I have had Lyme for probably 25+ years and also Ehrlichia (HME).

Three member of my family (me, two daughters) have positive ANA's. We are at totally different stages w/Lyme. The two girls' ANA's have reduced but not resolved.

LLMD's said treatment would resolve ANA's. I've been on abx for 4 years and my ANA has gone up. Could be the Lyme is still being "stirred up" (Dr. D) by the meds.

All three of us have the HLA-DR4 genetic type. One daughter has type 1 diabetes, which is an autoimmune illness.

This genetic subtype apparently shows predisposition to autoimmune problems. With Lyme, this genetic type is presdisposed to "intractable" (Liegner) chronic Lyme.

I had Lyme untreated for 25+ years- mis dx's as at first lupus (high ANA + ) then as I aged, they added other autoimmune disorders to my list settling on complex auto immune disorder... I refused steroid treatment though - which made me a very unpopular patient.

All my autoimmune symtoms went away post Lyme therapy..

This is what is meant by a positive ANA. Each laboratory has to determine how much the patient's serum must be diluted before it is reacted with the cells - as "neat" serum often gives a positive ANA test. Thus a positive test is defined as the lowest dilution that would be expected to produce green fluorescence in a patient with disease. This is usually referred to as a titer. For instance, a titer greater than a dilution of 1 in 40 might be the dilution separating a normal serum from a diseasesd serum. This is usually seen on the lab report as Positive > 1:40. The higher the titer, the more likely the patient has an immune disease and lyme is definnatley a immune diseaseIt attacks lymphocytes=immune system.

Thanks for the info on lymphocytes. Saying Lyme is an "immune disease" is different from what I am asking about though...I am asking about "autoimmune disease" which is a different thing.

For example, AIDS is an immune disease involving suppressed immune activity. But lupus, an autoimmune illness, involves increased immune activity, but it's turned against one's own body. So they're kind of opposites.

BPeck I agree autoimmunity is probably pathogen-based.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lyddie:
So tree, do/did you have a positive ANA?

Thanks for the info on lymphocytes. Saying Lyme is an "immune disease" is different from what I am asking about though...I am asking about "autoimmune disease" which is a different thing.

For example, AIDS is an immune disease involving suppressed immune activity. But lupus, an autoimmune illness, involves increased immune activity, but it's turned against one's own body. So they're kind of opposites.

BPeck I agree autoimmunity is probably pathogen-based.

It does seem that a lot of people I know with Lyme do not have positive ANA's, even though the LLMD's say it is common. Informally, I am just curious to see how many answer "yes" to my question about ANA's.

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Lyme enters the body and immediatley changes then it gets recognised by immune system attack begins then lyme enters immune system attack slows down or stops from immune system because lyme is wearing our protiens then somewhere in here lyme becomes recognized again bingo arthritis acheing all over again ana's back up at that time. And everytime lyme does this cycle it happens all over again.

I hope I explained and you understand what Iam saying.
At any given time in this cycle ANA'S can skyrocket or plummet.

also told on 3 separate occasions that "you have borderline LUPUS" with nothing done & 1 dr. even walked out the door after saying that giving me NO info on lupus!

I recall having a positive ANA test maybe 10-12 years ago when I had severe foot/ankle pain and went to a walk-in clinic. I didn't believe the dx (rheumatoid arthritis) so I went to a sports medicine doc and felt much better after NSAIDS and exercises.

Don't have a clear lyme & co-infection dx yet...appointments are made and I'm waiting. My Igenex WB was indeterminate, with INDs in a lot of bands and a few positives. Probably chronic lyme for 25+ years, and fibromyalgia, and very likely to have co- or related CWD infections. I do have a normal ESR (22/0-30), but high fibrinogen (525/190-420) and CRP, highly sensitive (11.6/0.0-1.1), so there is something happeining with hypercoagulation as well. NattoK is helping some.

I have no theories today.

Also my cat scan looked fine, though as my friend with MS said "if it shows up on a CAT scan you wouldn't really need the test to know".

Just had an ANA test last week that came back negative. My docctors said according to my blood work done last week, I am more than healthy, but the day it was done and all of last week and the week before I felt worse than I had in a very long time, I am almost positive I was herxing.

I also have a high sed rate and elevated CRP.
Sed rate and CRP decreased slightly with IV abx, but ANA remained positive.

I had more specific testing for lupus, but those tests were all negative. Doc told me that as long as I have lyme, I will test postive on ANA test.

quote:

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Originally posted by bg2711:
HI,

I have positive ANA and Positive RA - speckeled, but said it wasn't lupus, it was an unnamed autoimmune problem. Said there are so many, they may never be able to give it a name. I call it Lyme.
Barb

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Sounds like to me you have RA. RA positive and ANA positive right? Well, ANA is not just for lupus.

ANA- Anti-Nuclear Antibody.

Ana occurs in patients with a variety of autoimmune diseases. Both systemic and oragen-specific. Particarly common in SRD (systemic rheumatic diseases. (Lupus, RA, Dermatomyositis, sclerosis, mixed connective tissue diesase... etc. list goes on.

A large number of healthy individuals will have a positive ANA (weak), which shows doctors a false-positive. Positive ana results GREATER than 3.0 units are associated with a condition. Anything under does not show true disease with a SRD.

ANA may also be found in patients with viral illnesses, chronic infections, or patients on many different antibiotics.

Ana results, as with anyother testing should be evaluated with clinical symptoms and other testing.

To rule out viral illnesses, chronic infections patients should have an ANA re-tested 2-4 weeks later. Also pts with many antibiotics or medications, for true positives, should be off their regimen of drugs before testing is done for accuracy.

ANA: negative
CRP: negative
Lupus screening: negative

(Also..to have daily tests run just to see what normal fluctuation rates are..for a baseline)

But, she also had specific Lyme bands on her Western Blot, and the pattern of reaction to antibiotics almost certainly would suggest Lyme (for instance, sudden psychosis with no prior or later such history, while first on tetracycline).

After a couple of years of antibiotics, her ANA is now 1:160. She still has some problems but she is much better. (Mo,apparently the ANA does not fluctuate daily or rapidly and it actually does not always correlate w/symptoms: in other words you might have a flare but still have lower ANA and by the time the ANA is way up, you might not have such bad symptoms, or so the MD's told me)

So, with my daughter, the rheumatologist will say she has autoimmune tendencies and experienced a lupus-like illness during puberty, which was triggered or worsened by hormones and is now in remission (sort of, still has Raynaud's, painful swollen glands etc.)

The Lyme doctor will say it was Lyme, which triggers autoimmune stuff in some people (may also have been exacerbated by hormones) and that the antibiotics helped the symptoms and brought the ANA down.

ivebeenlymed2, with my daughter, I don't even care anymore what to call it! Both doctors put her on Plaquenil for two years, and the antibiotics certainly seemed to help, after the first horrible months.

I hope this helps a little. Ironically, I am facing the same question for myself, although I have not improved as much as my daughter has on the meds. I have a positive ANA and skin biopsy and they say I have lupus, but my Western Blot is very, very positive, every time it's done.

Maybe all these things shouldn't be seen as mutually exclusive, but as cooexising or interrelated. It really helps me to see that so many on this board have had positive ANA's, and that quite a few got better after antibiotics! I was starting to think maybe I was on the wrong path.