However, my symptoms are not gone and it is obvious that I need to do more. My mother and I disagree over what to do next. She is of the opinion that a good combination of naturopathic and allopathic medicine is the way to get rid of Lyme disease. In other words, she wants me back on the antibiotics. I agree, antibiotics will certainly bring down the germ load. But I don't want to do antibiotics; they hurt. I have spent a year recovering from them and I don't want to go back.

The doctor I am seeing claims to have gotten better from their own Lyme disease by treating with infusions of hydogen peroxide solution. After a period of serious doubt, I have decided that I am willing to try the hydrogen peroxide treatment...I think. (Even after the Dr. James Shortt fiasco.)

So, what is the drama? I am wondering if hydrogen peroxide treatment will be good enough alone, or whether my mom really is right, and that I must submit to the bitter cup of antibiotics yet again. Complicating the matter is that we would want to get in to our antibiotic-doctor before they have a hearing...

Other than herxing, I'm not having any side effects from the shots. In addtion to antibacterial properties, it's an antifungal (I have no yeast unlike many others and I give full credit to the silver) and also an antiviral as well.

You might want to consider this as an alternative protocal to the H2O2. I have to say I remain skeptical that it wouldn't damage you as much as the bb. Though I'm probably starting to sound like a fanatic, I guess it seems to me to me, being blue is less bad than having air bubbles in your blood stream (if that's true with H2O2, I could be misinformed though)

Just be well informed. Its really all you can do. Figure out what the worse case scenario is...check out the credentials of the protocol... and decide.

I felt a little skeptical and scared of turning blue with the silver. And there are definately a lot of horror stories (and pictures) on the net about bad things that can happen with impure silver, or silver nitrate. But I really trust my doctor and I researched it and called a biochemist friend of mine...and decided that it was okay to try. My worse case scenario though was ending up looking like a corpse, which I think I could work, it'd be like the uber-goth look. Or something, dye my hair a funny color, presto I'm an alien, no more worries for halloween costumes right!? Anyway for me being blue is better than feeling like I do.

The H2O2 I haven't looked into much, what I know about it, seems like it could have much more serious side effects than being blue. But it's your body. You should use your best knowledge.

There's also the cat's claw protocal that seems like it's had some really good success, especially with artemisan if you haven't tried those. I'm just starting those so I have no real feedback on either as yet. I just read an abstract of a study with cat's claw only patients compared to a control group of abx patients and the cat's claw actually worked better. So that seems like something else that you might look at as well (also that's fairly cheap I believe)

I am in the same boat you are in. I have horrible Candida and and other issues from abx. But, I am working with my MDs and alternative healers on a program to help me get will with smaller, pulsed doses of abx. We don't know if it is working yet. I certainly don't feel well or cured. But, I agree with your mom that this is worth a try.

Even if you do H202, you really want to supplement that with alternative therapies, like a good diet, exercise, appropriate supplements and maybe, meditation, massage, sauna, cranial-sacral therapy, whatever will help you through the side effects of the treatment and help you to stay balanced. Both abx and H202 will make your body unbalanced. You have to fight this from all angles.

Just my opinion.

Good luck.

This makes me think anecdotal reports have got to be viewed as what they are, one person's opinion at that point in time, subject to change.

So, I tend to edge away from this type of treatment. Using antibiotics on bacterial infections has a track record. These other things don't. Being a guinea pig is one thing, but it is only useful to the community at large if good stats are kept on response. Generally people who don't do well on alternative treatments fade away and never record this outcome. The ones that are vocal are those who feel they have benefitted. This is a very skewed response and not reliable if you want a basis for trying these things. If you don't care about track records, well that's different.

That said, if you want to try alternative at least for a while, maybe samento is a reasonable choice. I have not used this myself.

Why is it that when people on here are treated for lyme for months and also test negative that every one just assumes the symptoms they are still having are from resistant lyme?

Systemic Candida causes the same syptoms as lyme..And abx often cause systemic candida.

So isnt it possible that many on here have systemic Candida and not lyme, or in combo with lyme?

Candida Yeast/Fungal overgrowth has been found to be a common occurrence in many disorders and is also present in millions of other people who cannot figure out what is wrong with them, or what to do about it.

Symptoms vary from person to person and fluctuate in severity, or may come and go. Most symptoms are invisible, which makes it difficult for others to understand the vast array of debilitating symptoms with which we contend.

The most commom are: an incapacitating fatigue and problems with concentration and short-term memory, flu-like symptoms such as pain in the joints and muscle, extreme tightness in the shoulders and neck, hyper-acidity/acid reflux, brown colored mucus in the back of the throat, blisters in the mouth/tongue/throat, either white or "blood blisters," unrefreshing sleep, sore throat, white coated tongue, an aversion to being touched or jumping, "crawling" skin, chronic sinus problems and headaches including migraines, chronic dental problems.

Visual disturbances may include blurring, sensitivity to light and eye pain.

Psychological problems may include depression, irritability, anxiety, panic attacks, recurring obsessive thoughts, personality changes, and mood swings (irrational rage or crying for no reason - fear of talking to people, any kind of confrontation, isolation) or paranoia.

More of the physical symptoms may include chills and night sweats, shortness of breath, dizziness and balance problems, sensitivity to heat and/or cold, alcohol intolerance, gluten and/or casein intolerance, irregular heartbeat, irritable bowel, constipation and/or diarrhea, painful gas and abdominal bloating, low-grade fever or low body temperature, numbness, tingling and/or burning sensations in the face or extremities, dryness of the mouth and eyes, difficulty swallowing and projectile vomiting.

Also menstrual problems including PMS and endometriosis, recurrent yeast infections, recurrent ear infections, rashes and dry, flaking skin, eczema, dermatitis, acne, skin discoloration and/or blotchiness, dandruff, jock and rectal itching, chronic athlete's foot, chronic toenail and fingernail fungus, ringing in the ears (tinnitus), allergies and sensitivities to noise/sound, foods, odors, chemicals, anemia, weight changes without changes in diet, light-headedness, feeling in a fog, fainting, muscle twitching and muscle weakness, jerky-leg syndrome and low sex drive and/or numbness in the genital area.

These are only the symptoms most commonly reported and documented.

To a person who does not suffer with this bizarre combination (in one form or another), it may seem to be impossible. However, to those of us who have suffered, it is a blessing and a confirmation that we are not alone.

Of course, with so many people suffering, the doctors couldn't brush our symptoms aside forever. Many more people are now being diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) or CFIDS (Chronic Fatigue and Immune Dysfunction), Fibromyalgia syndrome (FMS), Lupus, Hypothyroidism, Leaky Gut Syndrome, Crohn's Disease, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Celiac Disease, chronic sinusitis, atopic eczema, Seborrheic Dermatitis, Tinea Versicolor, GI dysbiosis, adrenal dysfunction, Rosacea, Psoriasis, Macular Degeneration, Barrett's Esophagus, Lactose Intolerance, Gluten and/or Casein Intolerance, Meniere's Disease, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), and sometimes just depression (which can accompany many disease states), just to name a few. It can be an underlying condition in many diseases, but is often not diagnosed, misdiagnosed, disputed to even exist or is disregarded altogether.

For me personally, the way I am being treated for the Borrelia directly is with Samento, Noni and Bee Venom injections.

Im in agreement with you on the it might be candida and it might not. It might be lyme and it might not. Like lyme maybe candida is just as resistant to treatment and is not cured easily at all.

I think the best approach is to attack both the best we can and hope that some one some day finds some thing that really works and can pull us out of this torturous hell.

Some Pros and Cons:

Side effect:
Only two of four scheduled sessions done just to see what would happen, and even with anti-oxidants, immediately after, I could feel the effects of veins burned(?) for months afterward.

Pros:
Assumed it did a lot of good, as well, killing infectious organisms of any every and all kinds in the blood; some death of whatever cells in blood there by exposing infectious bugs both to immune syst. and to hyd. perox.

Two sessions will not do much period, as cells in tissues would have to leave tissue spaces, and come back to blood to get exposed to hyd. perox., but many sessions, I presume, would do a lot of good and have side effects, as well.

To give it a solid try,enough sessions would have to be done for as long as it takes to have had a complete turnover of all blood cells. I don't know this time frame.

Bb would still be in tissues though.

quote:

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It's supposed to be absorbed through the skin. It did always make me feel better--the same principle as walking to get oxygen into the blood to kill the spirochetes. [/B]

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If you look at that chemically..that doesn't seem possible. The second oxygen on the H2O is unstable, thus H2O2's oxidation properties. You end up with water. And if you're poring it into hot water, it's probably tossing off the extra oxygen due to the heat energy.
It's been a while since I took chemistry but pretty sure it's not absorbing through the skin.

Making a solution of H2O2 in the tub and expecting the H2O2 to stick around while you're bathing in it is actually reasonable. The kinetics of decomposition are not so fast for H2O2 that it will all go away before you hop in the tub. But don't wait fifteen minutes before getting in the tub either. Put a drop of blood in the tub with you, and it will be all gone, very quickly. I am not convinced that H2O2 absorbs well through the skin, but it could.

That brings me to another point which I must thank Burnbitter for bringing to my recollection. Burnbitter mentioned bubbles in the blood. That is correct. I remember a demontration of catalaze, and enzyme in our blood that catalyzes the decomposition of H2O2 into oxygen gas, O2. Catalaze is actually the fastest enzyme known to man, operating at a rate of 10^9 times per second (or 1,000,000,000 times per second)! The active species is then O2, which does the damage. Formally O2 is a double bond, but in reality, it behaves as a diradical species that damages tissue indiscriminately. Thus the phlebitis along with improved symptoms for some people. You get it all. Also, it should be noted that this is why artemesinin works. It contains a peroxide bond that liberates O2 over time.

I am grateful for the input I have received on this forum about the H2O2 treatment. I will consider it. Although much of it has been negative, I am still pondering and have not yet decided. I am grateful for the reminder about cat's claw and will look into palm sawmento.

Thank you lou for your commentary. It provides some insight to the conflict I sometimes feel when it comes to my own hopes that I will get better.

In response to BarelyBreathin, I agree that Candida may be a serious issue that gets confused with residual Lyme. But I wonder, how many of the problems attributed to Lyme or Candida are not just the casualties inflicted by Lyme in the first place? i.e. If Lyme screws up someone's harmones, and they get all cured from Lyme, they still have screwed up harmones because those systems have been permanently compromised.

Again, thank you everyone for your input. I have enjoyed it. Watch for me to bring up colloidal silver and biotic resistance to garlic next!...

If on long term abx, treating for yeast might be a good idea.

Lyme (plus co-infections) weakens our systems opening the door to opportunistic infections, viruses, fungi, autoimmune conditions, etc.

Maybe our systems were weakened by something else to begin with and that's why the lyme took over in the first place.

In any event, the only way to get well and stay well is to stop the vicious cycle and strengthen and clean up our bodies and our environment (homes/offices etc).

Working with folks who can look for everything that's going on and can recommend effective treatments is difficult, but possible.

It may be an llmd, or someone in addition to an llmd. It may take a small team.

This is the strategy I'm using for myself and I am making progress. It's slow, but it's progress and I'm most thankful.

quote:

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Originally posted by thechemist:
Also, it should be noted that this is why artemesinin works. It contains a peroxide bond that liberates O2 over time.

[/B]

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I actually asked my doctor about the H2O2 injections. She said that it appeared to be a safe treatment if properly diluted, but really all it's doing is as you say, oxygenating. She said that like Nattokenese it's useful to help break up blood clots. So I guess ditto on the artemesinin.

I've been taking Nattokenese for a couple months. I haven't noticed any changes specifically toward circulation. But then I'm taking a lot of things who can tell at some point what's doing what. I add things in one at time and take stuff away one at a time as well...but still a
lot going on.

H2O2=Hydrogen Peroxide=CystsForm

Question?
Why is it that when people on here are treated for lyme for months and also test negative that every one just assumes the symptoms they are still having are from resistant lyme?

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