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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Initial bite: 4 or 6 weeks antibiotics?

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Author Topic: Initial bite: 4 or 6 weeks antibiotics?
SueDonym
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Hi! So glad this BB is here.
Got an EM rash (no memory of tick bite but in a heavy tick area), remembered the warnings about lyme and went to urgent care where I was tested (negative) and got two weeks of antibiotics (after much discussion). Realizing that two weeks was not nearly enough if it was lyme I tried to find an LLMD in my area (not successful yet) and ended up going to a general practice where the doctor took cash (I have no insurance) and discounted my concerns (a common enough occurance) but at my insistence gave me two weeks more (amoxycilyn 500 mg 3x).

My question is this: since what I'm reading about the disease tells me the bug runs in 4 week cycles, wouldn't it be prudent to stay on antibiotics for an additional 2 weeks longer (6 weeks total) to make sure and hopefully avoid a long term dibilitating illness? Since I'm operating without insurance, I could find another random doctor and ask for two weeks more of antibiotics...just kind of skipping some of the information. This doesn't feel right, but it's hard to get people to take you seriously and I'd rather not suffer the consequences of their ignorance. I always have difficulty fighting with doctors over things they seem so ready to dismiss: the head and muscle aches, rash, etc. I'm also concerned about my son, who seems tired, has had several unexplained fevers (102...although there is a fever going around his preschool).

My second question is compliance with the medication. It took me a while to get the second set of antibiotics which meant that I had skipped most of the day and I've been late on a couple of the doses as a busy mom. I'm trying to be very alert to this, but I'm concerned that this will affect the medicine's effecicy. I guess I'm just a little worried, given the consequences should this become chronic.

Also: I'm breastfeeding an infant. I've heard that this is okay with both the antibiotics and lyme...but it's still worrisome.

Thoughts?

[This message has been edited by SueDonym (edited 20 May 2005).]


Posts: 8 | From Pasadena, California, USA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Monica
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FIrst of all, let me applaud your intelligence and tenacity in getting help. Way to go!

You no doubt know by now you are much smarter than the doctors you have seen.

Please try to find an LLMD as soon as you can. The fact that you are nursing concerns me. You might want to get some input on that matter pronto.

Good luck. Get serious medical help.


Posts: 1757 | From Somerset County, NJ | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lou
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Not sure I want to comment on the breastfeeding situation. But it makes me nervous.

Back to your main question. Yes, 6 weeks would be better than 4 weeks. Some docs are now going with 8 weeks for early catches. What strikes me is that you don't know what you have got in addition to lyme. Ticks frequently have other germs too, like ehrlichia, babesia, bartonella and others. Amoxicillin won't touch any of those others. Doxy is the usual choice for a new case because it will hit both ehrlichia and lyme. I presume amoxi was prescribed because of the breastfeeding situation.

Here is a link to a treatment guideline you should read:
http://www.ilads.org/burrascano_1102.html#


Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyddie
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I did exactly what you are doing, talked my way into 4 weeks amox. at high dose after a presumed bite, and then got neuro Lyme one year later. So I definitely think 4 weeks is not enough.

My daughter was presrcibed 2000mg amoxicillin per day (she's 10 and weighed about 70 lbs.) so I would think your dose should be a little higher. YOu could take Burrascano's guidelines in with you to a doctor.

I don't think missing a dose or being late will have any lasting effects. In fact, some people "pulse" antibiotics anyway .

With nursing, the amoxicillin may cover you. I wouldn't want to say anything about it. I would seek help from Dr. Jones (he doesn't mind his name on here, most LLMD's do) in New Haven Ct. I was a nursing mother for years and know that weaning a child isn't that much of an option, unless your child is getting close to that naturally...Myabe there is a way for you to cover this and really feel sure the breastfeeding is okay.


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DeniseS
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Good for you for pushing for what you need.

I stopped breastfeeding my son earlier than I would have liked because we both tested high for toxic metals and other substances and my doctor suggested I stop for this reason. This was before I found out that I had Lyme (which I certainly had while I was pregnant and passed on to my son.)

I recommend begging, borrowing or stealing to get the money you need to see an LLMD.


Posts: 261 | From San Mateo, CA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
janet thomas
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Lyme tests are usually negative until several weeks after an EM, takes time for the body to build a measurable antibody response

Go to support groups at the left, find one close to you and contact them for a doctor referral

How old is your baby? Lyme may be passed thru breastmilk, jury is out on that, amoxicillin is often prescribed to pregnant women with Lyme, usually at much higher doses

guidelines here may be useful- www.ilads.com

6 weeks is often recommended as a minimum treatment

Babesia (cousin of malaria) can cause high fevers-are there also chills/headache/nausea present?

another good site www.canlyme.com

EM is diagnostic for Lyme

It's ok if you missed a dose of abx, not to worry


Posts: 2001 | From NJ | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
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SIX, it is!!
Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
groovy2
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Hi Sue
Glad to see you are taking this serious
--it is--Take abx for a long time--
If it was me I would take I would take
for at least 6 to 8 months--Large doses-
The side effects of abx are nothing
compaired to what Will happen
to you with lymes.
From what I have read amoxi may not
very effective against Late lymes--
Early limes may be differant.
The people who have gotten well
using amoxi at begaining of disease
may not show up in the research I have
done because they got well and went on
with there lives--
It seams like Doxicycline is a med
that can be efficitive if used
at begining of infection.
From what I have read -500-600mg day.
It is also cheap- this could be part
of the reason it is used so much.
I have had lymes a long time-
you do not want to be like me.
Missing a dose is not a good thing.
Most abx have to stay at a certian
level in body to be effective.
Threw my personal experance--
missing a couple of doses has had
Very Bad effects on me.--
I had no idea bactira could come
back so fast.
There is a lot of what appears
relaps into active disease
--so it is thought by many-
including me -that lyme can hide
and come back- maybe years later.
But this could also be reinfection
by a new tick bite.
It may only take One Live bactera
for it to come back.
It did not take very many for it
to start in your healthy body--
Do your research--take info to your doc.
it appears that if cought early
and treated with large doses of
correct abx- for long enough-
Lyme can be Killed. Meds must be
taken corectly-- for many it must
not be taken with dairy-vitimans ect.
Time is not on your side.Being a busy
mom is not a good reason to take a
chance on being a bed ridden mom
for the rest of your life.

There is a search option on this site.
Look back into the past of posters-
Look and See there experances-
That is what I do.
Contenue to Take Charge--This is one
of the things Many people on this
site wished they had done sooner.
Good luck to you--Jay--

Ps - one more thought on large-long
doses of abx--
Take it now or take it Much- Much later.

Sorry about my spelling



Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DeniseS
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Might I kindly suggest that you start a new topic about being recently infected, treatment and nursing a baby - you could just cut and past your intial post in this topic. That might attract the attention of some Lymies who have experience in these areas.

Your situation has stayed with me since I last posted and I thought this might generate some more good information for you.

D


Posts: 261 | From San Mateo, CA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lou
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There is also a yahoo group for pregnant w/ lyme, so I imagine that the new mothers stay with them after delivery and may have some advice/experience.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bon
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Hi Sue !
Well you asked for any thoughts, and by the looks of things you sure have received some !

I would urge you to take the folks here up on their references to any links provided.

Now for my 2 cents! ..........Should you remain on the Amoxicillin the dose needs to be upped to at least 3grams a day (3000mgs) along with this you want to add Probenicid 500mg 3x's a day to be taken along with the Amoxicillin.

Sue, your a Mom with what sounds like terrific instincts! They are something not to be ignored !

Keep your chin up !
Bon



Posts: 50 | From NJ | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SueDonym
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WOW! Thanks everybody for your kind thoughts and advice. You are great!!!

Yes, I'm determined to be aggressive about this and try to get it while the gettin's good...so to speak, and then keep my fingers crossed after that. I've tried to email the support group several times but have received no reply. Treepatrol(?) was kind enough to email me some suggestions for California LLMD but they are all very far away. There was one email addie and I will try that for maybe a referral. A neighbor has a friend who went into the hospital with second stage (I think...intravenous antibiotics) and said she'd try to get the name of the doctor but no luck there yet. I'm taking my pills.

As for the baby, yes it would be hard to stop breastfeeding right now but more importantly I find myself in a quandary. It's likely that if I had the infection for any time before the EM then my baby is infected because I didn't know and was nursing...if it passes through nursing and the jury's still out there...although frankly precaution, yes! If I did pass any bacterium along then I want to KEEP nursing in hopes that she gets some of the antibodies too, and a fitting dose of the amox. If not, then I worry about the effect long-term antibiotics will have on her (it can make kids deaf depending on what antibiotic is used) and am very tentative as to increasing or going to heavier stuff, and then if I stop breastfeeding I have to worry about fighting with doctors on two fronts -- my own and her potential. So it just feels very difficult and like I'm flying blind as to the most helpful route. Then there's my son's mysterious rounds of illness I need to fret about, although they seem communicable and therefore NOT lyme...unless the family all got infected at the same time and we're all just cycling through things. ARGH. And their dad just disbelieves that anything could possibly be wrong and thinks I'm being a hypocondriac for taking medicine that could prevent a bigger illness.

Umm...I think that's everything.
So my plan is to keep taking pills, keep breastfeeding, keep an eye on the kids and try to find an LLMD...and if I can't just skip over some history to get enough amoxicillin to go 6 weeks. I'll check out the pregnant mother's group, and some of the other links, and bring the lyme advice thing to whatever doctor I end up with. Thanks for your great advice and good wishes. If you have anything else to add, feel free to throw it into the mix. Can't hurt.

*Especially* if you know a LLMD in the Pasadena/LA area.


Posts: 8 | From Pasadena, California, USA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DolphinLady
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I'm very impressed with your take charge attitude. It will serve you well.

You and your children need a lyme literate doctor for the right treatment now.

You've gotten a lot of good advice and I hope we can help you find a lyme specialist near you. You may also want to contact the lyme support group in your area for this. Go to support groups on the left hand side of this webpage as already mentioned.

My llmd advises against stopping and starting antibiotics because it could lead to antibiotic resistance.

Sometimes it takes a while to get in to see a lyme specialist once you've found them. If this is the case, try to get in on a cancellation.

Good luck to you.



Posts: 925 | From California | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DeniseS
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What DolphinLady said about getting in on a cancellation - I agree.

I'll also add, that I got in to see a doctor whose practice was closed by pulling his CV of the internet and showing it to other doctors in case they knew anyone he published with. It turned out that my psychiatrist had a very obscure connection to him and e-mailed him and got me in. My former boss also knew him.

Find out as much information as you can about the doctor via receptionist, internet etc. and then ask everyone you know if they know him or her. You might be surprised and have an appointment within one week (!) like I did.

Good luck! You're doing an awesome job in the face of all this.


Posts: 261 | From San Mateo, CA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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