I take a soma at 9pm and 300mg neurontin + xanax at bedtime. It's not holding me. Generally this combination lasts for around 8 hours, most nights.

I suspect the neurontin isn't doing it's part and perhaps my system isn't acid enough, as it likes an acid environment. Should I take vitC just before the neurontin? Will that change the acid in the stomache? (Is there something I can eat?)

I've tried most sleeping pills and they don't work, many make me more awake. While others will give me 3.5 hrs. I tried lunesta one night a few weeks ago and it did the 3.5 hr thing and left me very groggy.

What else can I do in the meantime. I have a few things in the house. (Valerian for example.)

I desperately need to increase the amount of hours. I'm sooooo tired and shaky all the time. Just a little more would be great.

I've gone through spells like this before, I just want a few nights of sleep. (For instance one would be a start.) So I can function for a few days.

Arrgh! Please any and all suggestions gratefully recieved.

*yawns repeatedly*

Thanks Doc Dave, I'm glad you're still here!

I'm trying to think of something I may have laying around the house to get me through until I see the doc again. I may just have to add another .5mg to my xanax. I hate to keep raising it as it's one of the few things that works and don't want ot lose that. I've got permission to go to 2 mgs though, taking 1.5 now.

I'd be so much less whiney if I had a nap.

This sounds like what my body wants to do, right now. (It's a very good idea.) It would feel right for this kind of shakiness.

Ok, I'm getting off the computer and giving it a try. It's still morning here; it's not too late to save the day.

OT: Out of curiosity are you 6 hours ahead, of forum time, in the Netherlands? I was speaking to someone there a few weeks ago about lyme and she said it was uncommon. I wonder if she just had no idea like many people I speak to here.

A prescription combination of 5HTP and l-tryptophan. Herb capsules such as valerian, passionflower or catnip. Melatonin 3mg sublingual.Steve rotates between these things as sometimes one works and sometimes something else. He usually ends up taking at least 3 things on this list every night.

His problem is that whatever he takes only kepps him asleep for 2 hours at a time usually and then he has to go to the bathroom.

If he sleeps for a longer period of time he wants up stiff and the tremors and seizure-like episodes are triggered by movement.I have to give him IV Ativan for this and it keeps him awake instead of putting him to sleep.

I would suggest testing your neurotransmitters and /or amino acid levels. The zanax will not continue to work long-term even at higher doses.

One other thing I have found that helps my husband is ginger tea -- I use 1/2 teaspoon with a little stevia in a cup of warm water

Good night,

Jordan is taking it now and it's working better than anything he has tried. He takes 100 mg at bedtime.

------------------

Hope you had a good sleep! I can relate to your "sleep pattern".

I am (6 months now) taking Triazolam 0.25MG (1 before bed), seems to be doing the trick. I, also, take Soma (muscle relaxer) 350MG tid (3xperday).

I had already tried (Rhuemy Rx'd) Trazadone 50MG (antidepressant/sleep aid)...worked great at first, it was a good quick fix.

Had to up it after 3 months to 100 MG before bed, as it lost it's effectiveness. Took it for a total of 4 months.

Here's a good site "The Mind Meal"

(I know...I know, Carbs aren't the best choice for 'us Lymies" (so don't jump on me folks) but there's still good info at this site...

http://tinyurl.com/a5bgq

The ingredients of the Mind Meal include foods with valuable vitamins, minerals and essential fats important for emotional and mental health. Also, what the Mind Meal doesn't include is just as important as what it does contain.

The Mind Meal DOES NOT contain:

Artificial additives which can cause a range of food sensitivity reactions in certain people

Added sugar that can give a sudden blood sugar rise followed by a dip in mood and energy an hour or so later. Sugar sensitivity can produce symptoms of confusion, poor concentration, anxiety, irritability, aggression, fatigue and depression.

Stimulants such as chocolate or caffeine which can be associated with feelings of anxiety or panic attacks in vulnerable people

Wheat or dairy foods, as these are the two most common culprit foods associated with food sensitivities associated with food sensitivities and have been associated with depression and fatigue, for example

The Mind Meal DOES contain:

Good mood protein, including tryptophan, is concentrated in the oil rich fish, nuts and seeds and also in the avocado and dried apricots.

Protein is made up of fragments known as amino acids. Some amino acids can have a direct affect on levels of certain brain chemicals.

For example, eating foods naturally high in tryptophan can improve mood as the tryptophan is converted by the body to serotonin, an important brain chemical that regulates impulse control and appetite,

elevates mood, self-esteem, feelings of optimism and induces calm feelings and sleep. (The banana and avocado also provide some ready-made serotonin.)

Good mood carbohydrates are concentrated in the pasta, oatcakes and fruit.

The absorption of tryptophan into the brain is thought to be greatly enhanced by eating carbohydrate-containing foods and carbohydrate cravings have been explained as a subconscious drive to increase serotonin levels.

Carbohydrates that are slow releasing can help the absorption of the tryptophan across the blood brain barrier without creating a rebound hypoglycaemic dip. The oats are particularly important because they have a low Glycaemic Index.

Eating foods and meals with a low GI, which release their energy slowly and keep you feeling good for longer, also helps to avoid the roller coaster ride of energy and moods associated with large fluctuations in blood glucose levels.

The natural sugars in the fruit have a gentler effect on the blood sugar levels than added, refined sugar.

Good mood fats are contained in the oil rich fish, nuts and seeds.

The brain is over 60% fat. Avoiding all types of fat - in a low fat diet for example - can lead to anxiety and depression and other mental health problems.

Polyunsaturated `omega 3' fats are particularly important and these are particularly high in the oily rich fish and also present in the pumpkin seeds and walnuts.

You need to keep a balance between the omega 3 fats and the other essential `omega 6' fats which, in the Mind Meal are found in the nuts and seeds.

Hope this helps, it seems I have the same sleep cycle you have.

Good luck! Catch 'cha later,
And 'Sweet Dreams!
~laserred~

I think, thank you for all the input may be appropriate, though.

I have a few questions:

Bea Seibert ~

quote:

---

I would suggest testing your neurotransmitters and /or amino acid levels.

---

Who does this and how is it done?
Sorry, I'm so out of my league, here. I understand what that means but little more. Gosh, I hope that didn't sound rude, that wasn't my intent.

I've never tried ginger tea. Does it calm you like it calms the stomache? I'm curious.
..................................................
I've been doing this sleep management thing for a very long time. I've been through a bunch of sleeping pills, herbal combinations, etc... every few years I move onto something else. All worked at some point.

My present combination works most of the time. It's not perfect but usually keeps me asleep most of the night. I may be groggy afterward but at least I'm still for a while.
..................................................
pab, laserred and too ~
I've had particularly bad luck with anti-depressants, trazadone included. It's a shame. I took the first dose and it made me drowsy. Yay! Crawled into bed and the damned thing reversed and I was up all night.
..................................................
I do seem to do well on benzodiazapines, for now anyway.

And perhaps when I start treatment it'll straighten out eventually. For instance I sleep very well on bicillin (and not at all on biaxin).

Liz ~
I don't know anything about Rifampin; does it have that effect on others as well?

I'm waiting until all my test are in to see what and how we're going to treat.

laserred ~ I didn't know they were making halcion again. See what happens when you're out of the loop.

And thanks for the link, very interesting. I'm not planning on cooking anythime soon. Want to come over and cook for me?

Ms tutu ~ Yeah, the neurontin is low. I was taking 4 or 5(300s)/day at one time. For about a year, once it stopped working for peripheral neuropathy, I cut it out.

I just take the one at night because it USUALLY makes me groggy enough to fall back to sleep when I wake during the night.

And it suppresses the urge to urinate so you don't have to get up if you wake. I'm not sure if that is really a good thing but it is convenient.

Janet ~ thanks and did we miss the big thing, yet? (somehow that sounds so wrong.)

I am very tired and realize I may not be making much sense. Thanks all!

I'll try again tonight. I have an enormous amount of crap hangin over my head right now and I realize it's not helping the situation.

Hey did I say thanks recently? I also appreciate having people listen to what I'm saying it's been a while.

I better go...

For me the meds I have tried is like
bringing a knife to a gun fight.

The few nights that I have gotten sleep
threw the years made a big differnce
mental sharpness.
For me the sleep switch will not flip.
There are many times that I am awake
for 2 or 3 days at a time- and then
get 1 hour the next night-ouch-
Before I got sick I slept like a baby.

A really weird thing I have noticed
is if I drink a glass of hot tea
at just the right time- some times
I will get 3 or 4 hours of uninterupted
sleep and be able to fall to sleep again
at some point. Crazy
I dont drink coffie- or cokes

My brain feel like its 90% fat most
of the time --Jay--

But the neurontin helps you STAY asleep. That's a biggie!

How about melatonin?

Dr C does neurotransmitter testing.

He said, "Cool, then it's working! Give it a few days". That was on 12.5mg and 4 xanax/day.

Melatonin I tried a long time ago, probably when I was around 36. After it kept me awake for 4 days I stoppped. I may have been too young and it might work now.

[i]Perhaps I should have mentioned I had the same reaction to Zantac, the one for stomache acid.

Took it at bedtime, stayed up all night wired with palpitations. Came home from work the next day, stayed up until a normal bedtime. I was sooo tired, took the pill, stayed up all night again.

In the morning I called the phaemacy to ask if that could happen. They looked it up and said, "yes, but it's extremely rare".[\i]

I take 5 trazodone tablets!

I've read that if you take too much melatonin, it will keep you awake.

It's around 20 years. I had trouble falling asleep while younger but never staying asleep.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lymetoo:
Don't you just love being RARE!?

I take 5 trazodone tablets!

I've read that if you take too much melatonin, it will keep you awake.

---

I could do with being less RARE (maybe well done) once in a while.

Even my regular doctors question when I tell then I have to start everything at a pediatric dosage. (I can't take children's benedryl at night either.)

Heh, not only that I went to an accupuncturist and she GOT the hyper-senstive piece and still left the needles in too long.

Everything was so intense afterwards and kept getting more so until I started to panic. I think it was one of "the flashbacks they all warned us would come".

Dang, when you least expect it and don't get to enjoy it.

*shakes head*

1. Have you ever had a sleep study done?? These are beneficial to rule out things like sleep apnea and such.

2. Trazadone did help me a lot but I didn't like the dependence on it. Tylenol nightime helped me too.

3. Are you taking any of your pills right at bedtime? Im just wondering if you try taking them a little earlier then maybe your system will have a chance to "settle down" before you go to sleep.

I hope you get some good rest soon.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nal:
Im not sleeping well either so heres a big hug to you ((((((((((hug)))))))))). Right now though I think mine is stress related but i have had major sleep issues in the past. Sorry if I repeat some of the info or questions here-my brain is tired.

1. Have you ever had a sleep study done?? These are beneficial to rule out things like sleep apnea and such.

I hope you get some good rest soon.

Nancy

---

Mine's fairly stress related at the moment too. Stuff's just been raining down. The fun never ends of late.

In answer to question #1
Yes, I have had a sleep study, in 1996, though. They made no recommendations other than to try ambien which I had already been taking.

Basically it said this:
Sleep Data: There was a significant decrease in total sleep time with a moderate decrease in sleep efficiency. Sleep onset latency was prolonged. Latency to REM was not prolonged.

There was distortion of sleep architecture with a significant increase in stage 1 sleep. The amount of REM sleep was within normal limits.

They found an insignificant number of breathing events. It says only 13 and all were hypopneas. No apnea. There was some alpha intrusion seen during REM sleep, however not to a marked degree.

Periodic leg movements but not seeming to cause a significant number of arousals.

There didn't seem to be any significant or worrisome arrythmias. Heart rate varied from 50 to 98.

Basically, a non-committal report, the doc that ordered it was not happy with the interpretation but never followed up, to get a new one.

He felt this was significant, in some way but I don't know what. I think the center I had it done at only wanted to deal with apnea. Natch, I didn't fit into their neat little package.

Sorry, I got carried away, maybe someone understands if that means anything. To me it means I sleep badly and am not rested.

3. I take my meds a while before bedtime. Like I just did and figure on being awake a little while. I can fall asleep with these; just can't get into a second cycle of late.

With nothing I'm up every 1 to 1.5 hrs. So annoying, better to take the pills.

More hugs and let's get some sleep. I just know hugs gotta help.
Have a good night!

My issue used to be just staying asleep, but now I have trouble falling aslepp as well because of my pain.

I have seen neurontin mentioned before. What is it?

quote:

---

Originally posted by bigmamma:
My issue used to be just staying asleep, but now I have trouble falling aslepp as well because of my pain.

I have seen neurontin mentioned before. What is it?

---

It's used off label for peripheral neuropathy. It's quite mind numbing stuff, really, but seems to leave me groggy most times so I can fall back to sleep. (A bizarre side effect I think.)

I could sleep all day and night while on higher doses but also had the munchies contantly. lol, finally lost the weight after cutting it back. I've been afraid to cut the night dose for fear of never getting enough hours in.

For some reason the xanax relieves my pain enough to allow me to fall asleep. I think my muscles just need to relax so I can get comfortable enough to fall out. The bed doesn't hurt then. I sleep with a million pillows. It's funny really.

What did the doctor give you to try for 4 nights? Did it work? If so, see if he'll/she'll give you more. (Worth asking at the very least.) Lyme without proper rest is much worse.

I'm sending you sleep inducing ((((hugs)))) bigmamma.

quote:

---

Originally posted by trueblue:

laserred ~ I didn't know they were making halcion again. See what happens when you're out of the loop.

And thanks for the link, very interesting. I'm not planning on cooking anythime soon. Want to come over and cook for me?

---

Hey blue,
It sounds like you know a whole lot more on this sleep thing, that I don't think I'd ever have time to learn, in what's left in my lifetime, and that could be a 'good' forty years! (Thinking positive here )

As far as 'Halcion'??? I didn't know they quit :confused, was it pulled for a reason or two??? I'm guessing that is another name for Triazalone I'll have to look that one up!

Well, I hope you start getting some sleep soon, that is H***! I wish I could come over and cook for you, but heck, I don't even cook for my self

I'm a convenience cook, 'I cook when it's convenient', and that don't look anytime soon! I don't mind it, I just rarely do it.

Hey, I can send ya take out What do you prefer?

Take out is a God sent! I love Subway! And this is a big tourist area, so we have a lot of really good resturants in the area, but, us locals tend to stay out of them from May til September, too long a wait.

(I want it and I want it now!...Ha!)

I hope you are able to get some good sleep tonight! I think my psleep meds just kicked in, didn't take a nap today Once last I went I too bed with out my sleepimg meds and 'liad there: for 4 hours, well now I know I can't give them up too very soon...Ha!

I tried it a few times when it first came out. (late 80s eary 90s?) I wasn't taking sleep meds regular in those days.

Then there was fuss and it was pulled, they were saying amnesia, blah, blah, blah. Oh for goodness sake it's a sleeping pill, that can happen with any of them.

Anyhoo, I guess it was brought back because now it's generic. Is it at least resonably priced as a generic?

Hmmm...food...hungry.
Our busy season just ended, we've got the october to april shift. So it's safe to go to restaurants at normalish times now. Instead of supper at 4 to beat the flocks of snowbirds. A lot of our restaurants are not good, so you have to experiment.

The truth is I'm addicted to almond butter and eat it when ever I can't think of something else. Like now, I hear it calling to me...

One or two .25 xanax or good ol' benadyrl. Man i love those benadryl sleeps. It does make you very groggy in the morning.

Still the sleep on ibenadyrl is so deep.

Weirdly, benedryl makes me sleepy during the day and keeps me up all night. Although, there's very little that doesn't keep me awake lately.