. As you, I had constant unrelenting vertigo. I didn't have it quite as long as you,

and by FAR, it was THE WORST symptom I have experienced. My mother gets panicked when she gets dizzy spells for two days.

That being said, I HAVE run into LLMD's that would NOT treat yeast. I ultimately, left those doctors.

I don't know who your LLMD is, but I can see through looking at your post, this LLMD has NOT treated you for coinfections. Is there a reason for this?

Not treating for coinfections, and not treating yeast= find a new doctor perhaps?

To add to that, I seen a chiropractor who ALSO swore that my constant 24,7 debilitating vertigo was from my neck.

AFter 3 months of his adjustments, the vertigo left and has not returned. And that was BEFORE I started abx treatment for lyme.

Hate to say it but, you LLMD might be right. My MD had me on an "as need" dose of Diflucan while on a Macrolide. He also had my liver, kidney and CBC panels done every 2 weeks.

When My PCP was treating me my Lyme MD used to get a little pissed because she would put me on things that I hadn't discussed with him first. But, he didn't want to step on her toes, as she was my primary. Now that he is my primary, he had me toss more than half the Rx my PCP had me on and is much more vocal about what I should and should not be taking together. I run everything by him (when my Lyme brain remembers to).

Its hard to make sense of it because the vertigo didnt start because of trauma to the neck.

Actually I would get spells of vertigo and sinus troubles through the years. The longest up untill now lasted 2-3 weeks.

I just assumed it would go away on its own?

When youre sick like this its hard to tell who really thinks they can help you and who wants to take what little money I have/make.

Perhaps they all really think they can help us. There just that confident.

That kinesiologist/chiro I was talking about earlier was honest and said he couldnt.

Another chiro took x-rays said my neck was crooked and he could.

I just feel like a mouse in a maze with plastic cheese at each turn.

Another thing crime.

about the co-infections, they tested my 4 times for co-infections and it comes up negative each time.

My LLMD has a thing about not treating untill the test comes back positive.

This makes sense with the constant liver testing. Hes trying to save him self and be very precautious to avoid and legal problems.

find a llmd who will treat based on symtoms

I found this amazing superstrain of 3 probiotics that are really hard to kill. The yeast infection in my ears, rectum and female area went away (i could not believe it) after taking this for a week. i am now on a maintenance dose.

It is very expensive but a GREAT alternative to anti-fungals if you have candida.
It will literally wipe out the candida problem by replacing it with these bacteria.

Its called Healthy Trinity by Natren.
very potent www.natren.com
Its $47 for 30 capsules. you may have to take as many as 6 a day to start until your yeast is under control.

far and away the best stuff i've ever tried. it cleared up my candida so much that i no longer need antifungal cream.

They have it at wholefoods market and vitaminshoppe stores. i dont know if they deliver to the public because they are so careful about the temperature.

i was so skeptical before i tried it because ive used every probiotic and anti yeast stuff you can think of before i tried healthy trinity.

So he's pissed - he'll get over it. He knows now. Check the med contraindictions.

When you described your symptoms in an earlier post, you could've been me.

My 'chronic' sinus infections and dizzies left with 20 days of Diflucan. Gone - zippo. Never to return - a year now.

I'm still on it on 'as need' basis, have bloodwork done monthly or bi-monthly, and have NEVER had an abnormal blood screen.

But for the love of Pete, it is IMPERATIVE you go an an anti-yeast diet if you want to give it a chance to work.

He doesnt treat for coinfections unless they come back positive?

I bet you my left foot, and entire brain thats your problem RIGHT there.

FWIW: I have vertigo, tinnitus, hypeacusis as very punishing symptoms. I was slated to start IV abx shortly after being diagnosed, because I was so sick, but my initial response to oral ABX was so severe LLMD backed off.

After the first few months, I realized that the Biaxin and Zithromax I'd mostly taken were ototoxic - potentially destructive of the inner ear, and especially so in patients with a family history of inner ear problems. My mom had meneire's disease (sp) and it was awful for her.

I explained to LLMD, she agreed not worth risk, we moved on to Levaquin orally (kicked *** on a respiratory bug but got so I worried about tendons, so I stopped it) and then IM Bicillin (much more effective than orals, none of the intestinal effects, major herx pain but not the crippling vertigo I got on Biaxin or the horrid exacerbation of tinnitus I got on Zithromax.

So, moral of my crapulous tale is: one size does not fit all, abx-wise, and if you are prone to yeast overgrowth AND you have inner ear issues I say LLMD should consider gettin you off the macrolides and onto something else.

I could be completely wrong, its just how I read what happened to me, my case is just one more variation that only applies to some not all.

Cheers,

" crippling vertigo I got on Biaxin"

That was and still is me!!!

I thought it was a herx all along. How can one really tell though?

I went off the biaxin twice with disasterous results. Each time my neropathy came back hard and I had severe muscle weakness and burning,, air hunger etc...

I did get vertigo once I first went on the biaxin but I pulsed it and eventually I was able to take the biaxin with out the vertigo.

I think I was up to 750mg a day with no problems,,, mold exposure would bring it on and allergies,,, other then that I was fine.

That was untill the chemical exposure in the sauna,,, after that it became chronic.

Even as Im typing this now I can feel the phlegm in the back of my throat dripping dowb.

Ive taken so many antihistamine sometimes 3 at a time. It seemed to dry it up "a little"
however I could still feel the drip and dizziness.

Im thinking it could be yeast now, but this guy is sceptical. Because he knows that lyme can cause MCS and vertigo he want me to test neg for that first.

What pisses me off is that he always asks me
"well what will we do?" in his accent

Like you dont know? Its like a lotto for him with these anti-biotics and the Lyme.
I really think hes watching his arse so he isint sued.

quote:

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Originally posted by lla2:
most of us don't test positive for coinfections, but 85% of have them...

find a llmd who will treat based on symtoms

---

and one who believes in yeast as a possibility.....

I mean, it was obvious HE wasn't helping you with these specific symptoms, so therefore he should have sent you to someone else who could help.

I don't understand why doctors just can't say, 'I don't know' or 'I can't help you with this specific problem' or 'You need to see someone else for this'.

It would save us all alot of frustration and heartache and pain/or whatever your symptoms are causing.

If more doctors would admit that they don't know everything and can't fix everything, most of us wouldn't have had to go through several doctors and several months, if not years, to finally be diagnosed with Lyme.

It mean an adverse reaction to chemicals that other would have little or no reaction to.

In Most people it effects their sinuses but it can go other places too.

Ever have a sinus infection??

Ever know how every smell bothers you? Like the smell of smoke and perfume? Your eyes might even water.

Keep the ototoxic question in mind, though, figuring out what is herx and what is side-effect is not nearly as simple as a person might think.

It could be that while you can tolerate the Biaxin now it is still passing some dosing threshold where in addition to anti-Borrelia effects you are getting anti-you effects. It isn't always one or the other.

I agree with Jill, if a physician is not going to attend to a symptom they should help you get to someone who will.

One gets very tired of hearing things like, "I like to do things sequentially, one at a time, this other symptom will have to wait."

As if the only concern were a physician's preferred mode of operation! But let's face it, what we mostly get from physicians is an MD-centered, not patient-centered, standard of care.

Of course, there is also something to be said for caution in introducing treatments. You sound like you're having a pretty rough go of it, and in that situation (when things all seem very urgent) it is true that adding a powerful antifungal could be a costly mistake, [or a great success].

I became convinced recently that I had a yeast overgrowth in my respiratory and GI tract, persuaded LLMD to prescribe 200mg a day of Fluconazole, and learned the hard way that my system would not tolerate the medication.

I think you sound very rational, and that is an accomplishment when you're enduring these sorts of symptoms! Hopefully you can help nudge your LLMD into a more cooperative stance. When they don't have a clear medical basis for a decision, all sorts of other factors creep in, and we want your wishes to be one of them!

I hope you get some relief soon!

Sorry, I can't see that you have a leg to stand on complaint wise.

quote:

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Originally posted by no2lyme:
..... I have been very lucky when it comes to yeast. Apparently my body does not produce it but now I think my luck has run out.....

---

That's when the trouble begins. Anyone on long term abx is eventually going to have a problem with yeast. And then, it's going to be even harder to get under control and stay under control.

You're playing with fire here.

It's that the antibiotics are attacking ALL bacteria and we need to supplement with probiotics to bring in good bacteria.

WRT to yeast grapefruit seed extract can be helpful.

Was taking lots of it for a month. I noticed that after I took a large dosage that my mucous would thin. It did nothing for my vertigo.

The thing is Ill take a supplement for a week or two and then stop if I dont see results.

Ive tried.

Wolbenzyme
NAC
ALA
anti-histamines
Zinc
Large doses of Vit A for a week (LLMD didnt like this)
HAS natures way herbal formula

Again I feel that I have a chronic sensitivity or my sinuses are burned out.

Now I went to this woman doc and she said take large doses of MSM

Maybee he will test again for co-infections.

In the meantime I think it coulndt hurt to go see a chiropractor 3 times a week.

My mother has been seing a chiro now for a month and she feels way better. I stronglly think that she has Lyme also.

She was dx with fibro, cfs, epstein bar,, never felt right in 15 years.

This CHIROPRACTOR took x rays of my neck.
My whole spine looks crooked. He wants to start adjusting it...

He also told my mother that I have arthritus in my neck? How can someone get it there?

My neck has been cracking 10 times a day,, so even if he can help this.
\\\\\
My old chiroptactor that I saw years ago basically gave up on me. He said that the adjusments would never hold because of neuro-toxins.

Has anyone ever heard this? This is after I told him that I had a huge herx on BIAXIN.

He changed his stance from "ohh everyone tests positive on IGINEX" to

...well rob,, you probably have LYME and have a very deep infection. I cant work on you because you wont hold your adjustments because of neuro-toxins.
\
\
\\\
\\\\

Theres so much information and misinformation. All of us are exploring these murky waters...

quote:

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Originally posted by TheCrimeOfLyme:
DUDE!

He doesnt [b] treat for coinfections unless they come back positive?

I bet you my left foot, and entire brain thats your problem RIGHT there.

[/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by lymeHerx001:
He also told my mother that I have arthritus in my neck? How can someone get it there?

---

ANY joint can get arthritis in it.

Hope you get your mother to take a Lyme test....and hope you get a babs test!