I must say the existence of the cavitations and mercury amalgam toxicity is as controversial in the dental society as Lyme is in the medical community. My local dentist thinks my LLMD and the dentists and surgeons he recommends to diagnose & treat cavitations are in cahoots(sp?) I am working on educating him.

My LLMD, our beloved Dr. C, urged me to explore the possibility of cavitations by having the cavitat ultrasound. I followed his advice and I have just undergone surgery to correct this problem.

One positive outcome of having Lyme - I found out about the cavitations. I probably would have never known otherwise.

Hope you find the answers you are looking for.

Did your dentist use what is called a "rubber dam" when she removed the amalgam? Also, some dentists give charcoal tablets prior to the procedure.

Years ago I had several amalgam fillings replaced with new amalgams. They took no precautions - working with the premise that amalgams are safe. Shortly thereafter, I became severely ill and it tooks me months to overcome being bedbound. I now think the the toxicity of the mercury brought on my illness.

I wish I had known then what I know now. I now have all the amalgam out and I am trying to detox.

"I must say the existence of the cavitations and mercury amalgam toxicity is as controversial in the dental society as Lyme is in the medical community."

Glad you got the mercury out.

Let's hope that our local dentist expert starts at one point to see the light of day -mercury is a neurotoxin that eventually kills. He must know - and was undoubtedly exposed to a lot of it during his working years.

Most root canals turn out to be an even greater disaster, with very few exceptions. Cavitations in the jawbone follow right behind root canals and the patient goes from one chronic cavitation to the next one ending up with multiple dental surgeries if he/she wants to have a chance at getting well.

Lyme Disease and Bartonella affect the jaw very strongly, especially the first molar area. These are accompanied by viral and fungal infections, because microorganisms live in colonies. You try to wipe out one with abx, the other one takes their place. It is a merry-go-round - not very merry for the patient that has to suffer through all this.

The doctor who helped us get well (www.neuraltherapy.com/articles) states readily that he has not seen a Lyme patient with a healthy first molar. Open your mouth - first molar defective - next stop - Lyme infection.

It's time to stop, Doc Dave. No more insults - I do not deserve them. Don't waste your energy. I have seen too many deathly ill patients improve and get well when they paid attention to clearing out mercury and dental infections. It does not happen if the dental condition is ignored and the mercury is ignored. Mercury is a killer whether it comes from amalgam or fish or other exposures. It remains a deadly toxin until it is savely removed from the body. The same goes for the toxins produced by many root canals. The most deadly for the brain.

If you have Lyme and your teeth are a concern, learn:

www.bioprobe.com www.altcorp.com www.healthydetox.org www.neuraltherapy.com/articles

Take care. From one that is now totally well and cured from Lyme - but only after suffering through all that is mentioned above. It was no fun, but it got me totally well, more fit than ever - now already 4 plus years ago.

Go learn and inform yourself - is all I can say.

Take care.

In some patients improvement has been remarkable. He urged me to keep a symptom diary.

Anyway, I was just at my dentist's today, getting 3 crowns put on my teeth, and while I was being worked on he showed me a DVD about mercury amalgam fillings. This DVD was very clear, very scientific and actually SHOWED mercury vaporizing off of filings !!

I'm Sorry DOC, but I'm afraid you are not up to speed on the latest research. Easy to happen when you have lyme disease, and probably mercury toxitity, as I well know scince I cant do my previous profession, engineering, because of these things also.

Go to this web site, www.iaomt.org. The DVD I saw today was called The Smoking Tooth. It can be purchased for $15, and is very informative and shows actual live tests, measurements and studies, as well as commentary by many dentists at the end.

There is a short exerpt of this dvd that you can watch on the web site, as a preview. But the full DVD shows many more tests and precautions to take during removal, etc...

Don't rely on hearsay on this issue, start looking at studies and data and see for yourself. This is one place to start.

Thanks for posting that site. I looked at it and found it very informative.

How do I know this? I have osteomyelitis/osteonecrosis of the jawbone (essentially, infected and dead bone in the jaw). I've had 7 surgeries and only have 12 teeth remaining. Every time I've gone into "remission" from this horrible condition (jawbone OM), my systemic symptoms (many included on your lyme lists) disappeared, only to return as the infection continues to spread (essentially gangrene of the jaw). To those in doubt, every surgery has yielded positive pathology (analysis of the tissue/bone samples by a world expert) for bone infection, and positive cultures of some big time bacteria.

It has been a horrible journey, not only for the daily pain but also because it is an albatross of a diagnosis - the ADA denies this condition exists (for obvious reasons), despite the fact that if one can have a bone infection anywhere else in the body, why not (especially) the jaw? I was told over and over I was "fine", as I didn't have a high fever, any signs of pus on x-rays or bacteria in my blood smears. They were SO wrong. My advice is to read The Roots Of Disease: Connecting Dentistry and Medicine by Dr. Robert Kulacz. It explains how subclinical dental infections can cause widespread symptoms throughout the body. He includes case studies and backs the literature with facts and data at the back of the book.

How do I know this? I have osteomyelitis/osteonecrosis of the jawbone (essentially, infected and dead bone in the jaw). I've had 7 surgeries and only have 12 teeth remaining. Every time I've gone into "remission" from this horrible condition (jawbone OM), my systemic symptoms (many included on your lyme lists) disappeared, only to return as the infection continues to spread (essentially gangrene of the jaw). To those in doubt, every surgery has yielded positive pathology (analysis of the tissue/bone samples by a world expert) for bone infection, and positive cultures of some big time bacteria.

It has been a horrible journey, not only for the daily pain but also because it is an albatross of a diagnosis - the ADA denies this condition exists (for obvious reasons), despite the fact that if one can have a bone infection anywhere else in the body, why not (especially) the jaw? I was told over and over I was "fine", as I didn't have a high fever, any signs of pus on x-rays or bacteria in my blood smears. They were SO wrong. My advice is to read The Roots Of Disease: Connecting Dentistry and Medicine by Dr. Robert Kulacz. It explains how subclinical dental infections can cause widespread symptoms throughout the body. He includes case studies and backs the literature with facts and data at the back of the book.

How do I know this? I have osteomyelitis/osteonecrosis of the jawbone (essentially, infected and dead bone in the jaw). I've had 7 surgeries and only have 12 teeth remaining. Every time I've gone into "remission" from this horrible condition (jawbone OM), my systemic symptoms (many included on your lyme lists) disappeared, only to return as the infection continues to spread (essentially gangrene of the jaw). To those in doubt, every surgery has yielded positive pathology (analysis of the tissue/bone samples by a world expert) for bone infection, and positive cultures of some big time bacteria.

It has been a horrible journey, not only for the daily pain but also because it is an albatross of a diagnosis - the ADA denies this condition exists (for obvious reasons), despite the fact that if one can have a bone infection anywhere else in the body, why not (especially) the jaw? I was told over and over I was "fine", as I didn't have a high fever, any signs of pus on x-rays or bacteria in my blood smears. They were SO wrong. My advice is to read The Roots Of Disease: Connecting Dentistry and Medicine by Dr. Robert Kulacz. It explains how subclinical dental infections can cause widespread symptoms throughout the body. He includes case studies and backs the literature with facts and data at the back of the book.

How do I know this? I have osteomyelitis/osteonecrosis of the jawbone (essentially, infected and dead bone in the jaw). I've had 7 surgeries and only have 12 teeth remaining. Every time I've gone into "remission" from this horrible condition (jawbone OM), my systemic symptoms (many included on your lyme lists) disappeared, only to return as the infection continues to spread (essentially gangrene of the jaw). To those in doubt, every surgery has yielded positive pathology (analysis of the tissue/bone samples by a world expert) for bone infection, and positive cultures of some big time bacteria.

It has been a horrible journey, not only for the daily pain but also because it is an albatross of a diagnosis - the ADA denies this condition exists (for obvious reasons), despite the fact that if one can have a bone infection anywhere else in the body, why not (especially) the jaw? I was told over and over I was "fine", as I didn't have a high fever, any signs of pus on x-rays or bacteria in my blood smears. They were SO wrong. My advice is to read The Roots Of Disease: Connecting Dentistry and Medicine by Dr. Robert Kulacz. It explains how subclinical dental infections can cause widespread symptoms throughout the body. He includes case studies and backs the literature with facts and data at the back of the book.

Does anyone know anything about cavitations being treated non surgically with intra osseous injections? I have a few root canals and would prefer the injections over surgery?

I just had an amalgam removed and replaced by composite the other day.

They used no precaution other then suction.
From what I know the metal isint really absorbed when I swallow it. ....?

Anyway I went to a naturopath years ago and he warned me that before I had my LARGE amalgam drilled out that I should recondider it.

He said I would need IV, O2, Chrarcol, DSM
all that business.

My LLMD said not to worry about it. He even tested my teeth with some machine to see if there were any that might pose a problem.

They all came out fine.

The naturopath also said that after having it drilled out I would notice a herxheimer type reaction. Or worse.

I had it out and I noticed nothing. There was metal spray going all over the place and pieces of the filling in my mouth.
I was concerned about the mercury, but

I think my body is holding more toxins from the bacteria then anything else. Its part of the picture but theres no way of telling how much.

For every story that GIGI has about someone getting well after chelation there are 2 of those who didt.

Why not scroll up this thread alittle and go to the web site I mentioned and look at the smoking tooth ? The full report, with lots of interviews with dentists, is $15 and can be ordered there. Ive seen it, my dentist has seen it, it is preety compelling.

I would love some feedback on these tests and data. Seems lots better than opinions. Why dont you guys go to that site and then tell me what you think?

"For every story that GIGI has about someone getting well after chelation there are 2 of those who didt"

that's right, absolutely. Chelation can take one or two years or three and four. I have always said that it is a tricky undertaking and should be done with the help of a knowledgable physician that has done it many times. They are hard to find!!! Not all patients are able to release toxic substances - read www.neuraltherapy.com/articles. Don't miss the remarks about unresolved emotional conflicts. Healing takes place on many levels - not just the biochemical.

You will know if you are well when you are symptom-free! And it takes a lot of smarts and work on the part of the patient and the dentist/doctor. Very few dentists do it, because it is very time-consuming and many do not have the knowhow.

Tickalert,

from my own experience, the injections do nothing to alleviate the problems. I wished it were so. I had 12 root canals. Be sure you do a search on yahoo on Bob Jones, the inventor of the CAVITAT, and read on www.altcorp.com/dentalinformation/rootcanals.
etc. That site has much information.

See TOPAS test for root canals. Done in the chair, after agitating the tooth a little as if you had just been chewing, etc., at little cost. Then you will know how healthy they are.

Take care.

With all due respect for the opinions of those apparently contradicting docdave, I have to side with docdaves judgement which is supported by maxima's account of whats going on and measures taken.

Reasons:

1.there was a flare up after dental work. first thing I'd assume is infection, since tissue integrity was compromised. the mouth contains countless bacteria of inmumerable kind(s) and "40" strains of each kind. They get into tissue and cause infection.

2.0 According to the post,Minocin was already in the system and the dose was increased, and appartently did not work.

2.1 two other abx were tried and failed to quell the infection.

Interpretation:

Infection.

All above abx were inappropriate because they did not do the job. Assuming an infection is the wisest diagnostic decision. The field of dentistry found out that clindamycin was the most appropriate abx for the kind of bacteria causing the infection--namely, I think, specific kind(s) of anerobic bacteria---against which, amoxicillin and zithromax, etc. are ineffectual.
Yes, amoxicillin is for the heart, in this case, but clindamycin is the best abx in this case. I'm a case in point that didn't die from a midfacial infection, as did a 15 y.o. teenager just 4-6 months ago, and which death was broadcast over the major tv networks. I didn't die because I ate clindamycin.

If you guys were dentists, and did NOT give clindamycin, you would be in prison for homicide, because maxima would have died if you advice were strictly followed.

The metals, and other dental issues in this case were secondary to the infection for which clindamycin is indicated.

Think before you spray docdave with the verbal "uzi".

Klinghardt, et.al. if they were dentists, would have given maxima clindamycin, and addressed the other issues after the immediate problem was fully resolved---like weeks later.

If maxima were to have done a metals challenge test concurrentlyu with the immediate problem, AND gave clindamycin, you would have mobilized a lot of metals from storage into the blood stream, and other tissue spaces. Hypothetically, the metals would then be free to bind the clindamycin,thereby rendering it either useless, or potentiated its activity to a life-threatening/fatal degree, and perhaps o/w have compromised the delivery of clindamycin to the targeted infected sites.

I have ONLY stated my experiences and my belief in this matter. It is entirely up to the individual to decide for themselves what is best for them. I have no authorization to advise anyone as to what to do. My only recommendation in this matter is - RESEARCH AND EDUCATE YOURSELF; period.

Like I stated earlier, there is a hugh controversy in the dental community regarding these issues. However, it does seem that a growing number of health care professionals are taking the road less traveled in an increasing number - in the medical, as well as the dental community.

I suppose this will have to be chalked up to personal prefference.

My dentist who has a mouth full of silver and also "had" Lyme with his entire family says, "DO NOT TAKE THEM OUT IF YOU DON'T NEED TO."

He is the best dentist I ever had in my life. He told me to save my money.

I used to have constant jaw and tooth pain along with my headaches. The pain is virtually non existant in my jaw after 6 months of rx treatment.

with all due respect for your experience, which i did not read but will later,you seem to miss the point in maxima's case.

whether or not the other dental issues are just as legitimate as docdave's opinion of the other issues, maxima's account of his/her own situation confirms docdave's diagnostic call, and that is that there was :

an infection, as maxima stated that the flare-up went down upon use of clindamycin,the other abx having failed to quell the flare-up.

Even if maxima's and your dental issues were the exact same thing, the infection, which , post flare-up administration of clindamycin confirmed by virtue of the fact that the flare subsided, the priority dental issue, in this case is to treat the supposed infection.

if one did a "wait-and-see," and waited for a return of a bacterial culture, there would be more suffering, by which time the probability of midfacial infection will have increased, and so death of maxima; the other dental issues(metals) had to wait.

My comments were in generalities, as were most of the others directed at mercury toxicity, root canals, cavitations, etc.
Whether they cause a problem to a person - that person must decide after evaluating all.

Until then, I will stick to my guns and say
mercury does not belong in the mouth. Steere is never going to admit that Lyme is a huge problem and neither are the dentists and the American Dental Association, who need to protect themselves. An Amalgam Scandal would put all the Tobacco Scandals to shame. Whether a person has one amalgam filling, or five, or eight as is really the case, doesn't make much of a difference.

Just removing the fillings does not change the picture a whole lot, because the mercury has in the meanwhile escaped from the filling and moved to other areas of the body - the brain, jaw, pelvic areas and feet. These areas of the body need to be detoxed and that is not an easy task.

I am not quoting all the sources of research, because it is readily available on the internet and I have repeatedly quoted hundreds of them here before.

I agree - do read all you can and then use common sense. Common sense is not very common these days. Mercury is toxic to the human body and does not belong there. It really does not belong there if you are trying to heal from Lyme Disease and all the microorganism overgrowth that comes with it, or from any chronic disease - whatever your diagnosis.

I am very happy that the educated doctor is trying to choose his language a bit more carefully. I for one dislike dirty language and and it really does not belong here.

Take care.

Amalgam Company loses in California Surperior Court.

Dental Warning: Jeneric Pentron, Inc., a Connecticut based manufacturer of silver-mercury amalgam dental fillings, the world's most common filling for teeth has agreed to comply with California's Proposition 65 toxicity warning laws according to James Wheaton of the Environmental Law Foundation in Oakland, California.

In a settlement agreement entered in San Francisco Superior Court on December 14, 1993, Jeneric Pentron, one of the Nation's largest manufactureers of silver-mercury amalgam dental fillings material, has agreed to publish the following warning to dental patients, dentistis and their staff.

W A R N I N G -
This dental office uses amalgam filling materials which contain and expose you to mercury, a chemical known to the State of California to cause birth defects and other reproductive harm. Please consult your dentist for more information.

In her brief, Julie Duncan of the Environmental Law Foundation also stated that the research implicates not only the mother's exposure, but the father's exposure to amalgam as a cause of spontaneous abortion. The following is excerpted from the Environmental Law Foundation brief:

"Mercury exposure has been linked to a variety of reproductive disorders, including birth defects. Elemental mercury transfers rapidly from the blood to the brain and moves readily across the placenta to the fetus." In addition, menstrual disorders related to exposure to mercury havew been reported. Researches have linked elevated levels of mercury in female dental workers to reproductive failure, including increased frequency of spontaneous abortion and menstrual cycle disorders. Cordier, et al observed an increased rate of spontaneous abortions associated with paternal exposure to mercury. They found a dose-related connection between exposure of the father to mercury before the mother's pgrenancy and the incidence of spontaneous abortion.

(not copied the references.)

Jeneric/Pentron will place the warning on all containers of its amalgam shipped to California or delivered to a dental office in California beginning within 45 dfays of the settlement. In addition, Jeneric-Pentron will send a warning sign to each dental office in California which has purchased Jeneric/Pentron's amalgam since July 1, 1001 along with an instruction letter and a response card for the dentist to fill out and return. The instruction letter from Jeneric/Pentron will request that the dentist "immediately post this sign in your office's waiting area in such a mannger as to assure that it will be seen and read by your patients" and return the response card certifying that the dentist has done so. Jeneric/Pentron also agreed to stop selling silver-amalgam fillings to dentist who do not post the hazard warning sign in their waiting rooms.

"This is a milestone for California dental consumers" aid Wheaton. "For the first time, people will have an opportunity to learn that a known reproductive toxin is being placed in their mouths by dentists BEFORE it happens. There are alternatives to silver-mercury amalgam fillings and we hope these warnings will prompt patients to ask their dentists about options before agreeing to have silver/mercury fillings place in their mouths. Jeneric/Pentron is a responsible corporate citizen by complying with Proposition 65. Warning dental patients is not just a good idea ... it's the law."

You are correct in that this thread did take a different angle than was originally intended, perhaps. The stated difficulty with the root canal, and the fact that deep-seated infections are often associated with osteonecrotic bone lesions, does lead one to surmise that this could possibly be, in part, an underlying etiology in the exacerbation of symptoms. It's just a hypothesis to explore; as is the amalgam issue.

As far as antibiotics and dental work - I think they are, most definately, of value. I also agree it must be the right drug, at the right dose, and in a timely manner. DocDave is the expert in that field. As well, the prophylactic use of antibiotics in high risk patients is strongly advised. I totally concur.

**************
We all have different opinions on the amalgam and cavitation issue. Each has to decide for themselves which position they choose to take.

We should just agree to disagree in harmony. I respect the opinions of all, even though they differ from mine.

We should be about the business of supporting and encouraging each other.

I think DocDave's last post can serve as a good coda for this thread.

pq

First I'd like to give some facts on mercury poisoning:

1. The ADA admits that the average person with dental amalgam is exposed to 1-3ug of mercury a day via evaporation. (Its on their website about half way down this laughable Facts V Myths page http://www.ada.org/public/media/releases/0207_release01.asp)

2. The WHO estimates this exposure to be 3-10ug a day.

3. There is no established safe lower limit of exposure to mercury (according to Prof. Maths Berlin, a leading expert on mercury's effects on the body in his report to the Swedish government regarding amalgam safety: available here http://www.iaomt.org//articledetails.cfm?artid=149)

4. There is no established and accepted test for determining the body's mercury load. The implication of this is that the majority of studies done into amalgam safety, regardless of positive or negative outcome are severly flawed. In short - noone really knows if they are safe or not cos noone has tested it properly.

My personal experience is that the convnetional treatments for mercury poisoning made me sicker. Everyone has an opinion on this subject - 99.9% of them have not got a clue what they are talking about. Eventually I heard of a guy called Andy Cutler who is a Phd research chemist who had mercury poisoning , read up on it and treated himself. I bought his book and have been treating myself according to his protocol which appears to be working so far. I feel much healthier now than I ahve done in a long time.

His website is www.noamalgam.com. You can discuss it further with people who are actually using his protocol the yahoo group. Adult-Metal-Chelation (http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/adult-metal-chelation/)

In response to your question, I would suggest contacting your surgeon ASAP to inform him of this ongoing problem.

Reading it did help me to see that my doctors cavilier attitude about heavy metal treatment, oh, just take some ALA.... is not sufficient and could be harmful. The book details a much more thoughtful approach and would be something to share with your doctor IF you have a problem with mercury toxitity.

It has a lot of information to help you try to figure out if you do have a high mercury load...something that is not easily established. And it reminds the reader that you do want to establish this--why do troublesome expensive treatment if it is not your problem ?

Not everyone who has mercury fillings has a toxic mercury load. Some bodies process it out efficiently on their own. But, some dont. And, if you dont, it will make you sick and lower your immune response to bacteria etc... and keep you from getting well.

I do highly recomend this book as a level headed approach to the toxity topic, even though parts are very detailed/scientific and hard for this lyme brain to follow, I just gloss over that stuff and read the rest.

however it can always be added to....