I have thought ive had lyme for years, i had one positive elisa an indetermanent western blot and a few negative ones as of late.
I found sites that say that candida,(yeast) causes all the same symptoms and i have been having vaginal yeast and white rings on my tounge when i eat carbs and my symptoms get dramatically worse with high carbs.
These below are the symptoms associated with candida, but they also seem to be the same as lyme symptoms. So whats goin on here?
Is the fact that i get deathly ill on abx because of a herx or is it makin me sick by overgrowing the candida with the abx?
What has your experience been with Diflucan? I have some and want to take it, but like all meds im deathly afraid of its die off or herx effect.
(This is some of the symptoms i found online for systemic candida)
Primary Areas of Candida Infection
This fungal related complex manifests itself primarily in five (5) areas of the body.
The Digestive System- where symptoms include bloating, gas, cramps, alternating diarrhea with constipation, and allergies to food (the person may even feel allergic to almost all foods).
The Nervous System- where symptoms include abnormal fatigue, anxiety, mood swings, drowsiness, memory loss, depression, insomnia and mental fogginess. In extreme cases, hallucinations and violent behaviour can occur. Autism, hyperactivity and learning disabilities in children are other manifestations.
The Skin- where symptoms include hives, psoriasis, eczema, excessive sweating, acne, and nail infections.
The Genito-Urinary Tract- in men, common symptoms include chronic rectal or anal itching, recurrent prostatitis, impotence, genital rashes, jock itch and loss of interest in sex. In women, common symptoms include PMS (depression, mood swings, bloating, fluid retention, cramps, craving for sweets, headaches prior to menstruation), recurrent bladder or vaginal infections, and a loss of interest in sex.
The Endocrine System- an intimate relationship exits in the body between the immune system, the nervous system and the endocrine system (glandular system- adrenal glands, pancreas, parathyroid, pineal gland, pituitary gland, male and female sex glands, thymus and thyroid gland). The thyroid and adrenal glands in particular may be involved. It is not uncommon to find that victims of both hypo and hyperthyroidism, especially the auto-immune variety, are linked to fungal overgrowth.
Posts: 158 | From Vancouver,WA 98682 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
the positive elisa was about 4 years ago and i had iv rocephen, but never got any better, except for 2 days in the middle of the 4 weeks.
Posts: 158 | From Vancouver,WA 98682 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by BarelyBreathin: the positive elisa was about 4 years ago and i had iv rocephen, but never got any better, except for 2 days in the middle of the 4 weeks.
4 wks?? I'd say that's way below adequate treatment! You need to get after it!
Most people relapse after a round of Rocephin, especially if it's not followed up with flagyl and other orals.
posted
Diflucan will not cause a herx. Diflucan goes after the candida. A herxheimer reaction is paricular to spirochetal illnesses and is seen in syphillis and lyme two diseases caused by spirochetes. Diflucan will kill candida and will not result in a herx.
posted
She WILL experience horrible die-off if yeast is her problem, and from her description, it is.
I was in the same boat as you last year, barelybreathin. I got off of the antibiotics 10 months ago, dropped my LLMD, and went after yeast on my own. I haven't relapsed and I enjoy life more than ever. I'm still not perfect yet, but I'm so much better. I took Diflucan, Ketaconazole, and Sporanox here and there. It helped in the end, but the herxes were horrendous and the medications hard on the liver. I'm still not done with the yeast yet, so I will try Lamisil soon because it is actually fungicidal whereas the others are only fungistatic.
I had a positive ELISA and positive western blots for Lyme before I began using antibiotics for 2.5 years. I got sicker and just wanted to die on antibiotics, and it wasn't from Lyme herxes. After I developed a serious fungal infection in my lungs and landed in a hospital bed, I knew the path I had to choose. Now it's all-natural therapies for me and some prescription antifungals.
I highly encourage you to take Primal Defense by Garden of Life. Also, eliminate all carbs as much as possible. Not feeding the yeast is actually the best way to kill it in conjunction with other products. I don't believe in garlic and oregano oil since they have antibiotic properties. I think by far Grapefruit Seed Extract is the best for the herbal route. Also, coconut oil is great for swishing and swallowing.
The only way I got rid of my symptoms that I thought were Lyme was by going after the yeast. My symptoms that completely went away or nearly so after hitting the yeast were headaches, fatigue, digestive problem, athlete's foot, low sex drive, skin problems, hypotension, sweats, heart palpitations, swollen extremities, low body temperature, hair falling out, pain in testicles, bloodshot eyes, allergies (food & environmental), anxiety, depression, sleep problems, muscle and joint pain, etc.... See how all of these looked like Lyme, but were really relieved by treating the yeast. The myriad list for Candida symptoms is just as long as the Lyme list, if not an exact match. Expect all of these symptoms to get worse during yeast treatment...it's a matter of fact.
Yeast is the coinfection that we often forget. Lyme or not, I've been treating what I know is the obvious problem.
Today I can eat some sweets and not suffer. The only problem is the Candida always comes back if I let things slip too long.
Yeast is a nasty beast. I still have lingering symptoms and oral thrush that won't go away even though I've been off of antibiotics for 10 months. The body can control it with healthy gut flora, but once it spreads beyond the gut it becomes very hard to kill. Because yeast is normal in our bodies, the body doesn't really address it on it's own.
There are so many other modalities you can turn to for Candida without worrying about missing the Lyme. You can do things that go after both: Rife, Ozone, hydrogen peroxide. I don't recommend colloidal silver in the least. Colloidal silver is a natural antibiotic and therefore is just as indescriminate as antibiotics in killing the good gut flora.
Sometimes the praise for antibiotics on this group saddens me. I believe many of the people here have yeast and not Lyme as the central cause for concern and I can pick them out easily. I am one of them and until they pull a spirochete from my blood or tissue, I won't believe the Lyme is there. I herx my butt off when rifing for yeast, but nothing happens when I rife for Lyme...go figure.
Since antibiotics almost killed me and my best friend is in the hospital with a C. Difficile infection that won't go away because of 6 years of antibiotics, you can understand my viewpoint.
-greg
[This message has been edited by kaos (edited 04 May 2005).]
[This message has been edited by kaos (edited 04 May 2005).]
Posts: 373 | From Southern California | Registered: Jun 2003
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
You still have lyme by the way it sounds. And you have yeast cut the sugar out and pastas,peas,corn,baked beans,bread if you must have bread make it hunters grain or whole grain, and increase steamed vegies el dante like broccolie,cabbage,asparagus spears,no carrots unless raw,mushrooms pan fryed, certain cheeses should be removed eat yogurt no sugar, cut out fruits like pears,apples,replace with melons,strawberries,blackberries rasberries, etc.
read my Newbie links has lots of info on yeast and diets and Drs treatments for lyme and coinfections and get a LLMD.
Newbies List 2005
WELCOME To LYMENET
Here's more goodys! A typical response to newcomers.
Hi and WELCOME! Get a LLMD or at least Dr that is willing to learn about lyme. "Lyme literacy" means, first and foremost, knowing how to diagnose the disease accurately. Borrelia Burgdorferi is a clinical diagnosis, based on symptoms and on your response to treatment. Good Luck, bumpy road ahead. Lyme Disease symptoms 2005 Lyme Symptoms 2005 Post for a LLMD in Seeking a Doctor. Ps remember I am not a Dr, just a fellow sufferer. Support Links LLMD's
quote:Originally posted by treepatrol: You still have lyme by the way it sounds.
How can you say this tree? She doesn't mention anything about Lyme. The only thing obvious is a yeast concern.
Posts: 373 | From Southern California | Registered: Jun 2003
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TheCrimeOfLyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4019
posted
I agree with absolutely everything Kaos just said.
I did 18 months of antibiotics. After the first 6 months, I was feeling pretty darn good but wanted to address any possible coinfections. I already HAD systemic yeast ( diagnosed via blood work,etc BEFORE antibiotic treatment for lyme).
But I kept going with the antibiotics and I got MUCH MUCH SICKER. I couldn't even EAT without reacting. Every LLMD I went to said "herx" . Really? I didn't know I coudl HERX off of eating bread, or salad, or taking advil.
The yeast was so out of control ( and much easier to leave my stomach as I already HAD a hemmoraging gastritis) that I developed not only systemic candida but leaky gut syndrome, REGARDLESS of the antifungals I did during abx treatment.
I don't disqualify or advocate the non use of abx. I would be dead without them,
But for *ME*, for *ME*, after I went off abx, I went from 40 percent to anywhere from 75 to 90 percent and Im holding STEADY.
I have been off abx for 6 months. I was on them for 18. I have seen MUCH more improvement in those 6 months that I ever did in those 18 months.
And like Kaos, ALOT of my symptoms that I swore were lyme ( including orthostatic intolerance) wasn't. It was yeast.
The neuropathy in my leg? Yeast. Sleep apnea? Yeast. Head PRESSURE? Yeast. Hyperhydrosis ( bartonella AND yeast)
Yeast is downplayed very much and as I have even stated before: IT CAN BE THE COINFECTION !
FOR * ME* I knew it was time for *ME* to go off of abx slowly, taper them down and see where I REALLY was.
I went through ALOT of symptoms when I stopped abx and almost jumped back on. I was ILL for two months. ( anyone that says you dont experience symptoms when going off abx is full of it.. some people DO)
and then, I sprung back to life, for the first time in THREE years.
As stated: for ME yeast WAS the coinfection. I'll go back to antibiotics if I have to. In fact, I plan on bicillin "just in case".
Posts: 3169 | From Greensburg, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2003
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TheCrimeOfLyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4019
posted
One more thing:
Y0U CAN have a die off from yeast. And you will.
As lymetoo stated, it doesnt matter WHAT you call it. Candida is NOT much different from lyme in how it acts.
It has different strains it can disseminate it can penetrate the blood brain barrier it can cause identical symptoms as lyme it can kill you it can take multiple approaches to kill it hides from the immune system because your body intreprets yeast as a good guy- you'd die if you had NO yeast You can regress it, and then relapse it It requires life style changes, maybe for ever AND it can cause a WHOOPER of die off, as many times as it wants, time and time again, for as long as it wants It creates toxins
Look up candida on pub med, or candiasis. It HAS killed people.
I giggle when I read posts that say "my doctor said if I had yeast, I'd be farting".
Yeup, and one of the quacks that I went to said if I had lyme, my knees would be as big as knockers and very swollen.
Posts: 3169 | From Greensburg, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2003
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I do think yeast IS my biggest problem here, if not now my only. I was getting severe panic attacks 2 years ago from pizza...PIZZA... and i couldnt figure out why until some one clued me in about yeast... The freshly activated yeast in the pizza dough was the culprit.
I have since last july cut out ALL sweets, and i mean ALL, i actually cry some times because i deprive myself of all that yummy stuff i use to love so well.
I eat EXTREMELY low carb diet, but havent gotten alot better, however if i ever do eat carbs like bread and pasta i suffer big time, especially with the neurological symptoms, palpitations, and wheezing.
So what was the experience for you with diflucan? I thought about only taking half a pill to reduce the major blow of die off.
Have you heard of The Makers Diet? When i have stuck to that ridgedly i notice icky body odor, like the stuff(die-off) is coming out my pores. I tried it for a couple weeks a month ago. I think I will go back on it.
I so want to get better, but am so petrified by the reaction to mew herbs or treatment, but if it works i know i have to.
Have you heard of HSO's? I think they are from Garden of Life too, thats the company in the Makers Diet Book...
Posts: 158 | From Vancouver,WA 98682 | Registered: Aug 2004
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