Meanwhile I'm having excruciating pain in my upper molar that radiates to my jaw and temple.

Stopped by my regular dentist to see what he could do for me. Says I need a root canal (he just wanted to remove the nerve) but couldn't fit me in to do anything for me. I also don't want to stir things up any worse before I get to the bio-dentist.

I've tried taking acetaminophen, vicodin and my regular doc prescribed Trental for inflammation. I've also tried clove bud on the tooth but nothing is helping with the pain. I can't drink, eat and I can't sleep.

You may have to have an emergency root canal....or takes TONS of vicodin for the next MANY days.

Keep us posted. I feel for ya.

Yes, teeth pain is awful.

With the birth of every one of my babies I have had 1-2 root canals each time. I think that my body robbed my calcium stores and gave it to my babies.

Ouch my friend. Now, are you telling me you have tried clove oil that you can get in your pharmacy? Is that the same as clove bud?

That worked wonders for me. My sister gave me some. I called my sister and she says you can get it at the pharmacy behind the counter. They actually sell it for making candy. Isn't that ironic!

If this clove bud is not the same as clove oil, I sure would try clove oil. Be careful not to touch any of the tissue in your mouth with the oil as it would make things worse.

Only try getting it to the root, maybe the center of the tooth with a cotton swab, then put on a gauze. If it is the same as clove oil, could the potency be off, maybe old, out of date? Maybe some new oil is in line here?

Oh dear, I hope it feels better soon. I cannot imagine planning vacation (something you want to look forward to) during this kind of pain. Sounds like you are due a good vacation too.

Are you vacationing somewhere that you have friends that could recommend a doc in their area that could put you out of your misery sooner? The worst thing about the root canal is the pain you endure before hand.

As soon as they numb you up you are in la la land, you know! I wouldn't hesitate to have one at the beginning of a vacation.

My recoveries were smooth sailing and just required some advil.

Have you tried aleve?

My mother in law said it was the best pain reliever she had used over the counter for her very painful arthritis. It is even better than some prescriptions she has used. She is an expert at pain!

BE CAREFUL though because you probably COULD NOT take Aleve with your Trental, because it is an anti-inflammatory.

Don't they prescribe antibiotics for the infection while you wait, so it won't get worse? What is a bio-dentist?

I hope you feel better soon. Sincerely, keep us posted here, I am empathizing with you. I will say a prayer for you tonight!

Your choice, of course, but I wanted to let you know that you may be helping the lyme prosper by opting for the root canal.

I know Gigi has posted some information previously about what Dr. K has said on this.

I wonder what the biologic dentist you're going to see thinks about root canals. Possibly, you could call his office and find out. Also, is there the chance that he might fit you in earlier since this is an emergency?

I had a similar kind of situation a while back. I went to a biologic dentist far away from where I live, had some teeth pulled and got "dry socket". Quite painful. I went to my regular dentist, with whom I've spent a heck of a lot of $ with and he was actually mad and rude that I had bothered him with this, since he didn't pull the teeth.

I tried to explain to him that I was just trying to get over this Lyme thing and to please understand. Well, initially, it really hurt my feelings and upset me. Right now, I just think he's a horse's *** .

I now have a new dentist that will work with me when I have to see someone else. You might want to consider the same.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Biting Back:

Meanwhile I'm having excruciating pain in my upper molar that radiates to my jaw and temple.

Stopped by my regular dentist to see what he could do for me. Says I need a root canal (he just wanted to remove the nerve) but couldn't fit me in to do anything for me. I also don't want to stir things up any worse before I get to the bio-dentist.

---

Zomig works for me. You dissolve it under the tongue. You would probably need 5 mg. You have to be observed when you first take it in case of heart palpitations, etc. It is meant for migraine; works great for me on jaw and tooth pain.

Also try gargling in hot salt water several times a day. Vitamin C is good for the inflammation as well.

There is a biological dentist in Reno that feels that Lyme is a major cause of tooth problems.

Well, I must say I think my dentist is a piece of *!&% too for not helping me out with pain if nothing else.

I've heard some dentists are afraid of treating patients with lyme. That was the impression I got while I was sitting in his chair.

I think clove bud is the same as clove oil. Will keep using it.

My LLMD believes root canals are really bad news too. I happen to strongly believe him. Was kinda holding my own after the tick bite but had a root canal shortly thereafter. It was all downhill from that point on.

Will definitely put on the brakes with a root canal. I'd rather have the darned thing pulled than risk getting sicker w/ lyme disease.

I'm going to the bio-dentist for cavitat. Been losing bone and muscle tissue from my oral cavity. Have been for 3-4 years. Went to Mayo Clinic (oh, joy) and they sent the specimens to pathology. Twice returned positive for necrotic bone and striated muscle. Mayo then treated me as if I was attempting some sort of pathomimicry for medical attention (putting foreign objects in my mouth). They didn't even address the bone and muscle but sent me to psychiatry. Big surprise, huh?

Long story, but I have to go on vacation or else my parents are stranded in Minnesota without a vehicle.

May try to get in to see an acupuncturist in the a.m. if I survive this evening.

Aspirin, Tylenol, Advil, etc, would not touch the pain at all.

Aleve would but just barely.

My husband also used to use that nasty numbing stuff (yellow-ish) that you put on a q-tip and then use that to put on your tooth. Can't remember the name right now. Anbesol, I think that's what it is called.

God, I remember my tooth pain. It was so severe I couldn't sleep until I found Motrin. Then I would fall asleep but I would wake up in pain once Motrin wore off. It was horrendous.

Hmmm interesting about the extra strength Motrin, didn't know such a thing existed. We just pop four 800 mg if the pain is of the unbearable nature.

Could you knock yourself out with Benadryl? Seems that is a big no, no, as it shuts off the immune system. I read that a few days ago on lymenet.

So, be careful with that suggestion as it sounds like you are fighting lyme with all your might right now and wouldn't want to confuse your immune system.

I'd try benadryl but I'm one of those oddballs that gets the opposite effect from it. One average dose and I'm awake all night.

I've just taken another dose of vicodin and it is taking the edge off. I'll have to keep some beside my bed to take as it wears off through the night.

Does anyone know if it's okay to take vicodin and Trental together?

This is NOT TMJ - alot of people confuse the 2.

I had this off and on for years (till post Lyme therapy- and it's not been back since).

Ask your dentist if he can give you comething for the pain if it turns out not to be the tooth.

re root canals - read a few pages in
"Root Canal Cover-up" by George Meinig - available at Amazon. Also www.Altcorp.com/Prof.Boyd Haley -

To find out if an existing root canal is toxic, have a TOPAS test done (only accurate if the tooth has been tapped for a couple of minutes before test is performed in the dentist chair). TOPAS info at Altcorp.com.
Many root canals fail eventually and start to leak a deadly toxin which usually heads for the brain. Ask me all about it - I had a few of them. First thing my doctor looks for is root canals when a patient comes with diagnosis breast cancer!

Take care.

GiGi you have me wondering....I had a root canal done a few months ago. It was ok then severe nerve pain in my face started.

A few weeks ago all my teeth hurt on that side so bad I wanted them all ripped out.

I saw my dentist recently and the x-ray of the root canal showed ok..however, still in severe pain up into ear and temple with all the muscles spasming in my face.

He said TMJ and I can hardly open my mouth.

It has effected the muscles in the back of my head and neck.

I do get trigeminal neuralgia but this is different.

This part of the body, the teeth, is definitely the contributor to either good health or a life of misery. And it just doesn't seem to go away if one does nothing about it.

My husband got out of and discarded his wheelchair seven months after addressing the dental toxins.

I highly recommend that no one ignore this subject, but learn all there is available to learn. You will find that most regular dentists are ignorant and prefer to remain so on the subject. Many of them are sick themselves (20some % of all Canadian dentists are on disability according to Health Canada, 1996)

Take care.

Cavitations
By Dr. Karen Shrimplin

Everyone knows what a cavity is, but cavitations are much less well known. Both words come from the same root word, ``hole.'' A cavity is a hole in the tooth, whereas, a cavitation is a hole in the bone that cannot be detected through visual inspection!

History and Overview
The term ``cavitation'' was coined in 1930 by a well known orthopedic researcher to describe a disease process in which the lack of blood supply to an area of bone resulted in a hole or ``hollowed out'' portion of the jawbone or other bones in the body. This was also described in 1915 by Dr. G.V. Black as a progressive disease of the jawbone which kills bone cells and produces large hollowed out areas of bony tissue or a soft mass enclosing particles of necrotic (dead) bone. He was intrigued by the unique ability of this disease to produce extensive jawbone destruction without causing redness, swelling of the overlying tissues or increasing the patient's body temperature. Black suggested that surgically removing this dead necrotic tissue was necessary to promote healing of the jawbone.

Current Use of Term ``Cavitation''
In the last decade, the term ``cavitation'' has been used not only to describe lesions appearing as empty holes, but also various types of lesions in the jawbone, found through tissue analysis to be lacking in oxygen, necrotic (dead), bone infected and toxic. These lesions are often located in old extraction sites and under or near the roots of root canal teeth, avital (dead) teeth and wisdom teeth. Sometimes they seem to spread extensively from these locations throughout the jawbone and may penetrate the sinuses or totally encompass the jaw nerve.

Recent Research
Recent research by Dr. Boyd Haley shows ALL cavitation tissue samples tested contain toxins which significantly inhibit one or more of five basic body enzymes necessary in the energy production cycle. There are indications that when these toxins combine with chemicals or heavy metals, such as fluoride or mercury, that more potent toxins may be formed. Research from Germany indicates the jawbone may be a holding tank for chemicals and heavy metals (especially wisdom teeth sites). Clinical experience indicates it is sometimes difficult for some patients to successfully detoxify mercury from the body until after cavitations, as well as fillings containing mercury are removed.

NICO-Cavitations Accompanied by Pain
The term NICO, neuralgia-inducing cavitational osteonecrosis, has been used when severe facial pain, neuralgia, headache or a phantom toothache accompanies this disease. Even if pain symptoms or localized jawbone symptoms are not present, systemic symptoms can be extensive. The intense concern expressed by several researchers and physicians earlier this century about the systemic influences of these lesions has finally become a concern for contemporary, progressive dentists, physicians and researchers.

CAVITAT
Dr. Bob Jones, the inventor of the CAVITAT (an ultrasound instrument designed to detect and image cavitations) found cavitations of various sizes and severity in approximately 94% of several thousand wisdom teeth sites that he scanned. He also found cavitations under or located near 100% of root canal teeth scanned in both men and women of various ages from several different geographic areas of the United States.

Wisdom Teeth Sites
One source of data indicates that 45% of all jawbone cavitations are located in the third molar (wisdom teeth sites). These areas are particularly predisposed because they contain small terminal vessels (microvasculature) and osteonecrosis is a disease of such vessels. Injections for dental procedures are often given near these areas. If the local anesthetic used contains a vasoconstrictor (often epinephrine), it may shut down the blood supply to the bone in these areas. For this reason, the use of non-vasoconstricting anesthetics is indicated.

Recommended Treatment
The recommended treatment of cavitations at the present time remains the same as that proposed by Dr. G.V. Black: surgical debridement (scraping clean) the area to remove all unhealthy bone and all pathology such as abscesses, cysts, etc. It is not sufficient to ``punch'' a small hole in the bone, drill a little and rinse it out. In fact, this, and the practice of injecting these lesions with homeopathics and other substances, may very well increase the severity of the lesion instead of lessening it. After the unhealthy bone is removed, the goal is bone regeneration. Success of this occurrence, up to this point in time has depended a great deal on the healing capacity of the individual's body and the treatment or elimination of predisposing and risk factors, which is not always possible. Lack of healing or reoccurrence of a lesion and the need for retreatment is always a possibility, no matter how well the surgery is performed. There are very few dentists who are trained in effectively diagnosing and treating these lesions. Those who are not so trained are not qualified to diagnose this condition or confidently assure patients that they do not have a cavitation.

editor's lower left jawbone - June 2003

editor's lower left jawbone - June 2004 - after cavitation surgery!

Prevention of Cavitations
There are new instruments, products and technological applications which may improve prevention and treatment procedures and enhance the bone regeneration process. Many questions are yet to be answered, and more research is needed to perfect the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of cavitations, but our knowledge is increasing daily. Most importantly, many individuals are receiving relief from local and systemic symptoms, diseases and pain by the surgical treatment of cavitations.

This article, by Dr. Karen Shrimplin is gratefully reproduced with permission from Affinity Laboratory Technologies, founded in 1997 by Dr. Boyd Haley, Professor and Chair of Chemistry Department, University of Kentucky in Lexington. Their web site, www.altcorp.com, is brimming with useful, up-to-date information.

Another brilliant and informative web site that explains cavitations in simple words: www.hugnet.com.
Also, you may want to check out www.toothwisdom.net.

For an update on the CAVITAT, an imaging device designed to detect the presence of jawbone cavitations using non-invasive, unpainful and safe sonography, see www.cavitatmedtech.homestead.com.
The before and after cavitations on the previous page are that of the editor's, Merrie Bakker. The cavitational scan was performed by Dr. Madeson Basie, the only dentist at this time who uses a cavitational scan in the Greater Vancouver area. For dentists there is a local site of interest: UHS Ultrasound Health Systems (Bayne E. Boyes, CMA, FCMA) at: www.ultrasoundhealthsystems.com.
Mr. Boyes has brought this technology to Vancouver.

For even more information see the article by Brent Ralston, Cavitations ... the problem of hidden infections. The Healing Journal. June/July `03, pp. 6 & 7 and at: www.thehealingjournal.com

NOTES FROM TOOTH WISDOM
(www.toothwisdom.net)

A cavitation is an unhealed hole in the jawbone caused by an extracted tooth. Since wisdom teeth are the most commonly extracted teeth, most cavitations are found in the wisdom tooth sites. The graphics above demonstrate the destructive and pathologic consequence of a routine tooth extraction.

Dentists are taught in dental school that once they pull a tooth, the patient's body heals the resulting hole in the jawbone. However, approximately 95% of all tooth extractions result in a pathologic defect called a cavitation. The tooth is attached to the jawbone by a periodontal ligament which is comprised of ``jillions'' of microscopic fibers. One end of each fiber is attached to the jawbone and the other end of the fiber is attached to the tooth root. When a tooth is extracted, the fibers break midway between the root and the bone. This leaves the socket (the area where the root was anchored in the bone) coated with periodontal ligament fibers.

There are specialized cells in the bone called osteoblasts. Osteoblasts make new bone. The word "osteoblast" means bone former. They are active during growth and maintenance. However, the periodontal ligament prevents the osteoblasts from filling in the tooth socket with bone since the periodontal ligament fibers lining the socket act as a barrier beyond which the osteoblasts cannot form bone. In other words, an osteoblast "sees" a tooth when it "sees" periodontal ligament fibers. Since there are billions of bacteria in the mouth, they easily get into the open tooth socket. Since the bone is unable to fill in the defect of the socket, the newly formed ``cavitation'' is now infected. Now there is no blood supply to the ``cavitation''. This results in necrosis (tissue death). Hence we call a cavitation an unhealed, chronically infected, avascular, necrotic hole in the bone.

The defect acts to an acupuncture meridian the same way a dead tooth (or root canal tooth) acts. It causes an interference field on the meridian which can impair the function and health of other tissues, organs and structures on the meridian.

Significantly, the bacteria in the cavitation also produce the same deadly toxins that are produced by the bacteria in root canals. These toxins are thio-ethers (most toxic organic substance known to man), thio-ethanols, and mercaptans. They have been found in the tumors in women with breast cancer.

I had breast cancer and I was only 38 years old. Very interesting observation and I happen to believe it.

I'm fortunate that I only have 3 small fillings, but did have a root canal that failed. I had to have the tooth pulled and knowing what I know today, it's probably a good thing.

The tooth that's bothering me is #14. Interesting that all of my teeth near/surrounding the root canalled tooth are either dead or dying. Probably not surprising to you, huh?

Anyway, can't WAIT to see the bio-dentist on the 20th. He's going to cavitat all four quadrants and do whatever else he deems necessary. My LLMD recommended him. I've saved every single penny, nickel and dime to do it, but I know it will be a worthwhile experience in my case. I do plan on recovery from this nightmare.

What type of dentist would do the work/test mentioned?

I know there were many things in the news about mercury fillings a while ago. Also contraversal things.

I had various tests done a while ago for mercury, lead and such..all okay.

Now I feel betrayed by my dentist. How are we suppose to know all these things. Only struggling everyday to survive.

I thank you for all the great sites you provided, GIgi, and perhaps you could tell me what kind of dentist I need to find just to be sure things are ok.

Microorganisms isolated from root canals presenting necrotic pulp and their drug susceptibility in vitro.

Lana MA, Ribeiro-Sobrinho AP, Stehling R, Garcia GD, Silva BK, Hamdan JS, Nicoli JR, Carvalho MA, Farias LD.

Departamento de Microbiologia - Instituto de Ciencias Biologicas/UFMG, Departamento de Dentistica Restauradora - Faculdade de Odontologia/UFMG, Sao Francisco, Brazil.

Oral Microbiol Immunol 2001 Apr;16(2):100-5
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/PubMed&list_uids=11240863&dopt=Abstract

Abstract

The knowledge about causative agents involved in endodontic infections is increasing, especially due to the improvement of culture techniques for anaerobic bacteria, showing that these microorganisms are predominant in this pathology. In this study, 31 canals with pulp necrosis were microbiologically analyzed before and after manipulation. Obligate and facultative anaerobes, microaerophilic bacteria and yeasts were recovered from 24, 14, 5 and 2 clinical specimens, respectively. The most frequent genera were Prevotella, Fusobacterium, Lactobacillus, Streptococcus, Clostridium and Peptostreptococcus for bacteria and Candida and Saccharomyces for yeasts. Strong positive associations, using an odds ratio system, were found between Clostridium and Prevotella and between Peptostreptococcus and Fusobacterium. Even after the instrumentation and the use of Ca(OH)2, facultative anaerobes were detected in two root canals and yeasts in three. Microorganisms were isolated from seven canals at the end of the endodontic treatment: facultative anaerobes from five and yeasts from one. The microbiological evaluation of root canals with pulp necrosis suggests the presence of polymicrobial infections, mainly involving obligate anaerobes, and shows that the infection may persist after treatment.

Discussion

"The microbiological analysis carried out in this study after endodontic treatment demonstrated the efficacy of the therapeutic procedures in reducing the microbial population present in previously infected root canals. No obligate anaerobic bacteria were recovered after treatment. Besides the antimicrobial action of the substances employed for endodontic treatment, changes in the ecological conditions of the root canals, such as oxygen exposure and rupture of the microbial interactions, are able to promote a decrease in the anaerobic population present at those sites (9). If on the one hand, the results of this study confirm the effectiveness of endodontic treatment in reducing the microbial population, on the other hand they also show the permanence of viable microorganisms inside the root canals due to their survival after treatment, contamination during the different manipulation phases or even due to the penetration of microorganisms from the oral cavity through inadequate temporary sealing. Initially, aerobic bacteria are rarely found in infected root canals but may be introduced into the canal during treatment (28), as observed for Psuedomonas, which was recovered from one canal after chemomechanical preparation and the use of Ca(OH)2. The results of microbiological evaluation during several stages of the endodontic treatment leave no doubts about the importance of each step in the reduction of the infectious process. The permanence of microorganisms inside the root canals may not lead to treatment failure, but certainly their absence will favor the success of treatment (7)."

Fluorescence in situ hybridization (FISH) for direct visualization of bacteria in periapical lesions of asymptomatic root-filled teeth.

Sunde PT, Olsen I, Gobel UB, Theegarten D, Winter S, Debelian GJ, Tronstad L, Moter A.

Institute of Oral Biology, Dental Faculty, University of Oslo, PB 1052 Blindern, 0316 Oslo, Norway. Institut fur Mikrobiologie und Hygiene, Universitatsklinikum Charite, Humboldt-Universitat zu Berlin, Dorotheenstrasse 96, D-10117 Berlin, Germany. Abteilung fur Pathologie, Ruhr-Universitat Bochum, Universitatsstrasse 150, D-44780 Bochum, Germany. Universitatsklinik fur Mund-, Kiefer- und Plastische Gesichtschirurgie, Knappschafts-Krankenhaus Bochum-Langendreer, In der Schornau 23-25, D-44892 Bochum, Germany.

Microbiology 2003 May;149(Pt 5):1095-1102
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=12724371&dopt=Abstract

Correspondence
Pia T. Sunde
[email protected]

Whether micro-organisms can live in periapical endodontic lesions of asymptomatic teeth is under debate. The aim of the present study was to visualize and identify micro-organisms within periapical lesions directly, using fluorescence in situ hybridization (FISH) in combination with epifluorescence and confocal laser scanning microscopy (CLSM). Thirty-nine periapical lesions were surgically removed, fixed, embedded in cold polymerizing resin and sectioned. The probe EUB 338, specific for the domain Bacteria, was used together with a number of species-specific16S rRNA-directed oligonucleotide probes to identify bacteria. To control non-specific binding of EUB 338, probe NON 338 was used. Alternatively, DAPI (4',6'-diamidino-2-phenylindole) staining was applied to record prokaryotic and eukaryotic DNA in the specimens. Hybridization with NON 338 gave no signals despite background fluorescence of the tissue. The eubacterial probe showed bacteria of different morphotypes in 50 % of the lesions. Rods, spirochaetes and cocci were spread out in areas of the tissue while other parts seemed bacteria-free. Bacteria were also seen to co-aggregate inside the tissue, forming microcolonies. Porphyromonas gingivalis, Prevotella intermedia, Tannerella forsythensis and treponemes of phylogenetic Group I were detected with specific probes. In addition, colonies with Streptococcus spp. were seen in some lesions. A number of morphotypes occurred that could not be identified with the specific probes used, indicating the presence of additional bacterial species. CLSM confirmed that bacteria were located in different layers of the tissue. Accordingly, the FISH technique demonstrated mixed consortia of bacteria consisting of rods, spirochaetes and cocci in asymptomatic periapical lesions of root-filled teeth.

for a ton of info on all pertinent dental infections, including fungi, etc. etc. etc.
http://www.altcorp.com/AffinityLaboratory/rcttreatment.htm